NY-23

Michael,

Even funnier is the spin attempted regarding the Virginia's governors race.

The Democrats ran a tired, long-term Blue Ridge Mountains senator, against an attractive youthful centrist from the Populous Urban Northeast.

The Neo-Cons immediately began spinning a major setback and repudiation of President Obama.

BALONEY -- It was simply the "modern" urban majority going with a young, energetic candidate.

Had I been eligible to vote in Virginia, you bet your sweet bippy, I would have voted for the Republican winner.

In New Jersey, an "ethnic" incumbent who has devoted his term in office to enraging all the voters, lost to an aggressive young prosecutor who promised to clean up New Jersey's official governmental corruption.

Not for a moment do I believe more than 2% of all "Joisey" voters believed that "clean up" promise for a moment. Attilla the Hun could have beaten the incumbent.

Two states where the Democrats presented low-value candidates for governor.

Two states where they got their just desserts.

Virginia and New Jersey had qualified younger candidates with excellent credentials, but the party "pros" nominated political hacks -- and the people are smarter than that. At lease the independents were.

Just as they were in NY23rd Cong. District.

There was a pure test of a qualified moderate and a qualified super conservative. The conservative had virtually unlimited financing and it showed.

That quite possibly backfired on their man.

North Carolina had the immediate former Democratic Governor facing potential election fraud charges. South Carolina has Republican Mark [Gone Hiking] Sanford in deep trouble.

The old style politicians have not learned this is a new "connected" world.

A politician goes before an audience with his fly open and before he is midway through his stump speech, a cell phone camera has the photo on 50 websites, probably six photos.

Ask John Anderson, former attractive "poor milltown boy" presidential candidate. One affair with a woman in California -- and his political career is over.

Not because he was caught during the affair, but because in the middle of an election campaign, he was dumb enough to go calling on the woman and their child.

Any political figure who even thinks about anything but fully ethical conduct in this era is doomed to exposure.

But some still try to fool all the voters for a while.

They can no longer expect to fool some of the voters for a little bit of time.

Well anyone who believes that either race in Virginia and New Jersey had anything to do with Conservative politics weren't paying attention or (more likely) just trying to spin it that way.

Neither Republican candidate was a conservative candidate, they were both moderates.

The true test will come next year as the Conservative wing tries to push out moderate Republicans like Charlie Crist in Florida. If they are successful and then lose the general election it will be extremely hard for them to say that the Republican Party is a truly conservative party, which I don't believe that it is.

I followed the Virginia election a bit. And I don't think Deeds lost because of people's opinions on Obama. He lost because he was an unexciting candidate who ran an unexciting campaign.

Firstly, they were both fairly centrist candidates. McDonnell is certainly not a hard line conservative, nor was Deeds really a liberal. Some of their positions kept the party lines. But Deeds certainly did not hold some of the more stereotypical "liberal" positions.

Deeds did not support same sex marriage. He did oppose the VA constitutional ban on same sex marriage, but has publicly stated that marriage is between a "man and a woman".

Deeds wasn't really "anti-gun". In fact, he was endorsed by the NRA in 2005 when running for attorney general (against McDonnell actually)

Deeds is also pro-death penalty. He even disagreed with the supreme court's ruling that it's unconstitutional to execute juveniles.

So, there were 2 fairly centrist candidates. One a bit to the left, one a bit to the right. And Virginia has traditionally been a "red" state, despite the fact that it's last two governors were dems. It's common knowledge that the only reason Obama took Virginia was because of Norther Virginia, a heavily "blue" area.

This is the problem. McDonnell is FROM Fairfax county in northern Virginia. So he probably got a bit of a "hometown advantage". Factor in that Deeds was not an exciting or very liberal candidate to get northern Virginia liberals excited, and he doesn't have much of a chance.

As for the NY-23rd. I don't know that it really spells trouble for the republicans. It certainly showcases that the hard-line conservatives are taking more and more control of the party. You've got Scozzafava being pushed out, and Arlen Specter being forced out by the prospect of a more conservative primary challenger. Seems to be a trend to push the more moderate members out of the party. I'm interested to see where this goes.

It could drive the Republican party further to the right. Which would probably not be good (electorally). The further they move to the right, the more moderate voters they alienate.

Or, it could potentially cause a schism. With the republican party breaking into a more moderate Republican party, and a more hard-lined conservative party.

I'm sure the democrats would just love scenario number two, which is why I'd think it's not likely to happen. Although, I do think that a schism for BOTH parties would be an interesting prospect. A Democratic party. A Republican party. A Liberal party. And a Conservative party. Now that would be something to see...

Hey jhat --

With two centrist parties, One Liberal, One Conservative, hopefully a Libertarian and maybe an openly Socialist lineup -- we could have a Congress which would replace Italy's parliament as the world's leading political soap opera.

Try to imagine LBJ operating with a Congress split 30, 30, 15, 15 and 10.

As much as I would love to see the United States with more than two national parties, I don't think it will ever happen. It's hard enough to even get a viable third party running in this country. Americans love opposition politics that's why one party has never fully taken control in the United States.

I'm afraid we are stuck with the two party system for the foreseeable future.

While I don't find the idea of a party schism LIKELY, I do find it INTERESTING.

While a multi-party system presents it's own problems, I think I would prefer it.

First of all, because a 2 party system doesn't accurately represent everyone's views. What if I'm socially liberal (democrats) but economically conservative (republicans)? Or vice versa?

Secondly, I don't like that politics has become a "team sport". Where EACH side is just happy to see the other lose. And each side seems to be more interested in beating the other side than actually governing effectively or even doing things that make sense.

The most recent example of this being the conservative celebrations after America failed to secure the Olympics. It just seems petty to celebrate America losing the Olympics because that's what the president wanted. I'm sure conservatives could point out some equally petty things liberals did over the last 8 years.

I have been saying for a long time that our political system needs to get rid of the two party system and have candidates from each realm of the spectrum run.

For one, it would make elections alot more exciting and possibly drive up election numbers

And tow, as jhat said, the Democratic Party doesn't represent fully every person's ideologies on the left and the Republican Party doesn't fully represent every person's ideology on the right.

Look at today's political games.

Liberals are bashing Pres. Obama for catering to moderates and heaven-forbid, even Republicans.

Conservatives are bashing Pres. Obama because they need to believe the other guy is a flaming red communist, or at least a died-in-the wool Socialist.

Anything less, eases the boogeyman's distance from acceptable and the Devil.

Shotgun Cheney, the notably HAWKISH draft dodger attempts to blast Pres. Obama for not shooting from the hip in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Remember Old Shotgun, the combat expert, who declared the Taliban had been eradicated five years ago. Aside from using his favorite weapon on bird hunting companions, Cheney rode shotgun for that brilliant military commander-in-chief who wore a jet jock "G-Suit" strutting across an aircraft carrier flight deck under that genius banner -- MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Explain that claim to the 50 some U.S. and U.N. force people who died at the hands of the destroyed Taliban last month.

We have a centrist president, leading a centrist nation and that is driving Neo-Cons wild, right alongside the ultra liberals.

Neither extreme is going to control this administration. Decisions are being made by the common sense process of studying all facts and options.

There is plenty of time to deliver any needed troops to Afghanistan.... After the strategists KNOW that both Afghanistan and Pakistan are cleaning up at least some of the corruption and taking some serious military action against the common enemy.

The clear message -- YOU QUIT SKIMMING FROM EVERY AMERICAN DOLLAR AND START FIGHTING YOUR OWN FIGHT, THEN THE U.S. WILL DECIDE HOW MUCH MORE HELP AND WHAT KIND OF HELP WE WILL PROVIDE.

Off the wall U.S. politicians who have thrown U.S. lives away and sacrificed intelligence "asset" lives to achieve domestic payback aims, need to shut up and leave the grownups to get the job done.

For the Obama Haters, listen to the generals and admirals -- they are solidly in agreement with this administration's policies.

I watched one member of the top brass the other night, during some event.

He made one of the most astonishing statements ever to come from someone of his rank -- "Some of us finally got the message from this president, when he told a room full of us, a meal will be served here. The restroom is out that door and this will be the only way in and out.

"No one leaves here until I have straight answers. Quit worrying about me being able to take the truth. I cannot accept incomplete information and I will not accept deception or lies. The only reason anyone will regret serving with me is if they lie and I find they have lied."

High plains folks should quit worrying about this hypothetical liberal taking this country socialist.

G.M. and Chrysler are not under government control, they are under private management with clear understanding that returning to the stupidities that got them in dire straits, will result in a bankruptcy court auctioning off assets so taxpayers can recover as much as possible.

All Health Care proposals now on the table mean "we the people" cannot be denied health insurance based on any pre-existing condition, cannot lose coverage because we got sick or were injured and we will eventually have some choices in every state.

In some states, Blue Cross/Blue Shield control more than 90% of the health insurance market. That is an effective monopoly, A non-profit where several executives receive multi-million dollar salaries, while premiums continue to climb 15% or more annually.

In one state last week, BC/BS mailed notices of blanket premium increases - followed by a letter opposing establishment of any competition for their monopoly.

Their senators and representatives were smothered by screaming voters demanding an end to the BC/BS monopoly.

Allowing serious market competition and outlawing legally-established and protected monopolies does not have a lot of opposition, except for the monopolists.

With this mandate I suppose Health Care and Cap and Trade will be passed in a few days.

Democrats are picking up speed. Winning the elections that matter. The people still love them.

I think that President Obama needs to start pulling his weight. He hasn't proposed a thing yet. Just waiting to sign a bill......

Between sceptre and wallismarsh, there develops a question --

Can anyone on the High Plains understand plain English or consider facts before roaring off to foregone conclusions based on God knows what????

For some intellectually bankrupt illiterate to even attempt to combine "Fascism, Nazism, Communism, and the rest of Obama's Socialism" into a coherent concept is more than a stretch of credulity.

Fascist/Nazis fought Communists in Spain, in Eastern Europe and fought most of the western world in Europe, Asia, Africa and on the high seas from 1938 through 1945.

Tens of millions died under both Facist/Nazism and the Stalinist tyranny of the Soviet Union.

Stalinism was pure unvarnished tyranny. Stalin was a totally paranoid, bloodthirsty tyrant and his rule had absolutely nothing to do with Socialism or Communism.

Mao did lead a communist revolt against the warlords who had ravaged and ruled China for centuries.

But for an uncredentialed raver to attempt to label a purely centrist president as a Fascist/Nazi/Communist/Socialist goes beyond rational political discourse.

Then we have:

"President Obama needs to start pulling his weight. He hasn't proposed a thing yet. Just waiting to sign a bill."

Did I totally misunderstand his campaign platform?

He only repeated the basic proposals about 10,000 times during the campaign, in his inaugural address, the State of the Union and again in the Joint House speech where he outlined his basic Health Care Proposals.

In his spare time, he has tackled scores of problems created by DubYah and the Draft Dodgers, and after nine months, the deep recession he kept from becoming a total depression has been turned back and the economy has started growing again.

FDR never fully turned the economy around from the Great Depression for nine years -- 1932 through 1941.

The team of competent professionals put together by this administration has succeeded in stopping and turning around the recession which started in late 2007, and grew steadily through 2008.

The comparison, nine years with partial success for FDR, Nine months with succcess for Pres. Obama. But sceptre, you keep screaming. Good men died so you would have that right.

Too bad, you can't study facts and reach intelligent conclusions.

FDR's Civilian Conservation Corps, training, feeding and clothing 3-Million men created more than 899 state and local parks, built most of the infrastructure in the National Parks, while creating several parks from scratch. Each man was paid $30 monthly, and automatically sent $25 home to his family. CCC wages saved millions of American families.

When WWII came, those CCC-trained men converted themselves into one of the greatest military the world has ever know.

All that, and even with 2-Million working in the WPA programs, the depression hung on in 1941.

Of course, Pres. Obama's critics savaged him totally for the Copenhagen trip, gleefully celebrating the Olympic site committee's selection of any city other than Chicago.

So-called Americans who have never quit complaining about President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize -- and who celebrated "their country's" loss of an Olympics games.

And these people call themselves American Patriots.

For 85-90% of real Americans, the fringe element hating the Nobel Peace Prize award and celebrating the Chicago loss -- are not Americans.

They are a bunch of spoiled brats, directly related to those Fourth Graders who picked up there marbles and went to play on the "ocean wave" because they lost a prized "aggie."

Forget it people, Dick "Shotgun" Cheney is no longer a factor. DubYah can toss out ceremonial pitches, make $100,000 speeches and ride his mountain bike.

They no longer count, except when we are staring at the enormous national debt they created, the bankruptcies and foreclosures they left, the bank collapses and the $10-TRILLION TO $20-TRILLION lost worldwide.

That's not even counting the fraud committed by their cronies within their no-bid contracts-- it will be difficult to ever tally that total.

It's nice to see that Sceptre is now accepting that voting in centrist Republicans to the governorship, electing a Democrat for the first time since the Civil War in a New York district, and Washington keeping legal domestic partnerships as America getting back to their ideals.

So HerndonHank, we get the message you dislike

Bush/Cheney, republicans, Christians, and Conservatives. The 50's, and 60's were the best years of your life. What do you really bring to the discussion?

Really Mike, NY-23 is NOT a conservative district. Republicans there tend to be centrist to slightly right, while democrats tend to be centrist to slightly left. For Conservative Hoffman to pull within 3-5 points against democrat Owens is a huge feat.

And also, what's wrong with Conservatives selecting and voting for their candidate? For years we've been force fed "moderates" who mission in Washington is to be liked by democrats. I want my voice heard too.

No one has been forced moderation, ever. It's up to the voters to select who they want to run for office.

Let me get this straight, moderates Republican goals in Washington are to be liked by Democrats? Are you kidding me? Do you even pay attention to what happens in Washington?

Hoffman should have won NY-23, Owens was never ahead in the polling. This is a huge defeat, not only for Republicans but for the Conservative base in the party.

Let me say this again. NY-23 has not elected one single Democratic candidate since the Civil War until this election.

But congratulations for seeing a clear loss as a victory. At least you didn't pull a Sarah Palin and declare that the race wasn't actually over but just postponed which is just a joke.

It must be absolutely embarrassing that conservative leaders in Washington, despite claiming to be better Americans, don't know the words to the Pledge of Allegiance or the difference between the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

Chunky,

You are so far out in FAR RIGHT FIELD you are at serious risk of becoming a career foul ball.

Simple fact, as a businessman, I profited by understanding the economic forces hammering rural farm towns and using the reality to help build those towns.

One community had lost five major businesses, more than 350 jobs in less than four years, with three dozen small retail and service businesses closing.

Two years after I arrived, we had added 290 jobs, five new business payrolls and 28 retail and service businesses had opened.

Simple reality, during Republican control years in Washington, D.C. I had more demand for my skills than I could meet. Rural American took a beating every time a Republican was in the White House and when we had solid GOP control in Washington, rural economies were devastated.

Where it really hurts, is seeing towns that had recovered their "MoJo" during the 60s and 70s drying up and blowing away in the 80s, 90s and 2002-2009.

You and Sam need to look around Nebraska and Iowa. Call your state Newspaper Associations in all those states, or query through their websites and ask how many country weeklies and dailies have disappeared.

See if the state Chambers of Commerce can even guesstimate how many small town businesses have disappeared.

Drive through all the small towns and count the empty buildings and vacant main street lots. Count the piles of bricks and building scraps.

Sam can count the potholes and unpatched or poorly repaired sections of highway.

Tell me how good we have had it with eight years of Ike, eight years of Tricky Dick, sixteen years of Reagan/Bush and eight years of Bush/Cheney.

That's 40 years of Republican presidents since the 1950s.

Barry Goldwater thought he was inspiring a massive conservative upswelling which would give him victory.

Reagan was the father of modern conservatism.

Look at the actual results.

I would like to say that no candidate elected to the presidency has ever been a Goldwater Republican.

Yes, his rhetoric was out there but it didn't truly match his ideology as a man.

HerndonHank,

You brought all that commerce to Herndon. You must have been GREAT! We are talking Herndon, Kansas, right?

Just exactly what did you do? Are you using your talents to better humanity today? Or are you just living off of the greed of your past success?

And hold on:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0VibvgMRn4zDGTwEZjej-eRI1swD9...