Liberal Morality

Fiery Balls, Jose, Backassward Henri --

Any "First Responder" who has helped remove the bloody body of a teenage girl from the backseat of a car midway between the abortion mill where she was butchered and the only hospital ER in the area can tell you all-know Neo Cons a thing or two onthe subject.

From the perspective of the "average" 40-70 year old American male with "Average" values living an "Average" American life -- in a 40 story high rise apartment building in central Manhattan, a Levitt-town type suburb outside any major urban center or even rural cities of 20,000 population or more -- Abortion should be the last resort.

Realistically, I have never met a PREGNANT "Average" 40-70 year old American male with "Average" values living an "Average" American life anywhere.

If you find him, both your fortunes are made.

Hey, P.T. Barnum will be a midget in comparison.

Let's make a deal -- You folks extend yourselves to prevent any Average American Male from having an abortion procedure performed on his Pregnant body.

As an admitted "Old Male ****" -- I'll grant you the right to impose that restriction my carcass. Can't imagine why anyone would want the power to make such a decision, but permission granted.

Just keep your personal value system, folkways and mores, superstitions and foibles, prejudices and fantasies off the young women in my family -- and their bodies.

I don't have the right to give orders to them regarding their bodies, when married their husbands should have a voice in the decision, but it is not my body, it sure as thunder is not yours -- and after U.S. conservatives have steadfastly opposed the stopping of genocide on at least four continents in my lifetime -- I really don't see what gives them any moral authority in this matter.

If Conservatives could not understand the importance of stopping genocide in Europe, Russia, Asia, South and Central America and virtually every part of Africa -- I can't see where they have earned moral to give orderw to anyone in the U.S. regarding legal abortion.

Liberal morality is an oxymoron. Morality does not allow one human to murder another due to location and dependence.

Liberals don't legislate morality...unless you count diversity as "morality," or anti-Christian rules as "morality," or non-smoking, or seat belt laws, or preservation of bugs at the expense of humans, or the promotion of free speech that includes filth, etc. etc.

Liberal "morality" says that people shouldn't be judged on the way they live...unless those people happen to be conservatives, or especially Christian conservatives. Then they should be shouted down, silenced, banned from speaking in public areas, and even have no right to certain speech on the privately owned grounds of their church. They should have no say in government, no say in the education of their children, and no say in the leftist brainwashing prevalent in colleges.

The fact is that liberal are blind to their own hypocrisy, and to their overwhelming intolerance for any that disagree.

Anyone that doubts this can quickly find masses of evidence on DemocraticUnderground.com or DailyKOs. Enjoy.

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It is true that Democrats seldom get into real trouble over moral issues. A person has to HAVE morals before they can break them.

Joe I have a quick question for you well maybe a response we'll see where I go with it. You keep going on and on about the two wars going on that no one wants. The last time I checked the United States is drawing down the level of troops in Iraq with a timetable (there's that dirty hippie word from the 00s) of being completely out by 2011 still looking good.

As was preached to the masses for the last four years of the previous administration we can not just pull every troop out at once it has to be a gradual draw down. As it was always put to me when I was a child and I assume it was to you and I paraphrase: We broke it, we fix it.

While I do not support the decision of sending more troops into Afghanistan all that Obama is simply is completing the war the previous administration started and never finished.

So the question I guess is what is the other war other than Afghanistan you are talking about?

MrsSmith you sure are quick to attack Democrats for their "overwhelming intolerance for any that disagree" and yet right about that statement and below it you lumped EVERY single Democrat and EVERY single liberal into one little group of immorals which is a classic case of overwhelming intolerance for any that disagree.

But then again on this website one person can classify an entire group of people as immoral with no proof to back that up but their own misguided judgments (MrsSmith) and someone else will wildly applaud them for their intolerance as if they had just made a statement that has not been made a multitude of times on this website, conservative websites, conservative radio, and Fox News (Joe Buck).

I love the predictability you guys give to me knowing exactly what you are going to say.

If you'll take notice Joe I never once said that it was restricted to conservatives. You will not see that once in anything on this blog. I was simply referring MrsSmith blindly calling an entire group of people immoral and then you applauding her. It's called an example Joe. Wow! Sorry that I apparently did not use the example you wanted.

"Mike, completely out by 2011 is not what was promised (lied) during the campaign" - Joe

You do not honestly believe every line that is fed to you during a campaign do you Joe? If so you must be really really new to this game called politics.

I agree with you on not being able to fix the problems that have existed for thousands of years but that's not what I or any Democrat has every talked about fixing. I seriously doubt that is what the Bush Administration was talking about. The mess I am talking about is all the bombed out buildings that we bombed, the bombed out infrastructure that we bombed. Yes, Joe I am talking about the mess we created when we invaded a sovereign country. I do not know why you choose to ignore the mess we made instead choosing to talk about the mess that was already there, but that's not what I am talking about. That mess is an internal issue that only Iraqis can fix.

MrsSmith, not to beat a dead horse (as I have asked you to do this before with no results0 but can you provide some proof where conservative churches are being directed what they can and can not say (now granted they are limited by their tax-exempt status) but I seem to recall a pastor in the southwest that wanted his followers to prayer for Obama's death. The last time I checked he is still the pastor and that church still has it's exempt status.

Also, once again, can you provide some proof of the leftist brainwashing going on in colleges? the last time I checked the more educated a person is they actually tend to be more conservative. Now you have to assume (not really) that to be more educated you have to go to college so does that not sort of hurt your argument? Also in survey after survey college students report that their conservative teachers are much more likely to press their ideology in class than liberal professors.

I do not know of anyone who has ever demanded that conservatives be kept from speaking out in public (and I am pretty sure that the Tea Partiers may be surprised at that as well).

Conservative, liberal, moderate parents should have a say in their child's education but no parent should drive the curriculum.

I am also still waiting for these rights you all keep telling us that Obama is going to strip away rights. What's going on with that?

"we are fighting two wars, financed by debt, and managed by the current administration, who could and should get out of both immediately, but don't want to!," Jose de Bucko.

Every NeoCon who believes NATO and the U.S. should walk away from Afghan/Pak-istan --

Can help the cause by advising NATO headquarters you are volunteering your property for Al Qaeda to park a shipping container holding a Pakistani nuclear warhead.

Just think of your place in history -- well vaporized!!!

Jose -- The ultimate super-patriot gesture!!!!

Keep getting declined encouraging you Super-Patriots to secure the necessary training and volunteer with local law enforcement.

Somehow a NeoCon's "after work" time is much more precious than some moderate or progressive parent's time, so that precludes El Neo Conista from volunteering to ride Shotgun through the "Railroad Avenue" bar scene Saturday evenings and nights.

While you Granite Domed experts are condemning President Obama for not leaving Iraq and Afghanistan immediately -- Give a little consideration to the Texas Drunk and the Draft Dodgers who got us in there in the first place so they could divert billions to their oil patch cronies.

Research the latest Iraq Fraud audit reports.

In that class of NO Bid, Non-Competitive Contract -- Auditors are finding close to 100% fraud activity in billing.

Now reports are coming in of Contractor Executives filling Duffel Bags with $100 and $1000 bills and carrying them on corporate jets to leave Iraq.

Dadburn, doesn't that make Jose, Chunky, Ma Smith, Sam, Leo and Jose plumb proud of their fanatic beliefs?

Joe you call the president a criminal but what exactly is he guilty of? And please don't bring up the old dreamed up crimes that have already been debunked. I want to know about real crimes.

Once again you seem overly concerned about the issues that were in Iraq before we arrived. I'm not concerned with cleaning that up nor is any other American. It's not our business. I'm talking about cleaning up our mess that we created.

It is nice to know that you are entrenched in capitalism that you could care less about the fact that the buildings that are being built are severely inadequate or that our own men and women have been electrocuted while showering so that these great corporations could save a buck and make more money.

Screw oversight just so long as these poor companies that are only making a few million dollars a year can make just a little bit more, right?

No, Joe, I'm sorry but it is not how you look at it. they have been debunked. they have gone to court and been dismissed (the birth certificate) or proven not to have done anything remotely close to what they were charged with (ACORN). That's reality and I know that in conspiracy theory world there is not really anything that approaches reality or fact but they have been debunked not covered- up.

I guess I can assume that the only things you were going to list of Obama's supposed illegal activities have already been debunked otherwise you would have listed some of the illegal activities instead of debating debunked and covered up.

Actually Joe you left quite a big chunk out of the illegal immigrant issue. What Obama actually supports is that illegal immigrants must admit that they came across illegally before they can even be considered to be allowed to become a citizen. It should also be noted that the proposal that Obama is supporting is going to be sponsored by Lindsay Graham (R) and Chuck Schumer (D). The process is at the beginning and with everything it will take time before a final bill comes to pass.

Oh and this is where I got the link

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/18/obama-backs-senators-immigration-overhaul-o...

Jose,

Met with a landowner up in Appalachia Tuesday.

His families have lived, farmed and worked within a twelve-mile-long valley since before the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

Four families made the trek via horseback with pack animals (Horses, Mules and even the cattle), settling and living there with others who settled until the late 1800s without roads closer than 30 miles.

They built a multi-purpose water-powered mill -- Sawmill, grist mill and pottery.

Every winter for about three months, they had a community timber harvest, sawing and storing operation.

Stored the timbers and "saw lumber" under a huge open shed to dry, using as needed for houses, barns, bridges, graneries, still houses,privies, etc.

Starting with WWII, the valley slowly came into this one old timer's ownership, several pieces signed over to him for "$1.00, love and affection."

He must sell now, because "The Mexican hands" are not returning and there are no sober native born workers available.

For more than 20 years, the only dependable workers available have been "illegals."

He first found two men and three women on the road near a rail yard early one spring and offered them a place to live and a summer's work, on shares.

Eventually, he had more than a dozen couples and as many single men working in his valley -- living in old cabins within a mile of his home.

They produced Christmas trees, "turning" their own clay planter pots and other pottery, cutting slips of all the flowering trees, rooting and growing them out to foot to three foot heights.

Then he would take the loaded truck and trailer to nurseries and farmers markets, etc. in the city and sell. Any left over, park at an intersection and sell.

He had the land, clay, equipment and the hills full of things to harvest and sell.

"The Mexicans" had the skills, talents and energy to produce from it. They patched the old mill roof, a smaller grist-mill and water-powered potters wheels were all working after that first year.

Eventually they had four potters wheels working.

"No matter how early I got up, most of them were up and working. They kept the potters' wheels producing around the clock -- men and women working steadily, some digging, cleaning, mixing and preparing the clay. They turned out and we sold more than a million pots and jugs and other stuff.

"They used the rock ledges in the long "still cave" to sit the jugs on, pile wood in the floor for a "total fire," blocking the cave off with big wooden sections after the fires burned down.

"Pretty soon, this guy came up and offered to buy everything they could make. Sent a big truck four times every year, paid more than we'd been getting from the stores.

"Others were growing the trees. Bringing other truck out of the woods. We sold as many as 100 gunny sacks of mistletoe every winter. They grew gourds and all kinds of red chilis, Indian corn, cut greens and made wreaths and other things.

"Some weeks we sold three or four loads with the truck and the big trailer full. Winters, some of them went through the truck and rebuilt it, just with what tools we had and a few we had to buy or borrow.

"Summers, we made two to four trips every week with corn, melons, tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and all sorts of garden stuff they grew, mostly in patches along the creek, where they could run water in ditches all summer. They brought seeds from Mexico for things I'd never even knew about.

"After the first few months, we had laying hens and fryer chickens, added a bunch of cows to the two I already had, we had sows and pigs running in the woods and we even traded for several more calves every year. They were getting more meat out of the woods without guns than I'd seen in years."

"Boy, those folks never quit working."

"The ladies fed me three meals every day. Took me a while to get used to all the spices, even though they cut way back cooking for me.I tried their cooking the way they eat it one time.

"It burned my mouth and kept on burning all the way through for a week!"

"I don't think I ever told one of them what to do.

Those first ones, one woman spoke a little English, she taught me some Mexican. I had the Christmas trees already planted on about 80 acres, but they were so overgrown it was a real briar patch.

"After I explained what that was supposed to be,those folks just went in there and started cutting and chopping, cleaning it up.

"We'd all work, take things to town and just split the money -- I'd take enough for me to get by, buy what we all needed, keep the truck runnin' and the rest went to them and stuff we needed to keep growing and making more."

"Without them, I can't keep going. Want to save as much of this valley as we can, get enough to live on near some of the grandkids in town."

"Heard you might know some people who can work it out."

Jose,

Those "native Americans" worked from the start without any guarantees beyond enough to eat, most of which they produced after the first two months.

They lived frugally, made most of what they needed for home and work, whittled hand made tool handles, living and working much as the original Boonesboro colony.

That man admitted he got far more respect and love from them than from all his families combined.

The irony, the pottery buyer has gone to Mexico and is buying from them there now. It's either that or plastic from China.

Their ancestors were on this continent thousands of years before most of our ancestors got off the boats.

Yet -- "WE" insist "This is our country."

Nearly 30 years ago, no native born "white folks" would go up in those hills and root out a living.

A growing group of "dumb, lazy Mexicans joined the last remaining pioneer family member and his valley was alive again.

They worked, produced and earned their keep.

No welfare, schools, hospitals, or police.

Four potters wheels operated 24/7 year round.

Everyone worked, often 18-20 hours daily, at times two 24 hour days running getting loads ready to go.

Unusual -- Not really.

In California's farming valleys, field crews are out at 4 and 5 a.m., packing shed and processing plant workers often work three shifts, seven days weekly.

Most are immigrants.

Why, because those born and raised in the United States won't do that kind of work.

Quite the leap of logic there Joe but okay. By the way can you show me anywhere in either of the bills where selective sterilization is mentioned or for that matter death panels (I know I keep asking about the death panels but for a group of people that are absolutely positive that death panels are in one of the bills I have yet to find it).

Okay guys we all know that when Republicans are in power it's perfectly fine to use Reconciliation outside the budgetary process and the CBO is right in all of it's estimates. You have to remember that when the Democrats are in charge Reconciliation is not only unconstitutional but according to the great half term governor quitter Sarah Palin it's also un American (I've been wondering how long it was going to take for that charge to appear again. Also suddenly none of the CBOs estimates can be trusted.

My god, you bloggers are funnier than the comic page,which is a good thing since the World Hearld decided to cut back.

Seriously, how can you dems keep supporting your representatives that think voting for a bill is not necessary? They ,and by extension you people, are no better that a mugger in the alley.

"Now Mr. President Bozo is praising a new immigration "reform" package that says you can become a citizen if you just admit that you were here illegally!-- Posted by Joe Buck on Thu, Mar 18, 2010, at 4:49 PM

JOSE,

THAT I EXACTLY WHAT REAGAN/BUSH DID WITH THEIR ILLEGALS AMNESTY, GRANTING CITIZENSHIP OPPORTUNITY TO ABOUT 10-MILLION ILLEGALS.

SURE YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR PRESIDENTS CONFUSED.

CERTAINLY YOU SPEND AMPLE TIME IN THE CONFUSION BOX.

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"Seriously, how can you dems keep supporting your representatives that think voting for a bill is not necessary? They ,and by extension you people, are no better that a mugger in the alley.

-- Posted by boojum666 on Fri, Mar 19, 2010, at 12:43 PM"

BooHoo -- You clearly are not aware the GOP floor leaders have used the exact same procedures to pass legislation -- INCLUDING DUBYAH'S GOOD O' RICH BOYS TAX CUTS -- MORE THAN 200 TIMES, WHILE THOSE EVIL Democrats have used the procedure well under 100.

How is it that this stuff is fine with a GOP label on it and becomes EVIL when Democrats do it?

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BY THE WAY -- There is some CERTIFIABLE RECTAL ORIFICE on this and Sam's Blog who keeps lying about Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Can't recall which GRANITE SKULL it is, but I will guarantee the sorry Sod has never shaken that little grandmother's hand, has never debated a policy point with her and despite her photo being all over the tube and print media -- would not recognize her if she walked in with one of her grandkids and sat down next to him in a cafe.

What is there about you feeble brains that you go searching for slurs?

I don't hesitate about referring to the Texas Drunk, having sat in a third base box at Texas Stadium repeatedly over a period of years to witness him passing out from the booze between the 7th and 9th innings.

The difference -- I KNOW from experience what he looks and smells like when he is drunk. I know how the Texas Stadium ushers and security guards lifted his limp carcass over the rail and down into the back of a Cushman cart to deliver him to a cot in the club house.

You have never met Mrs. Pelosi, have no direct or indirect KNOWLEDGE of her personal habits and cannot name one legitimate witness who has seen her under the influence of anything but her grand chidren.

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By the way Jose,

You insist upon confusing the nonsense war in Iraq, with the unavoidable war with Al Qaeda and the Talib in Afghanistan and now Pakistan.

Without making a mockery of everything 5,000 U.S. service people died for, this administration is listening to military and civilian experience to leave Iraq as quickly and responsibly as possible, which by the way, is what he promised in the election campaign, in his inaugural speech and in his first State of the Union speech.

He is also following the original goal and the U.N. Mandate, to eliminate Al Qaeda and the Talib in Afghanistan.

Remember, this is the unavoidable fight every breathing American favored the morning of Sept. 12, 2001.

You don't like the idea of a Pakistani Nuke in your back yard. Iraq never had connection with the Pakistani Nukes except as a possible target, along with India.

But -- El Jose los Lose Marbles -- Walking away from Afghanistan and Pakistan again before the Talibs an Al Qaeda are defanged and eliminated will guarantee they will be delivering those 100 Pakistani Nukes to the U.S. and Europe, to India and Israel.

I don't want that. I don't want more bloody and torn U.S. uniforms, but that's one price we must pay unless we want those warheads delivered through our unprotected container ports.

You see Jose, while we are taking our shoes off at airports and leaving hand lotion and toothpaste at home in order to fly -- Good ol' DubYah and the Draft Dodgers left the Container Terminals at nearly 20 ports totally unprotected and uninspected.

Sam or some other Gearjammer could easily find himself delivering Instant Death to 20-Million American citizens, courtesy of Bin Laden and DubYah's pressure suit.

Recall Jose, BooHoo, Backassward Henri, Granny Smith, El Chunko and Sam --

It was your Odessa, Texas Village Drunk who got us into seven years of war with totally uncontrolled expense.

It was the DDD administration which abandoned the fight against the people who destroyed the World Trade Center and 2,000 lives -- and squandered all the years in Iraq.

Just talked with GOP Congressman Dan Lundgren of California's Mother Lode country, with a slice of Sacramento, about his BS regarding use of House procedures to move passed legislation on and out.

Lundgren grudgingly admits the GOP has used those same procedures about 200 times since the Reagan years, while Speaker Nancy Pelosi is only thinking about using them once.

Legislation is like sausage.

No one wants to watch it made, they just want the result.

The Congressional Budget Office has reviewed the bill in its present form and reports it will reduce total spending and debt.

The House today wasted five hours on a DOA resolution the GOP leadership wanted as a delaying tactic.

One of the same Congressmen who voted to use house procedures "standardized" by the last three GOP speakers -- starting with Newt Gingrich -- and being used by the GOP more than 200 times, was crying that the Democrats might use the same procedure.

If it was good enough to pass DubYah's rich boy's tax cut, it sure oughta be good enough to stop insurance companies from denying coverage because someone has been sick, or cutting them off because they got sick.

Good God Hank, 973 words! and no truth at all.

The CBO issues a preliminary report on a incomplete mess and you act as if Moses has come down from the Mount with the Tablets, maybe you were there also.

Hank your obssession with bush is a waste of time. He is gone Now Obama is catching up with Bushes popularity isn't he. All the desparate dem who voted for Obama are have a bad case of buyers regret. Kinda like poppa bushes "Read My Lips" boast, now Obama no tax on 95% of the people is starting to fall apart.

By the way, were you at Josiah's funeral? From your account it read like you were there, In North Carolina.

As a lifelong conservative that doesn't have blinders on, I want to congratulate you Mike for a very well written article and boy does it have a lot of truth in it. Keep it up.

"Heaviest Element Yet Known to Science Discovered"

Jose Can You See?

Without some attribution to the author of that bit, we'll have to just credit the "Anon." Neo-Con responsible for classic political satire.

Reminds me of Wayne Morse and Clare Boothe Luce and their continual verbal sparring during "slack time" on the Senate floor back in the 50s and 60s.

Congratulations to someone doing some actual Internet Research -- You actually figured out where Biker Joe came home for burial.

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This region has the best chance for a bright future emerging from more than a quarter century of economic collapse.

Lots of factors. Water, even if sources and distribution are not adequately developed.

The region west of Dallas, Wichita, Hastings, Sioux City and Fargo has yet to store the heaviest run-off (Check this week's Red River Floods), clean up polluted sources and fully conserve what water is available.

Southern California has expanded totally beyond support. Nearly a half-million acres of developed farmland lies fallow north of the Tehachapis, so a high percentage of SoCal homes can have in-ground swimming pools and green lawns.

Las Vegas is attempting to gain control of water rights to 90% of Nevada and Utah. Next -- they'll be going after water rights in Eagle County, Colorado.

Arizona is racing toward disaster with their water shortage.

The hugely speculative "Parsons Plan" of the 1950s and 60s, to move water from the Peace and Frazer Rivers in northwest Canada into Utah, Nevada, Arizona and California -- ain't gonna happen.

Southeastern Appalachia has major problems.

Ingrained cultural prejudice against anything from "outside" and "new" among many people, families and communities.

Failure to protect and conserve water and other critical resources

Those same regions lagging behind in education, technology and general conservation.

State governments dedicated to serving absentee ownerships of natural resources -- Coal,timber and land.

But, from the the center of Alamance County, hotbed of armed revolt against the Corrupt English Crown in the 1760s -- you are within 90 minutes of nearly 50 colleges and universities.

North Carolina has the best state-supported boarding schools for Match and Science and the School for Arts of any state in the nation.

The home base for Jesse Helms supported Obama/Biden in 2008.

Every poll shows the state's electorate is solidly supporting immediate Health Care Reform.

Why -- because 70% or more of the people have been hammered by plant closings in furniture and textiles since the 1950s.

I have helped one couple find a way to buy a home. Between them, they had 15 mills and factory jobs exported from under them. He started as a furniture factory manager, while she was a shift manager in a yarn mill. Their combined income exceeded $200,000 in the South.

He has completed years of auto mechanics training and now is paying for a shop with eight mechanics, plus support staff.

She completed beauty college and now OWNS a salon with five chairs operating. State and federal programs helped them achieve this.

Some of your tax money.

Waste? No.

Their combined businesses this year will generate state and federal income taxes more than double the total used to help their training, mot f which they are repaying as student loans-- as grandparents.

With "Land, Wood and Water" available here, supported by a moderate climate -- there is more potential for growth in one or two counties than in half of the High Plains.

That's brutal economic reality.

I am a westerner, having lived 80% of my life in the West. Operating as a businessman in 25 western states. From the Divide summit from above Calgary to Sonoita, Arizona, I will always love the Mountain West. From false dawn to full morning light in the Sand Hills and throughout the High Plains is pure magic.

There is not enough water for development.

Boone Pickens' wind farm is about as good as it will get. Basically another "primary" natural resource, along with oil, gas, coal, grass, scenery and solar energy.

Without water, the region must export resources.

My work here is to provide for population growth as the region's economy grows.

To a limited extent, that means doing what is possible developing jobs and housing.

Reality -- the region needs about $20 Trillion investment during the next 25 years.

Where would one find a rational use for $20-Trillion on the High Plains?

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Boo, Jose, Leo, Sam, Granny Smith and company can attempt to hang onto their well-aged thinking.

The attack dogs among you Neo Cons can berate me as an old man living in the past -- and this "Old ****" will just laugh at your studied ignorance.

I respect past experience and attempt to learn from it. From Alexander the Great, Hannibal, the Roman savagery, Israeli military skills and early North African, Arab and Egyptian scientific learning.

WHAT!!! Look at our system for math.

Just remember,"He who knows history and yet refuses to learn from history -- is doomed to repeat history's mistakes."

Backassward Enrique de Cabazo Morte,

Soviet Union -- Ravaged first by the Czars for hundred of years, then with the Bolshevik Revolution, ripped apart far more than the U.S. with the Civil War.

The assassin Stalin jumped in to grab control of a sprawling nation with no history for self governance. He ruled with pure terror and slaughter of entire populations through three decades.

Even then, Russia produced an economy, heavy industry, strong aircraft and heavy armor production, a nuclear industry and Nukes, beat us into space with Sputnik and terrorized the entire world with fear of their aggression for a half century.

Despite having a constitution outlining democratic government principles and institution, the Russian people permitted themselves to be oppressed by Stalin's dominance.

Greece -- An arid country of rocky ridges and mountains, with a few rocky islands -- NO natural resources except the ocean and sun. The cradle of modern civilization, but almost totally reliant upon tourism, fisheries, shipping, sparse olive groves and little else to feed their economy. Like the Italians they change governments more often than you change underwear.

Unfortunately, much more often.

Spain -- was under the rule of a FASCIST dictator supported into power by Adolph Hitler for more than 30 years. Franco bled the economy for that entire time and hid the money elsewhere, never expecting to survive beyond a decade.

Cuba -- This is a tiny, economically depressed island nation, dominated by Spain and then the U.S. since the days of Columbus. With U.S. support, the fascist dictator, Batista, ruled the country for two decades with an iron fist.

Castro took over with a popular uprising and ran Batista's cronies out. Their descendants are still provoking war in hopes of recovering the property they lost. Unfortunately for most of them in South Florida, they are a pretty sorry excuse for humanity. The Cuban people ran them out for good reason.

But recognize the obvious -- With the full power of the United States against them for a half century, that terrible Cuban government remains in power, and Uncle Sam has been rendered helpless by the failed Cuban economy.

East Germany -- Given to Stalin by Roosevelt at Yalta and stripped of everything the Russians could move out by train, plane, truck, tied to the backs of tanks, put in the trunks or on the roofs of stolen cars -- was taken back to Russia, along with every trained engineer, scientist, doctor of veternarian they could grab from Berlin east.

East Berlin -- Just like the entire Eastern Europe area awarded Stalin -- East Berlin was left in ruins while anything of use to Russia was carried away.

Contrast that history with the Marshall Plan, US Agricultural Aid, Point Four and all the other support we provided Western and Southern Europe, North Africa, Japan and huge portions of the Indo Chinese region, India and Taiwan.

Since reunification with West Germany, the entire German population have "sucked it up", rebuilt East Berlin and Eastern Germany.

The former Soviet dominated and occupied Eastern European countries -- Latvia, Lithunia, Estonia, Austria, The Solvanian/Balkan nations, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. are slowly rebuilding.

Croatia is a favorite European vacation destination again. Austria is virtually back to normal, Poland has recovered, Hungary is booming.

While you are about comparing, Oh Fountain of Ignorance, consider our former colony of the Philipine Republic which has been largely a royal disaster since we finally honored our pledge of freedom for the people.

They still produce superb Registered Nurses and medical techs. Many West Coast hospitals, VA included, could not stay in operation without nurses coming in from over there.

The U.S. sort of ignored promises for back pay, disability income and pensions for the native Rangers who rescued hundreds of our POWs and harassed the occupying Japanese forces in WWII.

Not quite as bad as the Army's treachery of the Pima and Apache Scouts who served for more than 30 years in the Southwest.

As soon as Geronimo was captured with lies and deceit, the Apache Scouts were disarmed, chained and shipped in rail livestock cars, along with Geronimo and a few of his warriors to join all the Mescalero Apache previously imprisoned and shipped to Florida' swamps.

The Pima Scouts likewise were stripped of their uniforms, weapons and chained. Then hauled in open wagons to the Pima reservations.

So much for the White Man's honor.

Still the Pima and Apache, along with all other Native Americans, have fought for this country in every war, including the Civil War.

geewhiz,

Thank you for your kind words

Badassward Enrique el Cabazo Morte del Burro;

Have you looked at the last two Republican Presidents -- both named BUSH?

Between them, with interest on Poppa Bush's $4-TRILLION in federal debt, piled up with his military adventures in Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq and South East Asia -- and another $7-TRILLION piled up by his pressure-suited son DubYah -- plus the hundreds of millions daily interest on that debt.

Both Bush presidencies left this country in severe economic distress -- Farm auctions, business and home foreclosures, S&L failures with Poppa Bush and a complete collapse of banking with DubYah.

Folks in Georgia today recognize that Jimmy Carter was by far the best governor of the past 100 years.

But even Carter could not get Georgia politics cleaned up 100%.

Carted did push through the first elections reform legislation since 1900.

But even his reform compromised to all "People who have died within the past five years may stil vote."

That's right, in Georgia your family can file your death certificate with the election officials and they can continue to vote your ballot for five years.

That's good conservative politics.

Badassward Enrique el Cabazo Morte del Burro;

Have you looked at the last two Republican Presidents -- both named BUSH?

Between them, with interest on Poppa Bush's $4-TRILLION in federal debt, piled up with his military adventures in Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq and South East Asia -- and another $7-TRILLION piled up by his pressure-suited son DubYah -- plus the hundreds of millions daily interest on that debt.

Both Bush presidencies left this country in severe economic distress -- Farm auctions, business and home foreclosures, S&L failures with Poppa Bush and a complete collapse of banking with DubYah.

Folks in Georgia today recognize that Jimmy Carter was by far the best governor of the past 100 years.

But even Carter could not get Georgia politics cleaned up 100%.

Carted did push through the first elections reform legislation since 1900.

But even his reform compromised to allow "People who have died within the past five years may still vote."

That's right, in Georgia your family can file your death certificate with the election officials and they can continue to vote your ballot for five years.

That's good conservative politics.

Backassward Enrique:

SSI was in good shape until a Republican president came up with the great idea to include all the farmers who had not been paying the SSI tax for decades, because they did not want to.

Farmers were allowed to pay minimal taxes for a few quarters and qualify for full SSI benefits.

Expansion of SSI benefits to cover non-contributing populations of those considered most likely to vote for the GOP has been a major factor.

My own father, far from being poverty stricken, paid the five quarters contributins with cash, immediately after the policy was put into place.

He drew SSI, he and my mother enjoyed MediCare and MedicAid benefits for a quarter century.

In those years, he stated repeatedly that he was not concerned that his grandkids might be left without benefits.

"They'll get by, they're getting good educations."

Simple reality, as millions of farmers sold their land and retired to the Sun Belts, they did so with full SSI.

Some of us have been making our SSI contributions for more than fifty and sixty years.

I am nearly two decades beyond SSI eligibility and still pay into the fund.

My first SSI deduction from a "Pennies per hour paycheck" was made about 1948.

Many of my highest net income years were within the old tax schedules coming from the Eisenhower years -- Where many middle-income couples where both were working and paying all the "Deducts" saw more than two-thirds of their combined income sucked away.

The same tax code allowed the super rich to avoid any taxes on more than 98% of their income.

For average people, the federal tax bite is greatly reduced now, but the benefits of sophisticated financial planning is widely available to average taxpayers.

Some of you have complained on the GAZETTE blogs when I openly state that I use every legal means to lessen my taxes.

Well folks, if it is legal for the Rockefellers, DuPonts, Huntingtons, Astors, Vanderbilts, Mellons and Bush's -- it is darn well legal for this "Old ****" who darn well earned 50 Cents for 14-hour days at age nine, and has worked steadily since age five.

I know what it takes to BUILD WEALTH.

You don't pour it out of a bottle, or burn it up with a pack or two packs of tailor-mades daily.

As a young parent, you don't buy the latest and greatest plastic toy, ATV, 12-speed bike, boom box or personal TV for each of your kids.

There are no new pickups for each child with the 16th birthday..as I have seen many fathers go into debt to provide.

AND I have turned down one father who wanted my sons to be pallbearers for his son's funeral after that expensive ride killed the boy.

So in the mist of all of this anit-abortion and baby killing talk I want to know this: Are you going to mind supporting these "unwanted" children that will be brought into this world? Are you going to care for them when they have been beaten or sexually molested? Are you going to volunteer your time to become a mentor to these "unwanted" children? Will you be there to wipe the tears of an unhappy childhood which later leads to multiple behavior problems? Oh that's right you don't do any of these things now do you. What about the trend that abortion rates are on the rise while crime in down? So worried about Socialist that you don't even take the time to look at what you are trying to CONTROL...and that is a WOMAN'S RIGHT to do as she pleases.

Here's a link ball explaining exactly how Harris does it's polls. Joe is not here to give you the facts for the information he gives. He just pushes his ideas as fact and you are supposed to accept. But I did the work for him. Harris does both online and classic poll taking. The online portion is from a full mix of different people in different industries.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/MethodsTools.aspx

When did I ever say they were my favorite community group. I was just supporting them because they were being unfairly lied about by neocons who were upset that small group like that could actually raise money better than their supposed grassroots organization.

I have a question for all the pro-lifers on this board. You fight so hard to ensure that all babies are born (even those that are born due to rape or incest) and yet after they are born you could not care less about them. Why?

I've heard time and time again that having health insurance is a privilege and not a right, but why is it not a right? Should not every American have the right to be able to live their life to the fullest and not have to worry if they are going to be able to pay the medical bills that month?

You may see it as socialism or communist or whatever key word your masters in the GOP give you for the week, but I do not and most people do not. If you truly believe that living is a right (since you are anti-abortion) you should be at the top of the list of people supporting HCR. Your rhetoric does not match.

Okay Joe I know how hard it is for you to read anything I type and actually internalize it as I have responded to this question but I do not report avatars nor do I know how to report avatars. I do not personally use them but if you want to use one (or anyone else for that matter) I am not going to report you for it. Of course since I have already answered this before and you keep asserting that it is I that keep flagging avatars I just wasted this space. But maybe the others did read it.

Wow Joe there goes that issue with internalization problem that you have I not one time said sit around and let the government do everything. But I guess when you do not have a good answer for a question answering a question that was never asked will work just as well.

And another internalization issue you continue to have I never said you had asked the question before (though it is possible that you did since you have a thing for disappearing avatars) I simply said that I had answered the question before (and yes it was on a blog in which you were participating in).

Any of my blogs that have disappeared have been my doing.

I've only hidden two blogs, one because the language and rhetoric had gotten out of hand. I did that at the time because I thought there was accountability on the blogs, now that I realize there is none I will not do it again.

The second I removed because I was not comfortable with the way college kids were being represented by certain posters.

If you do not like that start your own blog.

I have noticed that you have completely gone away from my earlier questions that instead of answering you decided to answer an unasked question. Now I know that whenever you type something you expect everyone to take it as truth so you do not have to actually answer a question, but unless another pro-choicer comes forward with an answer you are the only choice.

By the way GI welcome back I had noticed you had disappeared from my blogs for awhile.

Michael, based on your original remarks:

The Lord Rebuke you Sir, The Lord Rebuke you!

It is not what we say that matters, it is what God says that matters.

I only read your words. You must have opened the 'Box,' as you have many other comments that follow.

I am truly sorry you put your opinion ahead of God's word, but that is your choice.

Jose and Backasswards Hank,

During the Blair House summit, when every single Republican faithfully chanted, "Start Over" and "Step by Step," the one Republican spokesman declared he refused to accept the CBO numbers regarding the Health Care Bill.

Asked about other CBO numbers regarding other bills -- He admitted he accepted every other CBO number except for the Health Care Bill.

But the Neo-Cons on here cannot get one reality through their Granite Skull Boxes.

NO NATIONAL ECONOMY CAN SURVIVE FOR ANY PERIOD DEVOTING MORE THAN 15% OF GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT TO HEALTH CARE AND HEALTH INSURANCE.

THE GOP LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN REPEATING ONE-SIXTH OF THE NATION'S ECONOMY FOR A FULL YEAR.

THAT'S 16.6666% OF THE ECONOMY.

THAT PERCENTAGE IS CLIMBING TO NEARLY 20% THANKS TO SKYROCKETING INSURANCE PREMIUMS DURING THE PAST 60 DAYS.

A friend just dropped group health for all employees in his small business.

"The increased premiums would have put our business 7% into the red," he explained. "It was keep the business and protect the jobs or go broke, lose the business, lose the jobs and we would all have lost our insurance anyway."

Clearly, we reorganize the entire Health Care System, or this country will fulfill a certain complainer's insistence that WE ARE BROKE.

--------------------------

The latest GOP Mantra, the Democrats should forget more than a year's work and start over to do what the party of $11-TRILLION IN BUSH FAMILY DEBT wants.

During the Reagan/Bush and Bush/Cheney Twenty years with GOP control of the White House, Senate and House for much of that time -- WHY did the GOP humanitarians start their step-by-step programs?

We ALL know the answer.

The GOP does not want reform.

The GOP wants higher profits for insurance companies. After all that's where they go for campaign contributions.

Navy clearly you did not read my original blog or you would know that not once did I put my opinions above God. But I know just like the rest on here that **** (in the name of God) those that are not like them you do not really need to know what I say because you will just make it up.

I do not speak for God and never have pretended to do so. I do not go out and tell people that they must repent for their sins (because that is not my job it is God's), I do not go out and tell people what they are doing is a sin (because that is not my job it is God's).

It is not your job to ask God to rebuke or forgive me it is God's. I know that you believe I should repent for some sins you are convinced I have made, but in the end my decisions in my life will not be judged by you or anyone else on this sit, it is not your jobs.

Interestingly, Canada, Great Britian, Germany, etc all have national health care policies much closer to true socialism than what has been adopted recently in the US, yet I don't consider those countries socialist, nor would most who post here I would guess.

Why all this fear about positive change in the U.S.?

Could it be to many have believed the propoganda put out by the far right with financing from the insurance conglomerates?

National health care is long over due in our republic, and it would be nice if this were the death of right wing (and left wing) fear mongering.

What the reality is ontheleftcoast is that there are a lot of doomsayers on this blog (when new things are done by Democrats anyways). They will not or can not admit that HCR is actually a conservative piece of legislature that has a lot more workings from the right side of the aisle.

The ironic and sad thing about some of the amendments that Republicans are coming up with all of a sudden were never mentioned at any other point, not because Republicans were being shut out (which they continue to lie about) but because they were only interested in killing the bill.

Some of the amendments are actually decent ones that will eventually be voted into health care reform. Oh well I am enjoying all the voting on CSPAN2.

I really do hope that Republicans run on the Repeal, Replace mantra in the fall as it will be disastrous for them.

Backasswards Enrique,

You should study the Neo-Con tirades against FDR's SSI and every program he installed to fight the Great Depression.

Then study what the Neo-Cons screamed about the Civil Rights Bill with LBJ.

Then study the Neo-Con chants attacking Medicare when it was ennacted.

Actually, it is easy to study each political period.

All that is needed is to read the vitriol being written here by:

Sam, Jose the Buck, BA Enrique, Mrs. Smith, Mickel and your fellow hystericals.

You are spewing the same nonsense heard on all the other issues.

After SSI became established as the backbone for retirement financing for far too many Americans, with every new program the same element which fought SSI to the bitter end scream one invective.

"This new program will bankrupt the old programs we fought to prevent passage."

Explain -- "Health Care Reform is going to bankrupt Medicare."

So sayeth the same political extremist crowd which violently opposed Medicare, and now even more violently opposes Health Care Reform.

But, with Medicare they were fighting to prevent the bankrupting of SSI, which they had fought orginally, because it was going to bankrupt the country.

Let's review this -- In the late 30s, the U.S. was a nation of just under 130-MILLION people.

A 78 rpm phonograph record and static ridden AM radio were the common distribution media for music. Less than half the homes had running water and any indoor plumbing. Common farm and ranch hand wages were less than $1.00 per day.

In 1932,most land was tilled with mules and horses, pulling tw0 14-inch moldboard plows, or three 12 inch moldboards.

By 1941, most land was worked with tractors, with the smallest pulling two 12-inch moldboards at ten times the acres "turned" as with draft teams.

The first combines were powered by 12-up hitches.

Today's combines harvest many times as much grain acreage daily as even the early tractor pulled Gleaners.

Ford Tri-Motors were moving people from New York to San Francisco in two days.

By 1962, jets leaving New York arrived in Chicago, before they left, with the time change.

Just where between 1932 and 1962, did SSI and the liberals destroy the U.S.?

Exactly where, between 1970 and 2009, did Medicare destroy America?

In a destroyed nation, how did Mercury capsules, Apollo spacecraft, the Shuttle, computers, the Internet, Mach 4 supersonic aircraft, the Abrams tank, the now 30-plus year old 747, Lucy, Andy and Opie, Oprah and Dr. Phil, HDTV, satellite TV service to the most remote farms and ranches and these other "thangs" happen?

HOW IS IT -- That my blind daughter-in-law uses a voice activated and voice-translated computer to correspond INSTANTLY with people around the globe, read almost every book ever printed and teach "sighted" students.

PUH-LEEZE EXPLAIN IN DETAIL -- How SSI, Medicare, Workman's Compensation, Unemployment Insurance,the Interstate Highway system, NASA, CDs, DVDs, penicillin, anti-biotics, polio/smallpox/cholera/diptheria/tuberculosis and even HIV treatment have destroyed America?

Trent LOTT worshipped at the Strom Thurmond shrine -- Oh Yes,Thurmond should have been president.

Thurmond continued his racist rants until the end.

While back at home, he lived in secret with his Afro-American mistress and their children.

John Ensign ranted about Clinton and Monica, but that did not prevent him from adultery with a female campaign worker, who was also a neighbor in their gated community, and also the wife of a good friend and top aide in Ensign's office.

["Hey Zeke,iffen she ain't good 'nuff for kin folk and friends down the road, there's gotta be sumpin' wrong with her."

Ensign is still in office with full support of conservatives.

Terry Sanford was in Washington during the Clinton administration, with his wife's money financing his political career. He was a non-stop attack critic of Bill Clinton.

Now just what is this m!!

iraculous amability to be hiking the Appalachian Trail, while shacked up with his mistress in Argentina -- while his wife was at home raising their family?

You scream and rant, froth and foam at the mouth and nothing the Neo-Cons have insisted would destroy America for the past 80 years has done anything but accelerate growth.

Of course, we MUST ACCEPT neo-con rants as divinely inspired -- sanctified by YOUR God!!

There would seem to be a problem with Neo-Con prophecies.

Every dadburn one has been W-R-O-N-G-!!!!

What does that even mean little hank? What you said makes absolutely no sense. I assume (since you are an alarmist and doomsdayer)you are predicting like all the other doomsdayers out there that this like all the other programs will destroy America. My question to you is what if you are wrong? Mind you I am not looking for the standard "I won't be wrong" answer that you all love to give when given direct answers but what do you say or do if you are wrong on this?

So basically little hank your answer is a non answer. Good to know.

The reason we are having so much fun with repeal and replace is because in order for that to happen the Republicans will have a net gain in at least the Senate of 26. That's 19 to break any filibuster and 26 to override a presidential veto. the chances of that kind of election actually happening in November is slim to none. Now that the polls are actually changing to support HCR that is more than less than likely to occur. So Democrats are inviting Republicans to run on repeal and replace, so that Republicans will have to explain why they want to take tax breaks away from small businesses, keep the Donut Hole in Medicare Part A open, and ensure that people with pre-exisiting conditions can not get insurance.

So as President Obama said today if Republicans want to run on "Repeal and Replace" ... "Go for it."

"If I am wrong then we we'll have cut the military to a brigade, or cut social security to $50 a month, or eliminated medicaid or medicare, cause this nation can't afford all the liberal entitlement programs we currently have. Repeal and Replace!!!!!!" - hankherndon

Actually hank no that is not an answer to my question "What if you are wrong?" That's an answer that still assumes you are right which is very far away from my question.

So put your bias aside and really think on this one little hank, the question is, What if you are wrong?

By the way little hank you might want to make sure your links work next time.

Really interesting that now all of a sudden you trust CBO little hank, once again proving the point that you only support stats and numbers from the the CBO when they support your rhetoric.

Where in my post do you even come up with the idea NatsoGouda or did you completely just make it up (which is exactly what you did since I never said I did not trust their numbers)?

At this point I have no reason not to trust their numbers. It's only slightly higher than what the Obama Administration said in January.

Neo-Cons All,

There hasn't really been a challenge to all your lies about Candidate Obama's positions.

Suggest you go research his campaign speeches, the debates, even the Iowa Daily newspaper interview and editorial board interrogations during that first primary campaign.

Someone can suggest -- doubt seriously if any of you will try it -- Knowing the truth might hamper your "Attack Dog" style.

For the record, Candidate Obama did not and at no time did President Obama campaign on promises to or actually promise to:

PULL U.S. COMBAT UNITS out of Iraq immediately. "With a responsible schedule developed by our military leaders and the Iraqi government."

PULL OUT OF AFGHANISTAN immediately.

"This is the war we had to fight and we must win. The stakes are too high, the cost of failure is too great. Al Qaeda and the Taliban must be stopped."

CLOSE GITMO PRISON IMMEDIATELY.

"The goal must be to close it within a year. Pursuing a truly legal trial system which works is one requirement. Keeping men there without even a pretense of formal charges is not acceptable."

FROM HIS FIRST SPEECH IN IOWA UNTIL THIS WEEK.

"We must achieve Health Care Reform and stop the abuses within the health insurance companies. Denying coverage because you have a pre-existing condition, or canceling coverage because you are sick or injured is not responsible or reasonable conduct by insurors."

"Everyone is paying for medical treatment for lower-income, uninsured families going to hospital emergency rooms, with the highest costs in the medical world. This cannot continue.'

The TRUTH is available.

The TRAGEDY is that those who manufacture lies to have an excuse to HATE the President are not interested in TRUTH.

Their racist anger won't accept the truth.

This president worked to get his Columbia U. education.

{For the Neo-Con political heroes, Deep Pockets Daddy, or a multi-million dollar family trust paid for a free ride to New England's finest private college prep schools, the most elite private universities for the neo-con heroes. Except for John McCain, who started a lifetime of government health care with his mother's first "pelvic" in a Navy hospital, through the "with salary" Annapolis education and his entire adult life on government health care -- at least until he divorced his cancer-stricken wife to marry his wealthy young mistress.)

Several illiterate types on these GAZETTE blogs continually refer to the President with derogatory expressions, based purely upon their prejudices.

I've seen DubYah, up close and personal. I have known members of the Oil Patch community in Midland and Odessa, Texas who know Poppa and Barbara Bush from the first month they lived in that West Texas area.

Anyone watching that limp, passed out drunk being lifted from a box seat in the Ranger's Stadium is unlikely to forget the future President.

I prefer the image of a young Columbia grad walking away from Wall Street's six and seven figure incomes to help the jobless victims of steel mill closings.

Go to Chicago's South Side, over near Gary, Indiana. Visit the Senior Centers -- Ask if anyone remembers the tall skinny black kid with the funny name.

If you feel real brave, refer to him with one of your pet slurs. Please, get in the center of a circle of those Old Farts and declare your hatred for "President Bozo."

Don't expect help, until any more education might kill you.

Hey Cheesehead--

As you well know, what I was saying obliquely -- was that the people the young Columbia grad helped for five years are more than slightly partial to the fellow.

I invited you to go to one of the SENIOR CENTERS in that area, walk out into the middle of a bunch of those folks and start hurling your slurs toward the President of the United States.

Just as none of you neo-cons would think of coming to this part of the country, walking up into my face and calling me a communist in public.

You see, I've already decided I'll take my chances with a jury of the folks around here.

First, after the jury was picked, just ask for a show of hands on how many of them would refuse to hold still for some flannelmouth calling them a communist in public.

You know what, I suspect any jury on the High Plains would also have about 100% of the hands held high.

Just as the Media Types and others are going after Tiger Woods and ripping him about his actions for which he has apologized repeatedly.

Name all ten-Million 30-year-old men you know who would walk the straight and narrow and not lose their life's compass course when their bank account gets beyond One Billion Dollars and they have still been responsible for even more than One Billion in charitable support?

As an FFAlivestock exhibitor, I was at quite a few regional and state fairs, livestock shows and rodeos.

Most of the more prominent farmers, ranchers, businessmen, politicians and wealthy oil men were to be found at the same events.

Amazing how many of those good ol' boys were to be found out and about evenings with their 18-30-year old "nieces."

Saturday nights were usually known for serious partying by the majority of those local and state leaders and their "nieces."

Come Sunday about 10 a.m., while the "nieces" were nursing hangovers, quite often "Uncle" was in one of those prominent front pews in a respectable church with wife and family.

As with John Ensign, Terry Sanford, Tom DeLay and several other uber-conservative leaders with serious attack dog credentials regarding this fellow named Clinton -- They never hesitated to lambast anyone else for failure to follow the straight and narrow.

In fact, they were the first to become publicly moral and judgmental.