Osama bin Laden DEAD

I would also like to add that this is not and should not be a political moment. This is an American moment that all of US have been waiting for.

It is fantastic that our forces finally got the one responsible for the murder of thousands of American and foreign citizens. Three cheers for our military!!

(PS, Mike, if you don't want it to be political, why'd you add the typical lib line, "Bring them home?" Killing bin Laden didn't destroy the terrorist network...)

I don't consider wanting to bring our troops home to be a typical liberal line. I'm sorry that you believe I need and want to bring our troops home to be political.

I've consistently said that once bin Laden had either been captured or killed that I considered our job in that part of the world finished and it would be time to bring our troops home.

You are right it didn't destroy the network, but I believe that it had a crippling effect on it.

You know Michael, you and I may actually agree on something. I do not think we can be the policeman of the world, especially free of charge. I can not imagine asking our local policeman to provide police services at their expense. Yet, we do this world wide.

As Donald Trump pointed out recently, we had a trade agreement that we (USA) asked South Korea to sign. The agreement was terribly one sided, it seemed we were begging South Korea to take advantage of us. The South Koreans said no. They not only wanted to take advantage of us, but they wanted to kick us in the teeth (financially)as well.

Then North Korea started acting up again, and the South Koreans call us up. They now were willing to take advantage of us, and kick us in the teeth, if only we'd send over an aircraft carrier and other US Navy ships to protect them.

So we do, at great cost to the taxpayer, and the trade agreement will further kill US jobs.

This kind of nonsense has got to stop. If countries like South Korea, and others want US protection, fine, but we need to CHARGE them for it.

I think that Obama needs to have some credit for not abandoning the Bush policies that he promised to do when in campaign mode, that eventually led to getting Osama.

Listening to Obama's speech last night, it was typical of Obama. "I, I, I, and me, me me."

Interesting how it was the military, that the left has demonized for so many years, that allowed Obama to have at least one success story.

And please don't deny that Michael. I can come up with too many examples, from John Kerry to John Murtha. From Senator Durbin to Shelia Jackson Lee. From Harry Reid to Anthony Wiener.

In the end, it was the military, which John Kerry once accused of being made up of only the poor and uneducated, that made this triumph possible.

Go Navy!

"I think that Obama needs to have some credit for not abandoning the Bush policies that he promised to do when in campaign mode, that eventually led to getting Osama."

Interesting point, Sam, except for the fact that Obama said during his campaign that he would make it his number one goal to get bin Laden.

"Listening to Obama's speech last night, it was typical of Obama. 'I, I, I, and me, me me.'"

Did you actually listen to the speech last night or are you making this up as you go along? The only time Obama mentioned himself specifically was when he was talking about the planning to get bin Laden. What did you expect him to do? The rest of his speech(which was the huge majority of it) was left to the military and Americans.

I'm denying it so please enlighten me, Sam. But please use facts and verifiable information and not just say that it so.

I do have to thank you though Sam. I fully expected that you wouldn't be able to contain your total disdain for President Obama to take shots at him the very next day.

Here's the problem as I see it Sam. You are always vilifying people that don't agree with you for their politics and trying to paint them in a negative light. You do this all at the same time while portraying yourself and those that believe the same as you as victims as some great left wing conspiracy.

Yet at the very first sign that something goes right, not just for the President but for our country, your first notion is to take pot shots at the President and push politics into a moment where it really doesn't belong.

So I guess congratulations for sadly, not disappointing me.

Michael,

I really am trying to not be political here, but you make it hard to avoid being so.

I agree we should bring our troops home. I disagree that the death of Bin Laden will have much effect on the overall terrorism in the world. I was a little saddened at all the celebrating in the streets, but I guess it just shows we really aren't any different than the Taliban, Hamas, etc.

"Interesting point, Sam, except for the fact that Obama said during his campaign that he would make it his number one goal to get bin Laden."

It's a good thing Bin Laden was killed not captured, otherwise Obama would have had no where to hold him since he closed Gitmo at the end of his first year, just as he promised as well.

Still awaiting an apology

MrsSmith,

Why would wanting to bring our troops home be a liberal idea? Are you saying the conservative idea is to keep our American soldiers engaged throughout the world without end? I certainly hope that isn't the conservative line.

Still awaiting an apology

Perhaps now Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and all Islamic extremists can put down their arms and go about their peaceful ways.

interesting situation. We should not be blaming bush for anything that is happening during the obama term, but we should give him credit for this. Same on the other side, if you think bush is partly to blame for the shape of our country then shouldent we give him a little credit in this?

we can blame him and not give him credit, or we refuse to blame him and give him no credit

President Bush started the war (which I did support) against al Qaeda. Unfortunately, when he left office bin Laden was still out there. Obama came into office and the job was finished.

Some credit should be be given to both Presidents for eventually ridding the world of a truly evil person, but the troops (especially those men who went on the raid) deserve the lion's share of the credit.

I personally don't understand why people that are upset about people celebrating (though I think that is the wrong word to use). Most of the people that were out there last night and today were college age. In other words, they were around the age of 10 when 9/11 happened. Most of their lives have been dominated by Osama bin Laden.

Personally I think it's sad that you compare Americans being happy that a man who was responsible for 3,000 American lives being killed to terrorists. Truly, truly sad, SW.

Just in case you want to deny that you were making the comparison here is your exact quote:

"I was a little saddened at all the celebrating in the streets, but I guess it just shows we really aren't any different than the Taliban, Hamas, etc."

Is that what you truly meant or do you want to now say that isn't what you meant.

I believe Obama deserves sincere credit for the risk he took in this operation. Had this mission failed, the blame would have rested upon his shoulders. I think Obama showed courage and leadership.

No doubt that we have become bitterly divided in this country, and I would argue that it is the left that has worked to that end, however, there are times, when we must join hands, times when we must postpone our gall and strife, and sing God Bless America. I looked at some photos posted on thebleze.com, and you can see the tension in the room, as Obama, Biden, Clinton and others watched events as they went down.

There was much politically at stake, and to Obama's credit, he did it anyway. I congratulate President Obama on the leadership he showed here.

Will Michael now give George Bush credit for the enhanced interrogation techniques that ultimately led to the finding of OBL? Many on his side of the political spectrum called Bush a criminal, will Michael now condemn those remarks?

I did not make up John Kerry's condemning remarks about our men and women in uniform. I did not make up Harry Reid's comments that the war was lost.

Perhaps now the left will realize that sometimes you must go and shoot the bad guys in the head. Apparently, Obama finally realized it.

Perhaps now all this silliness about GITMO from the left will stop.

We still have a Muslim problem in the world, and it needs to be addressed. Time will tell if our current leaders have finally realized this or not.

So, once again, I congratulate the President for having the courage to authorize such an operation, and of course, I applaud the brave men who carried it out.

those photos are on theblaze.com

Michael,

Why would I deny what I said? Usually the only thing I need to refute is your inaccurate representation of what I said.

Why are you happy that people celebrate in the streets when others are killed?

I'm a little surprised by your vehement response, I thought maybe this would be another of the times we agree, I thought your liberal "open mindedness" would think that we should be better than a mob. I notice that you criticize me without pointing out any flaw in my premise. If I were thin skinned like you I would probably say "attacked".

Where do you stop finger pointing Michael, I thought KSM was responsible for masterminding 9/11 not Bin Laden. When he is tried and hopefully found guilty, I won't be for celebrating in the streets then either. I'm sorry you are so bloodthirsty that you feel demonstrations like this are appropriate.

"Obama came into office and the job was finished."

I thought you didn't go in for the Messianic mania, but this sounds a little creepy to me.

Still awaiting an apology

For the record: I do not celebrate Osama's death, as he was a man, and we cannot, should not, celebrate the death of a man, when the monster he birthed is still on the prowl, looking for Jews and Christians to kill, and when they are not available, to kill Muslim's not in perfect tune with their radically insane agenda.

I celebrate that President Obama had the guts to order the demise of Osama. I figured he couldn't/wouldn't make that choice. I did err, and apologize for that error in judging his character.

Are we through?? Oh, NO. Do we win?? Oh, NO; not until we are rescued by our LORD, and Savior, Jesus, at Armageddon, if part of the lucky 25% left alive. Ignore it, if you choose to do so, but it will happen, no matter.

Sadly, folks, we are still looking at the Seven years of false peace/Hell on Earth, of which, IMO, Islam plays a major role. The Pieces of the Tribulation puzzle are finding proper fit, and many people are about to graduate Home, to God, or Hell.

We, of Christian ilk, will relax and think we be safe; Far from that. Their Hatred runs clean to the bone, and nothing short of demise will cure an illness like that. Loving them will only make us better victims, yet Jesus says we must love, even they who kill us. By now many of you feel I am ranting, as I am, but I feel the need to try to warn you at least one more time: Get to know Jesus. He is your only way to eternal bliss, none other.

I apologize for crashing the party, but not all of you read my blog, praising God/Jesus, and we are directed to try to awaken every soul, not yet in Jesus, as soon, very soon, Salvation through Grace does END. Don't miss the Boat, this old Swab pleads.

As Noah shouted, 'All Aboard that's going aboard.' There were so few takers, he had to fill the vacancies up with animals. Oh, for shame. AMEN

(lap)dawg,

"we can blame him and not give him credit, or we refuse to blame him and give him no credit"

I was with you until the last sentence. Is this what you meant to say or are you having more literacy issues? You said that he can get no credit either way.

Still awaiting an apology

It must have been extremely difficult for a man who won the Nobel Peace Prize to go in front of the world and use the words, we killed. I'm not saying this in a derogatory way. The evil one is gone, so I say good going Mr. President and the UDT. On the lighter side, you think there will be a conspiracy theory about were Osama's body really is, I mean heck it could be in storage next to the ufo aliens at Roswell. What do you guys think huh? What do you think?

Navy,

I agree with the general theme of your post, although you added a lot more spirituality than I would as I am not evangelical, but the general idea is the same. I see no reason to celebrate either his life or his death, his existence was a tragedy imo.

Still awaiting an apology

Keda,

Why would the Nobel Prize make a difference? Wasn't he awarded that for saying he favors a reduction in nuclear weapons? I don't think the Nobel Committee is too upset that Bin Laden is dead.

Still awaiting an apology

I'm still waiting Sam for these words that you keep saying you haven't made up. You just keep saying you didn't make them up. What were the words?

So you say that we are politically divided in this country and it's mostly the left's fault? Then you wonder why there is division.

You accused Bush of torture. One of your post was titled: Mancow says it's torture.

Will you apologize for lying about GW Bush? That is a simple question, answer it.

Harry Reid: this war is lost

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18227928

Sen Dick Durbin comparing our soldiers to Nazi's and Soviets & Pol Pot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7FaSEQ-fKc

John Murtha accusing the Marines of murdering civilians

http://www.usvetdsp.com/murtha_tls.htm

Sen John Kerry saying our troops are basically dumb and lazy

http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2006/10/31/john-kerry-calls-american-military-dumb...

Sen John Kerry accusing our troops of terror http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/5/162822.shtml

The sad part about it Sam,he still won't understand..No matter how much proof u give him...

SW Nebr Transplant: Have you missed the years and years of liberal outrage over the War on Terror? Our left often seems to support terror in their fervor to keep us out of war.

Killing bin Laden does in no way eliminate the danger to the US from these fanatics. At best, it's like cutting one head off a multi-headed monster. The best way to win the War on Terror is to convince the entire world that the US has the heart and the ability to stomp anyone that kills our citizens. Of course, this would be a much simpler "sell" if our left would shut up and back our fight instead of constantly complaining and giving heart to the terrorists.

MrsSmith,

I ask again is it the right's position in your mind to have hundreds of thousands of American troops engaged abroad permanently. I am aware that many people on the left are less supportive of our military and military goals that I believe they should be, but that doesn't absolve others to expend resources and more importantly lives needlessly. I think the manner in which Bin Laden was killed lends support to the idea that we can still fight terrorists without trillions of dollars and thousands of lives lost. I also think we shouldn't be messing around in Libya.

I do agree with you than killing Bin Laden does little in the overall struggle as I indicated above. I think you give terrorists too little credit if you think they need the whining of the left in America to give them the will to kill.

Still awaiting an apology

The problem Sam us that it wasn't a lie. He has admitted to water boarding and water boarding IS torture.

so smith thinks the left should just shut up? no freedom of speech for you. questioning our leaders is out of the question, just let them make the call and support it.

"we really aren't any different than the Taliban, Hamas, etc."

who says it was the use of tourture that led to his whearabouts? I hear sam say it but that means nothing. I hear alot of right wing talking heads say it but that means nothing.

would you send troops into harms way for a war you didnt think you could win?

http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/82617/bush_suggests_war_on_terror_cannot_be...

"we really aren't any different than the Taliban, Hamas, etc."

Michael and Big Dawg do not have the class or intellegence to admit when they are wrong. That is typical of liberals.

Water boarding is not torture. Listening to you defending indefensible liberal silliness is torture.

You owe so many of us apologies, as well as George Bush, and others, it would take you days. You lack the courage to be honest and to apologize when you are wrong.

I have never been waterboarded so I cannot speak to it as good as you sham. I assume you have been waterboarded and know for fact it is not torture. That being the case your defence of waterboarding flys in the face of others who have been waterboarded who say it is torture.

Sham does not have the class or intelligence to admit when he is wrong. Listening to him defend the indefensible (torture) is torture. Ya see sam, Im just a blue collar guy getting by and people like you like to use fancy college words to make things seem better then they really are. Enhanced interrogation techniques is just fancy political college language for torture. Stick to talking about a subject you know something about although I have no idea what that would be.

The fact is, water boarding worked. Water boarding ultimately saved lives. Those who have a legitimate gripe are the 3 who were water boarded.

In re: celebrations of the death of our enemies.

I was watching PBS Newshour last night and Rev. Janet Vickers was being interviewed and she made a comment that I think helps explain the difference of opinion. She counsels families of 9/11 victims and the question was raised about celebrations. She said most people she works with didn't feel like celebrating, she said those few who did were the ones who are still filled with rage.

Her comment made me think that the reason the Liberals on this board think celebrating his death is appropriate is that they are filled with rage and hate.

Still awaiting an apology

Michael,

You made an interesting comment a while back and I forgot to mention it until now.

"President Bush started the war (which I did support) against al Qaeda."

I think this is another error in your thinking, you say Bush started the war, whil I disagree. I'd say that al Qaeda started the war on the United States in the 90's and that it wasn't until 9/11 and President Bush that we really started fighting back.

Still awaiting an apology

Who said celebrating his death was a good thing? I think it would be nice if you could let people do whatever they feel like doing without judging them or putting them down.

CPB, i think you would like to believe that torture works so you can sleep better at night knowing that the country you live in tortures people. How very christian of you to support torture.

Sam,

Once again you leave all the context out, which is apparently the only way that you can truly outrage yourself.

You said that Harry Reid attacked the troops, but unfortunately in your link Harry Reid never mentioned the troops. He was specifically talking about the war. It is possible to support the troops but not the war they have been sent to fight in.

With Dick Durbin, he was referring to a report that had been written by an FBI agent.

John Murtha made no such accusations. The Iraqi people had made the accusation and after an investigation (which you so conveniently omitted) it was found that those accusations were true.

John Kerry never called the troops dumb and lazy, you know that, and that's why you had to throw in the word "basically". He was not being unsupportive of the troops as you claim, it was nothing but added value, that you and your ilk added to it to make what he said sound as bad as possible.

The second link was a bad use of words from Kerry but it wasn't "bashing" the troops or calling all the troops "terrorists".

You live in a black and white world where you have to support all of the troops 100% of the time and anything that they do that might just seen as bad or illegal should be ignored and swept under the rug.

I know you have issues believing this but it is very possible in the real world to be supportive of the troops at the same time as holding them to the high standard we have set for the way our military acts on the battlefield. If there are a few men and women who are not doing right while representing us in military uniform they need to be addressed and kicked out of the military if they are breaking laws and codes of the United States and United States military.

"Michael and Big Dawg do not have the class or intellegence to admit when they are wrong. That is typical of liberals."

I admit when I am wrong all the time Sam, it's sad that you have to stoop to name-calling and questioning of people's intelligence just because they won't bow to their demands. It's just further proof that you will take any opportunity to trash liberals as much as possible. It's sad, really, that you have so much hate in your heart for a group of people that believe differently then you that you have gone as far as calling liberalism a mental disease. Of course you had no proof of this yet you still made the charge. There is no proof of your claim yet you have yet to apologize for calling an entire group of people mentally unstable for what they believe. I guess the street goes both ways, though I doubt you will ever admit to such.

"Water boarding is not torture. Listening to you defending indefensible liberal silliness is torture."

Water boarding is torture. Simply stating that it is not does not make it so. Really odd though, that as late as 2004 the Supreme Court had even noted that in the past the United States had regarded any form of water torture (which waterboarding falls under) as a war crime.

Torture is torture. If you are strapped down to a table and are forced to experience the simulation of "drowning" against your will you are being tortured. It is simple, cut and dry Sam.

The fact is, water boarding worked. Water boarding ultimately saved lives. Those who have a legitimate gripe are the 3 who were water boarded.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, May 4, 2011, at 7:53 AM

Okay so you say it is a "fact" CPB, where's your proof? You say it is a fact so back it up. I'm not going to disprove you on this one I want you to prove it to me.

Considering that water boarding was not used under Obama and that they strictly relied on intelligence gathering and not torturing tells me that it was the intelligence gathering that saved lives not the water boarding.

Michael, please tell me your impression of Rep King (NY), Chrmn Homeland Security Com.

Micheal,

For starters there is;

http://freedomslighthouse.net/2011/05/02/rep-peter-king-says-intelligence-that-l...

Even for the skeptical, there's'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110503/pl_afp/usattacksbinladenintelligenceguantan...

An even bigger scandal is that the identity of the killers of UBL was not to be revealed. It now appears that to source of this information, who and what team, came form the VP himself, Joe Biden. I wonder is the media will go after him like they did to Richard Armitage when he leaked Valerie Plame's identity?

(lap)dawg,

I don't know who said celebrating was a good thing. Can you enlighten me? Usually people only celebrate happy events but that is beside the point.

Still awaiting an apology

Michael,

Sorry to force my way into another conversation but you've said many times that waterboarding is torture. Where are you drawing this fact from?

Or is this an expression of your deeply held convictions?

"I admit when I am wrong all the time Sam"

Can you point me in the right direction to verify this, because from what I've seen you only hint that you might be wrong after it has been painfully proven that you are wrong, such as the whole Jared Loughner ordeal.

Still awaiting an apology

ocho,

How silly of me, I was wrong when I first thought about Michael's posting "I admit when I am wrong all the time Sam" I thought initially that he was misrepreseting reality, but suddenly after thinking for a moment it hit me........Michael is never wrong! That's why he never has to admit being wrong. I can't believe I missed that initially, but it all fits.

Still awating an apology

i didnt think you could find where a liberal said celebrating his death was acceptable. you just made it up, good job.

Chunky, I think the teachings of Jesus clearly states that torturing fellow human beings is ok to do. Im sure he would be proud of your pro torture status. It will be sad when he returns and people that think like you, snatch him up and put him in some secret prison and waterboard him to find out how he performed miracles. I never thought Jesus was a "the ends justifys the means" kind of person.

"we really aren't any different than the Taliban, Hamas, etc."

There is a huge difference between performing miracles that end human suffering and planning the demise of over three thousand people who were innocent of any crime against the Muslims. The three who were water boarded are very much alive, and don't suffer any lingering physical injuries.

But since you did mention Jesus, what would he have done? What would His true followers had done? The entire summary of Jesus' ministry on Earth was to love your neighbor as you love your self. Can we say we love Jesus if we murder our neighbor, can we say we love Jesus if we allow our neighbor to be murdered? There lies our human experience, we have choices. Some bring us closer to God, others tear us apart. That is why those of choose to believe, pray.

DAWG:

Yes, I think the American left should feel intense shame for their support of terrorists and their lack of support for their own country.

The LEAST they could possibly do is shut up and let the military finish the job without their constant crying.

The BEST they could do would be what the country did in WW2, stop screaming for more government spending at home (read "on themselves"), and start asking our government to support our military to a quick WIN instead of crying to bring them home with the job half done.

This has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech. Obviously, they are completely free to continue to say stupid things. It has a lot more to do with having the heart and class to say the correct things.

DAWG:

By the way, please show me the verse where Jesus says, "and after you have turned your cheek, go also and turn the cheek of your neighbor/child/fellow countryman."

OH, yeah, that's right...He commanded each INDIVIDUAL to turn the cheek to evil done to that specific INDIVIDUAL, but He never ever told us that we could therefore not protect our children, our neighbors, or our country.

(Just as He commanded each INDIVIDUAL to help the poor, not to vote for legislation that will tax your NEIGHBORS for money that will firstly support Uncle Sam, and then be used as Uncle Sam chooses.)

It occurs to me that all the bashing of liberals that has occurred on here (mostly by Sam and MrsSmith) and how they support terrorists (though they never back up that claim they just like to parrot what they hear) it was the supposed liberal, commie, socialist President Obama who finally made the decision to take Osama out. It wasn't George W. Bush, it wasn't a conservative, it was a Democrat, President Barack Obama.

So go ahead and keep calling liberals and Democrats mentally diseased and supportive of terrorists, because at the end of the day, the man that made the decision to actually kill Osama (and not tell a reporter that he doesn't really even think about Osama anymore as Bush did) was a Democrat.

CPB, I don't really see how you believe the second link proves your point. In the first part you have US officials stating that torture didn't reveal any ah ha moments. In the second part you have a man who has had no dealings in interrogations for years claiming he knows how the information was gathered.

I don't trust Rep King. He has been caught numerous times in the past either outright lying or stretching the truth so far out of context you can't recognize it. If he is out stating that torture played an important part of figuring out where Osama was, then my first inclination is to believe that it didn't.

"The LEAST they could possibly do is shut up and let the military finish the job without their constant crying."

"This has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech. Obviously, they are completely free to continue to say stupid things."

Make up your mind MrsSmith either you want people you don't agree with and completely misrepresent what they say to shut up or you believe that are completely free to continue saying things that you will completely take out of context. You can't have it both ways.

"It has a lot more to do with having the heart and class to say the correct things."

Then I encourage you not take comments out of context just so you can get angry over something that hasn't been said. If you believe so fervently about people having the heart and class to say the correct things then I highly encourage you to start doing it yourself.

The fact remains CPB, that as more information comes out waterboarding torture played no real role in finding Osama bin Laden. KSM was waterboarded several times and all the got out of him were false locations of Osama bin Laden. This actually goes right along with what experts have long known about torture. When people are tortured they will say just about anything to get the torture to stop. I say just about anything because they rarely are truthful with what information they give while being tortured.

The information they got from KSM that lead to the courier was obtained through standard interrogation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110503/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden_hunt_for_bin_laden

Michael,

You chastise others because: "they never back up that claim they just like to parrot what they hear" Yet you've said many times that waterboarding is torture, but haven't said where this "fact" comes from. I ask again, what reference are you citing or is this your strongly held conviction?

Still awaiting an apology

(lap)dawg,

You've changed your argument and made it one that can be answered, good job!

"i didnt think you could find where a liberal said celebrating his death was acceptable. you just made it up, good job."

Michael said he doesn't understand why people would be upset that others are celebrating. I interpret this as his feeling it is acceptable, because he took exception to my finding it unacceptable. But technically you correct he didn't say "celebrating his death is acceptable" but I'm pretty sure rational thinkers would agree with my interpretation. So I imagine you will not. I couldn't find if you've weighed in, but I suspect you are just trying to stir the pot and not input any value.

By the way not only Liberals enganged in the "celebrations" I also don't think it is appropriate for anyone else to do so either. I don't know why you tried to turn it into a Liberal/others argument.

You also said: "I think it would be nice if you could let people do whatever they feel like doing without judging them or putting them down." Is this what you do? Or is this only what you feel other people should do?

Still awaiting an apology

Michael, apparently Leon Panetta, current director of the CIA, and Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense, are not privy to the information that you have. They have both stated that yes, waterboarding was effective in obtaining VERY useful information regarding Al Qaeda. Was waterboarding the only method? NO, but it was useful. Could the info have been obtained without waterboarding? Possibly. But that cannot be proven. Can you find other governmental experts who say that waterboarding is not useful? Absolutely. I guess it depends on your outlook. And using the dictionary definition of torture, I could also state that you believe in some forms of torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

sounds like fun

Michael,

I realize this is one of those exercises in futility, but the truth is the truth.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/

I just can't wait for the reaction to that last link.....should be a doozy.

yes, great chunky, we know you are a good christian who believes there is nothing wrong with torture. for you the end justifies the means and you feel safer. we are one step closer to being like the people we are fighting and that makes you proud. I dont like torture because I feel like that is one of the differences between us and them and by doing it we have just stooped to their level.

Chunky Peanut Butter,

What a ridiculous post you made. Naturally the conservative right wing media outlet MSNBC would spread those lies to try to prop up the evil Bush regime's tactics. Why don't you try to find a Liberal or even neutral news source if you want Michael to take note. :)

Still awaiting an apology

(lap)dawg,

"by doing it we have just stooped to their level."

Personally I think it's sad that you compare Americans to terrorists. Truly, truly sad, (lap)dawg. ;)

Still awaiting an apology

im comparing them and seeing them as different, you see us as the same.

(lap)dawg,

You must be using a different definition of "stooped to their level" than I have ever seen if you think that means "different".

Still awaiting an apology

Mike, the mission is ongoing. As long as there is an enemy that is so desperate that they will strap on a bomb vest and kill their own people in greater numbers than they have killed us, our military needs to be vigilant and proactive. Seeking out the leaders, money people and enablers and killing them.

Only if our military can convince the terrorists that they will not win, that will be the only time we have any peace. Peace thru strength is the only way we will be safe

"Peace thru strength is the only way we will be safe"

Wow almost a 1984 reference.

Still awaiting an apology

"I was a little saddened at all the celebrating in the streets, but I guess it just shows we really aren't any different than the Taliban, Hamas, etc."

I am still waiting for you to clarify your statement that kids celebrating, in essence, the boogeyman of their youths dieing are no different than the Taliban. To me, had a liberal said anything like that on television he would have been skewered all over television as wanting the terrorists to win and being anti-American. If a liberal on this site had said those words you, Sam, MrsSmith, CPB, and ocho would have been demanding that the poster be removed from this site.

So, do you really believe celebrating the death of a truly evil person is tantamount to being no different than terrorists around the world?

I remember when one this country's senators (Ted Kennedy) died, there was celebration on this board. I remember when Michael Jackson died and their were posters on this site that said good riddance. Yet, then you were silent. Now, all of a sudden our troops rid the world of the man responsible for 3,000 American deaths and the children that felt terrorized by him decided to celebrate as young adults and you liken them to terrorists.

I am saddened that torture was used. We used to be a nation that NEVER tortured and was the example around the world. Sadly that seems to be behind us.

boojum,

I couldn't disagree with you more. Peace through strength accomplishes nothing, it just makes more enemies.

As I see it our job in Afghanistan is done, it's time for our troops to come home.

I will disagree with you Michael. I DO believe in peace through strength. In the words of TR, "Speak softly and carry a big stick". I believe the jihadists ridicule the perception of weakness. IF you were to poke a dog that is muzzled as opposed to poking one that is unmuzzled and able to retaliate, which one would you respect more?

Mike,

So nice to see that you disagree with several human rights organizations. Way to negate my opinion that you are a shallow liberal zelot with little to no ethics. I don't believe that we should be celebrating death in this country. If there is a person that needs to be put to death, it should be something that isn't made into a party.

"I remember when one this country's senators (Ted Kennedy) died, there was celebration on this board. I remember when Michael Jackson died and their were posters on this site that said good riddance. Yet, then you were silent. Now, all of a sudden our troops rid the world of the man responsible for 3,000 American deaths and the children that felt terrorized by him decided to celebrate as young adults and you liken them to terrorists."

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sat, May 7, 2011, at 3:23 PM

First thing, Why are you such a self hater mike? You have stated that using the bad behavior of others to justify bad behavior is repugnant. Second, which one of the posters commenting on the fact that the killing of a human shouldn't be a party, is one that celebrated the death of Ted Kennedy? If one of the posters were, then they are a jerk.

If, However, this is another one of "mike's facts" than mike, you are a scurrilous idiot.

why cant the people who want to celebrate do so? I personally think its boorish behavior but I prefer to let people do their own thing, that way I know what to make of them.

If I had a dollar for everytime I hear a right wing talking head say something to the effect of, "they do it, so we should too", i could retire. There is a fair amount of bad behavior on this board (my part in that is not small), but it seems to me that Mike gets taken to task for everything he writes and others post nonsense and no one says a thing.

My being a semi-literate pot stirer makes me feel the need to defend Mike in some way. I would be willing to bet that if mike made an account on here and wrote some of the drivil that sam writes most people on here would encourage him. Same drivil, different side.

Reading your comments I seen the name Ted Kennedy and my mind started reminiscing of yesteryear.I was not a big fan of Ted Kennedy, but did not celebrate his death. I guess I was more frustrated with privileged individuals that were above the law. Yes! I know he wasn't the only one. The year was 1969 and I had got out of the service the year before. I was renting a place in the country south of Woodriver, I had a 1946 harley and had gone home from a keg party that was by the river, it was sometime after midnight and I had to much to drink. The cops had followed me home. They came in my house and arrested me for excessive speed and drunk driving. I spent three days in the Grand Island jail. I was shackled with other inmates and we walked about a block to the court house with two deputies, if my memory serves me right. I went in front of the judge with a public defender, given to me on the spot. I was told to plead guilty " and I was" and to apologies to the court. The judge gave me a $500.00 fine and I lost my license for six months. I was then told to thank the judge. I moved out of the state a few month later.

This was about the same time as the wreck ted Kinnedy was in, we all know the story. Years later I look back and laugh at how stupid I was in my youth, this kind of behavior followed me for some time until I figured it out, it was me and not the world that was wrong. But Teds mistake might have cost him his Presidency, just a thought.

Mike, peace through weakness?

"Cry havoc! and let slip the sheep of war"

battle cry of the liberal.

I am glad you are not the one deciding how to protect this country.

I can agree with your last comment dawg; same drivel, different side. BTW, I feel that Sam takes the same amount of heat for his comments as Michael does for his. I see drivel the same as beauty, you know, in the eye of the beholder.

Michael,

"If a liberal on this site had said those words you, Sam, MrsSmith, CPB, and ocho would have been demanding that the poster be removed from this site."

Interesting though that a non-Liberal said those words and that only for that reason are you throwing a fit? I guess this further illustrates that you and the right wingers you despise are only both sides of the same coin.

I believe celebrating the death of your enemy, no matter who that enemy is, is inappropriate and shows a much more similar mindset with Hamas, Taliban, etc. than I would hope Americans have.

"I am saddened that torture was used. We used to be a nation that NEVER tortured and was the example around the world. Sadly that seems to be behind us."

Who has decided that we used TORTURE, I've asked you several times to cite what basis your claim has but, usurprisingly, you have yet to answer. If this is just your opinion, please tell us, it is fine to have a difference of opinions.

Still awaiting an apology

(lap)dawg,

"why cant the people who want to celebrate do so?"

I don't think anyone said they couldn't did they? I just expressed my feelings at their "boorish" behavior. As the immortal Henry DeSalvo once said: "Now there's no rule that says that I can't come over here and **** on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners."

" but it seems to me that Mike gets taken to task for everything he writes and others post nonsense and no one says a thing.

My being a semi-literate pot stirer makes me feel the need to defend Mike in some way. I would be willing to bet that if mike made an account on here and wrote some of the drivil that sam writes most people on here would encourage him. Same drivil, different side."

Well you and Mike are here to post. There have been many other Liberalish posters throughout the years who say things, they've all wandered off or been lost. I would rather you defend Mike because you agree with him, not just because you like to stir the pot, but I guess you can do what you want.

I fully agree with you on the drivil [sic] comment. If Mike posted right wing drivel rather than left wing drivel, I'm sure he would find much more support. But if he wanted to do that, I'm sure he would post on Huffpost or something rather than the McCook Gazette.

Still awaiting an apology

We waterboarded them therefore we tortured them. This is not simply my opinion. Waterboarding is seen as torture not only at international levels but formerly before 2001 at United States levels. The reason you believe that I have refused to answer your question is because I had already explained myself.

It does amaze me that you compared Americans celebrating to terrorists and you continue to make that comparison without really offering why you are making that comparison. You just continually say that the comparison is valid but you have yet to validate why you make that claim.

We ridded the world of a truly evil man that continuously attacked us, and your reaction is call anyone who celebrated that fact as similar to terrorists.

Mike, peace through weakness?

"Cry havoc! and let slip the sheep of war"

battle cry of the liberal.

I am glad you are not the one deciding how to protect this country.

-- Posted by boojum666 on Sun, May 8, 2011, at 9:16 AM

I forget that you see the world in simply black and white. I never said peace through weakness, but naturally that didn't stop you from making the claim that I did. There are different ways to make peace than through simple strength or force. We were in a perpetual threat of war with the Soviet Union for almost 45 years and yet no battles were fought between the two countries. I wouldn't necessairly call that peace through weakness. Maybe you would, but I guess that's where we differ.

Interesting that you make a poke at liberals for being weak kneed and yet the resident liberal in chief (as you believe he is) made the decision that led to Osama's death on nothing more than a 50/50 chance.

So here's the conundrum. All we have heard for the last 10 years is how weak liberals and Democrats are on terrorism, yet the man who finally made the decision to send troops to actually take out Osama bin Laden is a Democrat (and described by many as a liberal and definitely weak on terrorism). So what do you do?

You have shown what many Republicans and conservatives are doing, they are simply ignoring the fact of what actually happened and are still trying to define Democrats and liberals as weak on terrorism. It's quite an interesting thing to watch, this huge level of denial.

If you are requesting validation Michael, how about validating your claim that "peace through strength makes more enemies". If that is your "opinion", why is sw not entitled to his/her opinion? And I am still waiting your response to my claim that according to the Houghton/Mifflin (sp?) dictionary definition of torture, you believe in some types of torture.

If it is not peace through strength, what else would it be?

If the soviets could have convinced themselves that they had the upper hand we would have been dust.

We were perceived to be at least as strong as they through mutually assured destruction.

Cry Heck! let slip the cats of war!

Mike,

Are you saying that no one died because of the cold war or that no battles were fought directly between the soviet union and america? Just curious. And are you saying that conservative (or whatever) leaders are more courageous than liberals? If the current presidents actions in a wartime situation mean that he is not weak kneed, by which I am taking to mean that you consider it courageous, what about non-liberal presidents that made hard decisions?

Michael,

"Waterboarding is seen as torture not only at international levels but formerly before 2001 at United States levels"

So what your saying for American purposes is that waterboarding is NOT classified as torture but that you follow "international levels" guidelines that view it as torture. What other international rules do you follow instead of American ones? I am satisfied that you have answered the question and that since we live in the United States after 2001 that waterboarding is torture in some people's OPINION. I'm trying to be fair Michael, I didn't say it was "simply your opinion" I know this is the opinion of many people. But many people also believe that Honda makes the best cars, but that doesn't necessarily make it so either.

"We ridded the world of a truly evil man that continuously attacked us, and your reaction is call anyone who celebrated that fact as similar to terrorists."

I'm not sure where to go with this sentence, I could be the vocabulary police in a couple of ways but I think I'll just let it slide.

I thought my comparison was easy to understand and was, naturally, exaggerated to make a point. But I guess you don't understand what I meant, I'll try to spell it out so even you can understand it.

When Hamas feels it has won a victory over Israel, usually by killing people, they gather mobs to go and celebrate in the street. The Taliban does the same, although their fight is not against Israel. When mobs of Americans gather and celebrate in the streets over the killing of an evil man, we are engaging in the same behavior. I had hoped that Americans were more "civilized" than that, and because we aren't I was saddened. That is the extent of my comparison and hopefully you understand what I was comparing now. If not, let me know and I'll try to explain it in a different way.

Why didn't you take (lap)dawg to task when he compared us to terrorists by saying we stooped to their level? Really he made almost the exact same comparison that I did, interestingly you don't take the time to hassle him about it several times.

Still awaiting an apology

Mike,

If the police would have burst down Timothy McVeigh's door and shot him without trying to apprehend him would you celebrate?

I have a very simple solution to the waterboarding issue, those who feel it's not torture, try it out for a week, see if like it, if you do then promote it. For those that feel its torture, try it, you might like it. Then and only then will you know for sure. See! that wasn't hard was it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

sounds like fun

it says the u.s. hung japanese for waterboarding u.s. prisoners of war in ww2

Michael,

"I couldn't disagree with you more. Peace through strength accomplishes nothing, it just makes more enemies."

Wow I'm almost speechless here. I'm not sure how I missed it when you first posted it. I think the most disturbing part of your comment is that you fancy yourself headed for a career in history education. Seriously, study history before you try to teach it please. I know you couldn't get permanent status or tenure or whatever they call it now on your last go around. But apparently the graduate program at prestigious ATU is worse than I thought

Does your comment explain why Germany, Italy, and Japan are three of our greatest enemies today?

Still awaiting an apology

SW,

Don't be a fool, Those 3 countries were defeated when we had a president that was a member of the Democratic party. That is why only need to wait for the Al Quaeda to become our friends. It should happen any day now.

"That is why only need to wait for the Al Quaeda to become our friends."

welcome to the class of the semi literate

Of course it doesn't SW, but what does that have to do with anything. Not surprisingly your only course when you disagree with people is to full on attack them.

I will be graduating in the fall with a Masters in History. I'm sorry to inform you of that but it is true.

Then again you think my blog is a waste yet you continue to post on it so one has to question your thought process.

Michael,

"Of course it doesn't SW, but what does that have to do with anything"

It directly refutes your previous comment that peace through strength only creates more enemies. We emerged victorious through greater strength in wars against those three nations and now are allied with all of them. Therefore your stupid comment is blatantly WRONG. If you are going to teach history you should at least know something about WWII I would think.

"I will be graduating in the fall with a Masters in History. I'm sorry to inform you of that but it is true."

Why are you sorry? I would be proud of my achievements. Or are you sorry at the quality of education you recieved? I think you maybe should be since you show a remarkable ignorance of history.

Still awaiting an apology

The only one who shows a remarkable ignorance of history is you SW since you continually rewrite history to benefit yourself.

We fought Germany, Japan, and Italy in World War 2 chiefly because Japan attacked us and Germany and Italy declared war on us. It had nothing to do with peach through strength.

They are allies today because after the war we stayed behind and helped them rebuild their countries, not because we showed them how strong we were. We found victory through strength, but we found peace through diplomacy and helping them after the fact.

Actually what I am sorry about is the fact that no matter how often you attempt to tear down my education I will be graduating with a Masters in December. Then again, as I previously stated your gross misunderstanding and complete rewriting of history should not be overlooked. Maybe, instead of ripping others on their education level you should study just a little harder, or at the very least start studying.

Michael,

Nice, once again you go with "I know you are but what am I?"

"They are allies today because after the war we stayed behind and helped them rebuild their countries, not because we showed them how strong we were."

Aren't you making a chicken or the egg argument here? If we hadn't had more strength we wouldn't have won the war and been able to help them rebuild. But that really wasn't my point, my point is to show the lie to your comment about admitting when you are wrong. Weak parties don't achieve peace, at least not on good terms, through diplomacy without strength to support it, for a current example look at how NATO rebuffs Gadafi.

What history have I rewritten? You have at least twice recently tried to rewrite UBL as the mastermind of 9/11 to suit your purposes.

"Maybe, instead of ripping others on their education level you should study just a little harder, or at the very least start studying."

Interesting premise, how much do you know about my education? I know you finished your undergraduate when you were about 30 and couldn't keep a job teaching, which is what you went to school for, although at a older age than many of your fellow new teacher peers. I know you attended graduate school, not while teaching, in the way that you said many teachers do. Presumably because you weren't successful in your initial teaching foray. But I may be wrong about prestigious ATU, there must be many honored and distinguished alumni, perhaps you can enlighted me. I just have a poor percecption because you can apparently get a graduate degree from there, and given your arguments and writing ability shown on this blog, I am forced to assume the program is neither very rigorous nor selective.

Still awaiting an apology

"Maybe, instead of ripping others on their education level you should study just a little harder, or at the very least start studying."

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, May 11, 2011, at 5:13 PM

Mike,

I don't think that this is fair, and seems sorta juvenile to me. I don't recall SW ever questioning anyone's education level, least of all yours. But he does frequently question, (and rightly so in my opinion) your retention and understanding of what you have supposedly learned. He also questions (and rightly so in my opinion) your intelligance.

Me? I question your emotional and mental well being. And no, not because I believe liberalism is a mental disease, just because of many other things you have said. The newest thing is your obsession with shadowy "they" groups.

Oh, well, at least the fact that you don't know anyone else's education level on the boards keeps you from feeling even more inadaquate than you seem to. I am sure it gives you reason to feel superior to people that don't have your "education level". Of course in the immortal words of Dr. John, "your edjamacation aint no hipper than what you understand!"