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The Hypocrisy Bug

Posted Tuesday, February 22, 2011, at 8:47 AM

My how two years can change a group of people. I am sure you all remember back to the health care debate that swept this country a few years back. Thousands of people in cities and towns all over this country were protesting the proposed health care law. They were interrupting town hall meetings and shouting over those that supported the proposed law. The media fell in love with this group, known as the TEA Party. These people were truly patriotic and were fully using their right to peacefully assemble and protest the government. If you opposed the group at all you were castigated as hating America and her freedoms.

We fast forward to today and Wisconsin. Several thousand people have been outside the capitol in that state protesting the governor's attempt to take away their bargaining rights. The media, however (and many that were in the group of protesters a few years back) are having none of it. They are displaying absolute hate for these people. Joe Scarborough, of that liberal "bastion" station MSNBC took it a step further by stating, on national television characterized the teachers, specifically of being sick and selfish.

To me, both arguments are roughly the same, rights and freedoms. The people a few years ago wanted the right and the freedom to not take health insurance if they did not want it and also the right and the freedom not to have to pay for people that do. The people today want the right and freedom to have bargaining rights. The freedom to join a union in order to ensure that their pay doesn't suffer. Teachers are completely underpaid for the services they offer and the governor of Wisconsin wants to take away their right to have a union.

So why is one groups freedoms and rights so much more important than the others that the media largely gives them a pass and the others isn't to the point they are being called unAmerican for protesting?

There is no reason. None.

It is all politics, once again. The same groups and people that supported the TEA Party and their efforts, one would think, should support what is going on in Wisconsin. Both situations are about rights and freedoms. Here's the caveat. The group in Wisconsin is fighting for their rights as American citizens to be able to keep their unions and bargaining rights. The governor is simply making a power move. This is something he readily admits. This move to dissolve bargaining rights and unions is all about union busting. It has nothing to do with the budget. He has admitted to this. So here, we have a governor, who is saying right up front that he is trying to take their rights away. This should be something right up the TEA Party's alley. Instead, they are publicly infiltrating the organizations that are protesting in hopes of derailing them. It seems low class to me, but maybe, this is just the modern American way now. I hope not.

There are also those that are telling the protesters to get over themselves because this is exactly what the governor campaigned on and got elected on. To me, these protesters remind me completely of the Obama protesters. Obama campaigned and got elected in part due to his pledge to overhaul healthcare and his promise of all Americans getting healthcare. They still protested. What makes them right, and the ones in Wisconsin wrong? What makes it okay for them to protest, but the protesters in Wisconsin are told to take it like a man and go home?

They are called union thugs. The ones that are shouting the loudest against the protesters like to throw out "facts" that have no basis in truth. That can not prove what they are saying is true, but you had better not ask them to prove what they are saying. For one they will either ignore you or frame you as being someone who hates America for simply asking them for their sources.

I thought it was foolish to compare protesters of health care to Nazis, I think it is foolish to compare the protesters now to Nazis. I have always thought it foolish (and to be honest ignorant) to compare anything Obama has said or done to Nazis. I believe it foolish to compare anything that Walker has said and done to the Nazis or Hitler. Those that do it on both sides have no clue of history and only water down history when they do it. I am a big believer of history repeating itself but calling someone a Nazi or Hitler just because you do not like them or their policies is, dare I say it, dumb. Let us wait until they actually start acting like it before making the comparisons.

The protesters are being called spoiled brats by the same people that just two years ago were calling the protesters true Americans and true patriots. Hypocrite thy name is you.

Those that try to frame (and currently that is the favorite past time of sofa jockies) the protests in Wisconsin as the unions trying to keep the wallets fat really have no idea of what is actually going on in Wisconsin. They pretend they do, but in reality they are just spouting off what they are being told to say by their favorite media darling. The protests are much deeper than that. These protests are about the unions trying protect their rights. You would think that a governor trying to take the rights away from his people, and the people standing up and telling him that he can not, in fact, do that, would be something the protesters of two years ago and their supporters would get behind and applaud. Instead they are met with indignation and disgust.

I may not have agreed with the protesters of two years ago, I may not have agreed with how they acted in town halls when they would not even let others with different ideas talk, but I never thought they should just get over it, shut up, and go home. Protesting is an American institution. Whether I agree with you or not, if you want to protest go right ahead and protest. It is your right, it is also my right to disagree with you.

Vilifying those you do not agree with is, to me, sick and selfish. Lying about why they are protesting is disgusting.

If, as you say, you are for the rights and freedoms of all Americans then why on earth are you trying to paint today's protesters in such a negative light and completely different than the protesters you supported just two years ago? They are exactly the same.

UPDATE: It now appears that Walker is seriously wanting to circumnavigate the Constitution. There are reports that he is attempting to clear the capital of all protesters, which of course is a complete violation of the Constitution. I wonder, where are the cries of ripping up the Constitution? Could it be absolutely true that one group believes that their group should be able to protest by any means they see fit while another should be restricted?


Comments
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You know I would take what you are saying with a grain of salt, if you could prove any of it. But you can't. Wisconsin wasn't in a mess until Walker became governor, and to be frank nothing he is doing now would have any effect on the budget in that state. That's one of those facts you don't like to talk about.

I also know of the "fraudulently misusing sick leave or comp time" claim you are making. I'm sure it means nothing to you that it has already been debunked (the same day it came out as these stories usually are). You will just keep pushing that it is true.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 9:03 AM

Again a blog full of half facts, at best. Do you ever just tell the whole truth, Mike? I mean, I know you're a lib, but really, this gets so old.

Maybe you could point out to us how many schools were shut down by the TeaParty demonstrations? Our children already get a lousy education compared to any other civilized nation, and these teachers would rather haul them into the street to demand more money than keep them in class. And they are doing that all, every minute of it, on taxpayer money. As Wisconsin gets Federal money, the entire country is paying these teachers to lie about being sick while they demand money the state doesn't have. Such wonderful examples to their students!!

Wisconsin has to balance their budget. Walker is trying - as he readily admits - to save thousands of jobs by having public employees pay some of their own insurance and retirement costs...the way private employees already do. But just like typical libs, these teachers would rather see massive lay-offs than start paying their fair share.

This move by Walker also affects mostly a law that was only passed in 2009. If the public employees of the state managed for the last multiple decades without this law, odds are really good they could manage without it now, too.

Oh, and having "doctors" standing on street corners handing out fraudulent sick leave statements has not been debunked. It's been recorded, and some of the doctors have even been tracked down by name and address, so yet another UN-fact.

-- Posted by MrsSmith on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 9:30 AM

Actually MrsSmith, that story was debunked within hours of the story coming out. Also, the reason that teachers are having to call in sick is because it is illegal to strike in the state of Wisconsin. That seems to be a huge assault on the right of the people to me.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 9:42 AM

Perhaps this is a good time to ask a question, that has bothered me for years: If Unions represent the 'worker,' in a financial association with an Employer (be it any legal employer), and the 'worker' has the right to join, or not join the Union, for representation, From where comes the law that says an Employer does not have the right to NOT participate with 'workers' that be members of a Union??

Unions are organizations, originally designed to negotiate, through the power of member numbers, to provide the member workers with 'decent' benefits, and pay. Employers have the same right to refuse to negotiate with the organization, who, IMO, cares nothing for the survivability of the Employer, only the member, workers.

But I rant: Where does it say that any Employer MUST knuckle under to UNIONS, even when they do not wish to associate with the Union??

Shades of Obama-care system?? I feel that people have a right to belong to a Union, and that the Employer has the same right, not to negotiate with, nor recognize said Union. Should Union workers (in this case teachers) demand that their Union be allowed to represent them, then the Employer has the right to terminate their employment, and hire workers (in this case teachers), willing to work at what the community considers fairly offered recompense.

-- Posted by Navyblue on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 11:02 AM

yeah ocho, i remember when the republicans shut down the government under clinton. It was wrong to do that. excellent point

-- Posted by president obama on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM

Following is a link to an interesting article about this subject in the Omaha World Herald, Jan. 20, 2011.

http://nsea.org/news/media/OWH-Its_About...

-- Posted by Geezer on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 1:04 PM

ochosinco

I will let each reader take from the article what they see fit.

-- Posted by Geezer on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 1:27 PM

I am suprised they aren't ambulances driving all over mccook right now because of so many sane peoples heads exploding from reading all these posts.. well he said.. well she said.. well back in 1986.. well I have never lived in Wisconsin I am just going off what I hear but I know for sure whats going on up there and I know whats right.. I have a 4th cousin who lives up there I think and he said that.......

If you take one Ochosinco and you add a captainobvious.. then you know what that equals???

A moldy apple pie from Mrs. Smith that you are all advised to toss out!!!!!

-- Posted by CLUELESS SW NE on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:01 PM

"I also know of the "fraudulently misusing sick leave or comp time" claim you are making. I'm sure it means nothing to you that it has already been debunked (the same day it came out as these stories usually are). "

Followed by:

"Also, the reason that teachers are having to call in sick is because it is illegal to strike in the state of Wisconsin."

Classic Mike! So are the claims they are calling in sick false like you said first or is it that they have to call in sick fraudulently because their contracts expect them to be available to teach?

You can't even keep your own story straight, why criticize others?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:11 PM

Also,

Why is the conservative response to this any different than the liberal response to conservative protests?

If you are for rights and freedoms why Mike, why did you paint the Park 51 protestors, or Arizona Immigration supporters in such a negative light? Is that when you were bitten by the hyporcisy bug?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:13 PM

I read that the union was willing to make wage and benifit concession's that Walker was asking for. If that is the case why go after collective barganing? The union and the state government neogiate wage and benifits, if the state cant afford to pay then why would they agree to the contract? How much sense does that make?

-- Posted by president obama on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:35 PM

lets hear more from our resident expert on hypocrisy. amazes me how ANY disagreement with Michaels viewpoint is either a lie or an insult.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 6:15 PM

When you are accustomed to making over $100,000 average per teacher, with all your medical insurance and retirement provided by the government, what do you do when asked to pay for 7% of your medical insurance and 7% of your retirement funding?

You call in sick and go to the capitol to protest!

After all, you have always put the kids first, right? And the state right after them, and yourselves last? You are never greedy like you accuse business people of being.

The difference is you don't have to pay businesses who charge too much. You don't get that choice when you pay taxes.

BTW I personally know a guy in Wisconsin who works for a large international company. His employer suspended contributions to 401Ks 2 YEARS ago--they pay nothing while WI pays 100% for its employees.

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 9:43 PM

Michael accuses me of ignoring facts for the purpose of shoring up my own opinion.

Well, here is one for you Michael. Your "sick days debunked" theme is wrong. We are used to you being wrong - however here is your proof. (something you didn't provide - big surprise)

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/20...

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/02/fake...

http://www.breitbart.tv/doctors-helping-...

One more thing. You're really making a stretch comparing an unconstituional healthcare bill that was jammed down the throats of ALL Americans to the plight of teachers in Wisconsin. Walker is living up to what he promised he would when he ran for election. He is asking the teachers to pay 12.5% for their own healthcare and 5.8% for their own pensions. Big sacrifice.

The Wisconsin educational system received over 669 million in federal grant money in 2008 (the last year for NCES published data), you think the employees could handle a mere fraction of their own benefits?

-- Posted by Mickel on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 10:25 PM

I see that the national average is 30% captian, so wisconsin is above the average. I would say they must be doing something right. Perhaps you missed that paragraph in the link you posted.

Still no response to my first post either. Im not going to argue because the majority of posters refuse to look at any issue through a different lens but I would like to get your thought on my first post.

-- Posted by president obama on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 7:35 AM

bigdawg,

You raise an interesting point. However, I think you ignore the larger picture in your blind support for the Unions.

If only 30% of students are proficient, shouldn't we all be asking why that is acceptable? Your lauding of Wisconsin's 34% proficient is deplorable in my opinion. You have the gall to say "they must be doing something right", I cannot countenance that stance and must say everyone is doing a great deal wrong.

I'm not saying the horrible education is the fault of the Unions or any one party, but to continue to support the status quo is obviously untenable.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 9:57 AM

First for those that were heckling me for most of the day for "running away" from questions I had a family medical emergency. I'm sorry my life interrupted you. I won't let it happen again.

Secondly, Mickel, all three of those links have been debunked. Not only that Breitbart was shown to have completely doctored the videos of Acorn, so why should he be trusted now?

Third, welcome back, again, SW.

Fourth, basically what I am seeing from the posters here is that you support the rights to protest as long as you support the reason they are protesting. If you don't support the reason they are protesting, you do everything you can do to slime them and drag every single one of them through the mud. Facts don't matter as long as you can paint a nasty picture of them. I guess I shouldn't be all the surprised, but I guess that's the hopeful romantic in me. I guess I had assumed that if you supported one group's right to protest, you would support all groups rights to protest, even if you didn't agree with them.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:13 AM

obvious I have a good idea how you feel about gays and lesbians through your insistence to call a lesbian by a man's name but enough is enough. I'm asking you respectively to stop.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:15 AM

5th, I have learned long ago that on this blog the only thing hated more than lawyers and of course liberals (or "leftists") are teachers. It's amazing, none of you would have graduated high school without the help of a teacher, but your contempt for them is so deep that you willingly slime them and trash them for all the problems we face as a society. You group all teachers into one simple category that you can trash and vilify any time you want and then take offense when people do the same to you.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:20 AM

Mike,

Please show me where a poster says they don't have the right to protest as you indicate here.

"what I am seeing from the posters here is that you support the rights to protest as long as you support the reason they are protesting"

Why did you speak so negatively of protesters you don't agree with if you think it is anti-democratic for others who disagree with you to do so? Why are you coming down on posters here for expressing that they disagree with the protesters? Again that old hypocrisy bug perhaps?

"I'm asking you respectively to stop."

When you are only addressing one person with one request you can't ask them respectively, to ask respectively there must be more than one person involved.

If 30% proficient readers is acceptable to the teachers, I think they need to be villified along with the rest of society that is more worried about personal interests than education. Seriously Mike, how are you going to spin teachers not teaching to show they support the children? Any comment on your apparent contradictory statements I pointed out above?

"You group all teachers into one simple category that you can trash and vilify any time you want and then take offense when people do the same to you."

DO YOU REALLY NOT SEE YOUR OWN HYPOCRISY HERE MIKE? YOU DO THIS ALL THE TIME TO "CONSERVATIVES" WHY DO YOU CRY WHEN THEY DO IT TO YOU?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:35 AM

Mike,

I hope your family emergency has resolved favorably.

However, I will continue to heckle you for running away from questions, because you do it even when sitting at your computer.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:36 AM

I hope your family emergency has resolved favorably.

However, I will continue to heckle you for running away from questions, because you do it even when sitting at your computer.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:36 AM

Nice to see that nothing has changed since your one person walk out on my blog.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:42 AM

Anyone foolish enough to believe that you were talking about a Georgia lawyer who doesn't have a show even though you claim in one post the lawyer does is foolish enough to believe anything else you say.

You painted yourself into a corner and you are now attempting (horribly) to lie yourself out of it. I would correct myself and ask you again respectfully to stop but I know you won't so I will just take other actions.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:47 AM

"If 30% proficient readers is acceptable to the teachers, I think they need to be villified along with the rest of society that is more worried about personal interests than education. Seriously Mike, how are you going to spin teachers not teaching to show they support the children? Any comment on your apparent contradictory statements I pointed out above?"

I wasn't involved in this conversation previously. Could you please point out to me where teachers are saying that 30% is acceptable? I know that one poster pointed out that Wisconsin's proficiency is above the national level so they must be doing something right. The poster never said acceptable but you spun it that way anyways so you could slam the poster but Wisconsin is obviously doing something that proficiency is going up. Is it acceptable? Not even close but it is a step in the right direction.

I realized I asked you if you point out where any teachers have said that 30% was acceptable. It was a rhetorical question. You won't find any. Teachers work tirelessly day in and day out to teach students just so you can come on here and trash them for a perceived statement you seemed to dream out of thin air.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 11:55 AM

"" Happy obvious?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:07 PM

"Nice to see that nothing has changed since your one person walk out on my blog"

Why should my view of you change, since you haven't changed your hypocritical, ideologue ways?

"Could you please point out to me where teachers are saying that 30% is acceptable?"

I didn't say teachers say 30% is acceptable, if they do I disagree with them. See when you try to say I said things I didn't, you make yourself look unintelligent. Nice try to spin there Mike, but it doesn't work. So do you think 34% proficiency is acceptable? I don't. I also wouldn't consider it "doing something right" without acknowledging as I stated they are doing a whole lot wrong.

Lets take a deeper look at that 34% and your opinion that they are doing something right. According to that article, in 1998 Wisconsin spent about $6500 in 2008 dollar per student while they now spend over %10,500. In ten years and at about $4000 more per student the rates are exactly the same. This is your definition of "doing somthing right"? Not mine.

I haven't trashed teachers, I find fault in the education system.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:14 PM

Back to running away from questions, I have tried to repond to yours, are you going to answer mine? Or will you run away from them as you usually do, while trying to pick apart tangential statements?

You even quoted some of my questions back to me and still didn't answer.

Some things never change.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:16 PM

"If 30% proficient readers is acceptable to the teachers, I think they need to be villified along with the rest of society that is more worried about personal interests than education."

That was posted by you. Simply putting an IF in front of the statement doesn't change your intent. You're twisting in the wind again.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:19 PM

"Mike, but it doesn't work. So do you think 34% proficiency is acceptable? I don't. I also wouldn't consider it "doing something right" without acknowledging as I stated they are doing a whole lot wrong."

I believe you should read all of my posts before posting questions to me that I have already answered.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:22 PM

Then let me pose this question to you SW. What are teachers doing that is right?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:23 PM

Im not lauding the 32 percent of students in wisconsin. Im simply saying that they are above average. Is 32% more then the 30% national average? It was posted on here as a slam to the teachers of wisconsin, i did not bring it up. I just found it interesting that they are above average.

So transplant, if we got rid of collective barging you believe that the scores would go up?

Is the wisconsin score above average? Its a simple question. Next time obvious puts up a link he should read the whole article.

-- Posted by president obama on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:28 PM

I guess I have never seen anyone take anything that is above average and berate it so badly as you.

-- Posted by president obama on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:49 PM

I recall a lot of politicos, talking heads, and bloggers questioning why anyone was protesting against the governor because he was simply living up to his campaign promises. The only problem is that he never campaigned on taking away the citizens of Wisconsin's right to bargain, which is exactly what he is trying to do.

It is also very interesting that for two years now all we have heard is how government needs to be more transparent. Yet in Wisconsin, the governor puts a non-budget item (doing away with bargaining rights) into a budget proposal and then the party in control in the state tries to push the budget proposal through with no debate and no amendments allowed. Those same people who were demanding transparency and time to read and debate are now applauding the Wisconsin governor and state lawmakers doing exactly what they were against.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 12:50 PM

Mike,

Yeah sorry about that question if you thought it acceptable, I didn't catch that until I had submitted it.

However I find it telling that of all the things I've posted that is what you respond to, classic.

"Simply putting an IF in front of the statement doesn't change your intent."

Actually Mike, putting "if" in front of a statement does change the meaning. Ask some of your English teacher friends if you don't understand it. That makes it a conditional statement rather than a declaration. Let's play a little game....can you tell me if these two statements are the same or different"

"If you go to the store, buy me a soda."

"You go to the store, buy me a soda."

Anything?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:27 PM

Mike,

I don't have enough time to assess every teacher I know, some do things well others don't. Isn't that how you find the teachers you know? Or are they all perfect?

What sort of examples do you want? You left it pretty vague. Again please consider my words, I haven't trashed teachers. I could go on about teachers especially those who can't get tenured but I won't unless you really want me to.

I would rather you answer some of my questions. What about you?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:31 PM

That's pretty much what I thought you would post, SW.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:39 PM

bigdawg,

I am happy to continue this conversation if you will indulge me.

I'm sorry if I overstated your support of the Wisconsin teachers. However, you seem to think they are doing a good job, is this correct or not? You and later Mike stated they "must be doing something right", do you still believe this to be the case? I think 66% below proficiency is doing more wrong than right.

My comments were meant as commentary on the entire education system and the apparent acceptance of mediocrity that your comments indicating that 32% MUST be good because it's better than average, while I challenge that 33% performance is acceptable.

Did you read my comment to Mike about the increase in money spent and lack of results? Would you consider this "doing something right"?

I think people in the United States should be berating "above average" if that average percent is a number so low that if it were a grade in school it would be failing by a considerable margin.

I don't know if the proposed changes in Wisonsin will improve results but there is at least 10 years of evidence from that article that years of the status quo is not. Do you refute that?

I asked this question of you on another blog, but what is the benefit of collective barganing?

Oops I almost forgot, Wisconsin's 34% is above the national average. Do you think that is a good goal?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:41 PM

Mike,

Does that mean you refuse to answer any questions or address the blatant inconsistencies in your comments?

You gotta meet me halfway here Mike, you ask a question and I try to answer it. You appear to be running away from my questions.

Also which is what you thought I would post there was a couple of posts there, or are you so prescient that you are back to "KNOWING" what I think? :)

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:44 PM

Mike,

Simple question since you avoided all others. Do you think it is right for Governor Walker to push through his proposed changes?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:54 PM

I couldn't help it but I laughed watching the chariots of fire clip, but you really shouldn't pick on Mike for his physical attributes. It is so easy to pick on him for his words.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 2:32 PM

"My comments were meant as commentary on the entire education system"

or just as likely they were meant to frame bigdawg (and later myself) as saying something he didn't, and then unbelievably continuing to insist that is what he meant by questioning what he meant. He stated it pretty clearly twice. Yet you continue to attempt to frame his comments as celebrating 34% or 30% as good. For the record not a single poster has stated that. I have even gone as far as stating quite clearly that those numbers are not acceptable, yet that seems to not phase you from claiming that statements that have not been made were made.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 5:53 PM

Do I think it's right for the governor of a state to take rights away from people? No I do not. I am assuming this is some reference to my supposed support of the new mandated health care law to go into place in this nation in 2014. The question is quite obviously an attempt by you to point out some hypocrisy on my part.

I don't agree with the taking of right of anyone, I believe I have made that pretty clear.

Now, can you an answer a really simple question? Because I would love to hear an answer from you. What are teachers doing that is right?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 5:58 PM

Mike -seen oil prices lately? I suppose my statement on your blog in September when oil was $75 and my model said oil was going to $105 in March was not so irresponsible or stupid or conservative.

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 5:05 AM

Mike,

I forget you are too simple for subtle points in discussion, you only respond to name calling and rudeness.

"The question is quite obviously an attempt by you to point out some hypocrisy on my part"

Actually I think a lot of what I do is SUCCEED to point out hypocrisy on your part. ;) If you use this as an example of right wing hypocrisy, how do you try to spin it that it is not hypocrisy on your part? Personally I agree it is hypocritical for conservatives to cry about the same things they do, just as it is when liberals do. That is the difference, you only cry hypocrisy when the right exhibits it.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 9:07 AM

Mike,

I asked for what specifically you wanted to know what teachers are doing right which you refused to, I assume this is just keeping in line with your continued practice of running away from any question, no matter how harmless.

Since you refused to clarify what you wanted, you'll have to forgive me if I don't answer the question to your satisfaction.

What teachers are doing right:

1. Working to help children learn to read and write.

2. Providing a safe and caring environment for children.

3. Putting up with smart mouthed teens without strangling them.

4. Not molesting the children in thier care.

5. Driving safely in school zones.

6. Working to include all children in the class, trying to teach in a method each child understands.

I'm not really sure how many things you want me to list. Is this ok or do you want more?

Now, if you would go back to what I said and stop trying to ascribe words to me I didn't utter, you would see I didn't say anything bad about teachers. Teachers are just like any other professional, some are good some are bad and don't get tenure. Some are bad and do get tenure. Do you think teachers do anything wrong?

Are you going to answer any of my questions? I really am waiting for a response about your obvious inconsitencies.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 9:17 AM

Mike,

You did say 30% isn't acceptable, I never said you didn't. I took offence that you think 34% is "doing something right" since it is 4% higher than the average. Do you deny you said that?

Why do you think in 10 years with an almost 160% increase is spending without any measurable progress you think they are "doing something right"?

Also, bigdawg made several comments which I took as him supporting the work of the system in Wisconsin. He said, as you did, they are "doing something right" he also castigated me for feeling that 34% isn't acceptable even though it is above average. Personally I think he is capable of responding for himself if he chooses and doesn't need your help.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 9:24 AM

Mike,

"or just as likely"

You're falling into bad habits again. Why do you think everything I say as an opinion is a lie? I'm feeling a little sad you imply I lie regularly, when you correct what I say with what I must have meant or thought in your opinion.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 9:26 AM

Yes,I think HYPOCRITES fits them quite well.

FOX talking heads are all card carrying union members. Funny, they don't mention it. They are members of "The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists." Union representing professional actors, dancers, singers, and broadcasters. (AFTRA)

Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin....... are members of AFTRA yet do not want teachers to have the right to collective bargaining?

"AFTRA Union for entertainers

that negotiates salaries, enforces safe working conditions, sponsors employer-paid health and retirement benefits, provides scholarships, and generally makes your life easier. Performers or journalists in television, radio and the recording industry

can join. This includes actors, soap opera actors, singers, game show hosts

, newscasters, audio-book narrators-just about any person who is seen or heard in the broadcasting world."

Glen Beck voted on pages 5, 7, & 14

Glenn Beck is a member of AFTRA, LA Local 2010

Here is their voting within their union:

www.aftra.com...

These same people are calling for collapse of the unions and collective bargaining,

while taking advantage of their own benifits.earned the same way!

Hipocrites all of them!!!!

-- Posted by Wildhorse on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 3:47 PM

"Mike,

I asked for what specifically you wanted to know what teachers are doing right which you refused to, I assume this is just keeping in line with your continued practice of running away from any question, no matter how harmless.

Since you refused to clarify what you wanted, you'll have to forgive me if I don't answer the question to your satisfaction."

SW, it was rather a simple question yet you seem to be completely stumped by it and once again you blame me for that. Fine.

You points are very general but I was happy that you were able to come up with some generic answers, though I'm not entirely sure what driving the posted speed through a school zone has to do with teaching.

I've also stated over and over again why getting their kids above the national level is something right but for some reason this "simple (as you called me, boy I'm glad you don't name call or label as you have stated several times)" man's answers seem to be completely escaping you. Both bigdawg and I have given you answers yet you continue to ask the same questions as if you didn't understand or just didn't read.

So I will try again. The reason I believe they are doing something right is because they are going in the right direction. Being above the national average is the right direction. Is it acceptable? Again I will tell you that no it is not acceptable.

When you throw money at a broken system that is governed by a broken design you get the results you see. No Child Left Behind had horrible design plans when it was rolled out under Bush. It has forces school to actually start standardize testing Kindergartners. The other problem with NCLB is that it was completely unfunded. If states wanted help from the federal government on NCLB they had to find their own ways to fund it.

When Obama came into office I had hoped he would get rid of NCLB, instead he has decided to revamp it, which is a horrible decision.

I hope this, finally and again, answers your question regarding the 34%-30% debate.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 3:55 PM

One thing that has escaped a large segment of the those opposed to the protesters (not strikers, though, no one is on strike, another reason that whole phony story on doctors handing out notes was debunked), whether it be they are uninformed or just flat out lying is that the protests have nothing to do with wanting more money. In fact, the unions involved made huge concessions to the governor to have several of their benefits cut or for them to pay money for benefits.

So when people use this argument they are flat out incorrect on it. The protesters are there because the governor is attempting to take away their rights at bargaining, something he did not campaign on.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 3:59 PM

"I also know of the "fraudulently misusing sick leave or comp time" claim you are making. I'm sure it means nothing to you that it has already been debunked (the same day it came out as these stories usually are). "

Followed by:

"Also, the reason that teachers are having to call in sick is because it is illegal to strike in the state of Wisconsin."

Classic Mike! So are the claims they are calling in sick false like you said first or is it that they have to call in sick fraudulently because their contracts expect them to be available to teach?

You can't even keep your own story straight, why criticize others?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:11 PM

Actually SWNebr I misspoke, simple as that. If they were to want to strike they would be forced to call in sick, I believe it is called a sick-out, because it is illegal to strike in Wisconsin. That alone seem to me to be a huge violation of their rights.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 5:22 PM

Why is the conservative response to this any different than the liberal response to conservative protests?

If you are for rights and freedoms why Mike, why did you paint the Park 51 protestors, or Arizona Immigration supporters in such a negative light? Is that when you were bitten by the hyporcisy bug?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:13 PM

I never said it was different. In fact it's pretty much the same. I don't believe I painted them in a negative light. The Park 51 protesters were protesting a mosque being built at the site of the World Trade Center, when in fact it was not. That's not negative light that's fact.

I believed the Arizona law to be blatantly violating Americans rights. The original language in the law gave the police the right to ask for residency proof from anyone, based on how they looked, which was a clear violation of our rights (it's unlawful search and seizure).

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 5:26 PM

"Why should my view of you change, since you haven't changed your hypocritical, ideologue ways?"

SW, why should my view of you chance, since you still continue to frame other posters comments into something they have not said or post what you believe they believe or even think?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 5:29 PM

one yes or no question Michael: did you personally read the original Arizona law (that we are all speaking of) as it was presented?

-- Posted by doodle bug on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 5:56 PM

yes

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 6:07 PM

Here is an excellent analysis of the Wisconsin teacher contracts and why it should be important to everyone.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

The costs are huge, and the state's deficits are a direct result.

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 7:31 PM

It's funny, all I hear about is how teachers can retire at the age of 55 with plenty of money for the rest of their lives. Both my parents are in public education. My mother is in early education, while my father (as everyone knows) is a college professor for the public college in McCook. Both are now in their 60s and yet neither are near retiring. In fact my mother is not eligible for retirement for another two years.

Of course some of the same people making the claim that teachers can retire at 55 also make the claim that teachers get tons of vacations (summer, Christmas, and spring breaks), and actually work less than private workers. I don't have exact numbers but I know that most of the teachers I have had the honor of knowing and working alongside with never stop working. The are paid for work 40 hours a week. They aren't paid for the countless hours they do preparing for school outside of those hours. They are not paid for attending dances as chaperones, or going on trips with students. Most work through those supposed breaks that they have. All to ensure that students get the highest level and best education then can get.

I would love for a small business owner or private sector worker to spend one month as a teacher. Spend the month contstantly preparing for the next day, having to make split second decisions throughout the school day, going home and immediately preparing for the next day. Getting to a week long break, only to realize that they have the spend the majority of that break preparing for classes the next week. Maybe it would open their eyes before they criticize all teachers based on the poor actions of a few teachers. Maybe.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 7:03 AM

thanks for the reply Michael. I looked for the bill yesterday but was unable to find it in the brief time that I looked. Do you happen to have or know the AZ LB number?

-- Posted by doodle bug on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 8:53 AM

Mike,

"You points are very general"

Yes I apologize for that, but you only left me with a very vague and general question, if you would like more specifics I'll have to ask you to refine your questions. I don't expect you do because as I said you are too simple for subtle or detailed points, and only respong to coached "talking points".

"I'm not entirely sure what driving the posted speed through a school zone has to do with teaching"

You didn't specify that you wanted information only related to classroom behavior. See why you need to be specific. Would you prefer that teachers speed in school zones?

"simple (as you called me, boy I'm glad you don't name call or label as you have stated several times)"

I can't help if you don't like the term "simple" I find it an inoffensive term, simply meaning not complicated. You speak in generalities and don't respond to complex arguments, so I find you and your arguments simple. An inclined plane is among one of the most simple machines, yet without them people who use wheelchairs couldn't access homes and businesses. What's wrong with that?

"Of course some of the same people making the claim that teachers can retire at 55 also make the claim that teachers get tons of vacations (summer, Christmas, and spring breaks)"

Are these false claims?

"Actually SWNebr I misspoke, simple as that"

Another Mike classic. You "mispeak" but any conservative or person who disagrees with you as I do is "lying" as you blogged about before huh?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 9:01 AM

Mike:

"I don't believe I painted them in a negative light."

Here is why you are a hypocrite. I understand that your believe what you said here, unfortunately the facts don't back you up.

In your blog about the Park 51 protests, you referred to the people opposed to it as "fearmongers and liars" as least 5 times by my count. You later said they are "hatemongers" "full of hate" and called them religious bigots.

You're right Mike, those are all positive statements and a good way to have a disagreement.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 9:06 AM

Mike,

"I believe they are doing something right is because they are going in the right direction."

Why is ten years of stagnation "going in the right direction" are you a secret conservative? :)

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 9:21 AM

ocho,

I know but it is so fun to point it out, although it isn't much of a challenge as easy as he makes it. He is suspiciously silent whenever I point out his foolishness, and when he does respond he takes off on a tangent of what I said, never facing the hard truths.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 2:54 PM

Thought this was an interesting piece of how we all need to come together regardless of race, religion, denomination, or party affiliation.

Life is about all people doing good things for people and how good things happen in return and how God and these actions can fill the voids in our lives!

As an Ohio congressman, Tony Hall was encouraged to bring God into the workplace.

It was a notion he struggled with: How does a congressman do that without offending people or overstepping his bounds?

Then in 1984 he traveled to Ethiopia as a member of the United States' Hunger Committee to witness firsthand the famine devastating that country.

"I was not prepared for what I saw -- 7,000 people died each day," said Hall, a three-time Nobel Peace Prize nominee and executive director of the Alliance to End Hunger. He spoke Friday to Nebraska elected officials and community leaders at the 2011 Nebraska Leadership Prayer Breakfast.

Hall recalled how the lone doctor took him outside, where scores of people who had traveled hundreds of miles were seeking his help, and asked him to help pick out the children they would try to save.

"Women held up their children for me to take. All of them were dying. Some were dead. And we had to decide which to save," Hall said. "I saw 23 children die in two to three minutes."

Over the next three days, he witnessed countless more deaths.

"I had never seen anything like it before."

And then Hall remembered those words: Why don't you bring God into the workplace?

"God says a lot about the poor in the Bible. More than 2,500 verses deal with the poor," Hall said.

He points to two verses in the Book of Proverbs:

Be generous and share your food with the poor. You will be blessed for it. 22:9

He that hath mercy on the poor, lendeth to the Lord: and he will repay him. 19:17

"This is how I bring God into my workplace," he said.

Hall has dedicated much of his life to fighting hunger, working for peace and following God's principles. He served as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Agencies for Food and Agriculture. He is the co-author of "Changing the Face of Hunger: One Man's Story of How Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats, Republicans and the People of Faith are Joining Forces to Help the Hungry, the Poor and the Oppressed." And he has traveled the world -- notably to some of the poorest and devastated regions -- to find common ground, peace and promise.

These experiences are why he believes in the unifying power of prayer, regardless of individual beliefs.

For 58 years, U.S. presidents, congressmen, international leaders and locally elected leaders have gathered on a February morning to pray. The practice began in 1953 with President Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Every president since has carried on the tradition. The bipartisan and multidenominational event annually draws 2,000 to 3,000 people from all over the world. Nebraska's Leadership Prayer Breakfast is an extension of that national tradition, said Tom Osborne, athletic director at the University of Nebraska and master of ceremonies of Friday's event.

Thirty years ago, as an Ohio congressman, Hall attended his first National Prayer Breakfast. He recalled sitting among elected leaders and wondering: Is this it? There's got to be more in life than this.

He said he had a good life -- a happy family, a promising career, public respect.

"I felt hollow. ... I had this vague emptiness that I knew needed to be filled," he told Friday's audience.

"I had to go to the Congress of the United States to find God," he quipped. As funny as it may sound, it was through his work as an elected leader that his path took him to Jesus. Hall admits he became zealous in his new-found religion. Then his wife reminded him that the first lesson of faith is that "you can't force faith down other people's throats."

Rather, faith and following the principles of God's word offers a way to unify people in spirit and conviction -- convictions like eliminating hunger. Each day, it kills 25,000 people, Hall said.

"One billion people (in the world) are starving. In the United States 50 million people go to bed hungry two or three days a month," Hall said.

He calls hunger a silent tsunami.

"In Africa there is saying: When elephants fight, the grass dies," he said.

"When leaders fight, the people suffer. The greatest gift we can give somebody is a prayer. We need to pray for our leaders."

Prayer and God brings people together, Hall said, even people who are of opposite beliefs, convictions and principles.

"It's easy to talk to people that think like us," Hall said. "But we grow when we meet with those whose views are different from our own. We need to pray and work together.

"We need to be there for one another. Many times we fall short of these principles," Hall said. "But when we follow them, it is glorious."

-- Posted by CLUELESS SW NE on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 3:17 PM

Good post, Clueless

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 3:51 PM

So glad to see him go. Full of hate

-- Posted by president obama on Fri, Feb 25, 2011, at 6:01 PM

doodle bug, since the original bill has been changed I am not sure that it is available any longer online. I could be mistaken, though. I used to have it bookmarked but that link is now a broken link.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 5:03 PM

It's amazing, what I consider working every day and taking care of a severely injured family member some posters consider me running away from questions or being suspiciously silent.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 5:04 PM

maybe there is a link to the final bill as it was passed by the AZ legislature?

-- Posted by doodle bug on Sat, Feb 26, 2011, at 5:09 PM

Mike,

Again, I'm sorry if you have a family emergency and I hope it works out, but you have a long history of running away from questions so stop trying to be a victim please.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 7:19 AM

Who's trying to be a victim. It's just amusing that devoid of the facts of what's going on your first instinct is to attack. I don't answer your questions as fast as you want me to so you claim that I am running away from your question or suspiciously quiet. Stating facts about why I am not posting is not playing the victim. But you go right ahead and continuing not labeling or not name-calling. It's working quite well for you.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 11:21 AM

"Yet in Wisconsin, the governor puts a non-budget item (doing away with bargaining rights) into a budget proposal and then the party in control in the state tries to push the budget proposal through with no debate and no amendments allowed."

Duh, Michael, how do you accomplish debate and/or amendments when the other side has cut and run???

Kind of hard to offer an amendment from a Chicago Motel!!! Ya think?????

Flee-baggers want to debate, they gotta show up!

-- Posted by ochosinco on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 1:20 PM

I'm sorry I missed this the other day sinco. Naturally, you only give one side of the argument. Apparently you have forgotten that the only state in the union that only has one House is Nebraska. Wisconsin has two, House and Senate. The Senate Democrats left the state, the House Democrats didn't. In the House, the Republicans cut off debate and did a quick voice vote and didn't even allow 18 Democrats who were there to even vote. Is THAT your Democracy in action cinco? Or will you spin it to somehow blame the Democrats? Of course you will.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 11:26 AM

"It's amazing, what I consider working every day and taking care of a severely injured family member some posters consider me running away from questions or being suspiciously silent."

There you're trying to be a victim.

I've called you out of running away from questions before, I'm sure I will have to again. So when in THIS occasion you claim that my calling you out for it is because you have an excuse, it seems to me you are trying to be a victim.

What's amusing to me is that you have time to post your pity Mike posts and shift discussion away from your blatant hypocrisy which is what your blog was supposed to be against. But you don't have time to answer questions.

"It's working quite well for you."

I agree, you can't respond to any of my challenges and it shows you for who you are, it IS working well for me.

TTFN Mr. Pot.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 11:58 AM

Mike:

"I don't believe I painted them in a negative light."

Here is why you are a hypocrite. I understand that your believe what you said here, unfortunately the facts don't back you up.

In your blog about the Park 51 protests, you referred to the people opposed to it as "fearmongers and liars" as least 5 times by my count. You later said they are "hatemongers" "full of hate" and called them religious bigots.

You're right Mike, those are all positive statements and a good way to have a disagreement.

(I had to repost this in case you missed it like you did Ocho's comment earlier, you still think you weren't negative Mr. Pot?)

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 12:01 PM

So, sinco, when thousands of TEA Party members are bussed into towns (on tours none-the-less) across the nation it's a good thing, but when people are bussed in to support the unions, not only is it bad but they are union thugs? Interesting.

SW, still framing my comments and using them out of context I see. I never said I painted them in any positive light. In the case of Park 51 it was about religious intolerance and lying or at the very least ignorance. They were protesting an entire religion and claiming that a mosque was being built on Ground Zero which was completely false.

You want so hard for me to be playing the victim role that even when I explain what is going on that is causing my posts to be so spread out you go right to the labeling and calling of names which you claim you do not do.

The problem with you is I have answered your questions, you either don't accept them or just flat out ignore them. I've explained the 34%-30% comments several times yet you continue to ask about it.

I see you have reverted back to calling me Mr. Pot. Thank God you don't call people names.

I'm sure you will try to spin this entire post as me complaining or trying to play the victim card, etc, because, even though you constantly tell people that they don't "know" what you think; you have the uncanny ability of always "know"ing what everyone else thinks at all times.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 12:20 PM

please Michael. As I see it, one of the largest points of contention about your blogs is the fact that you APPEAR to paint every disagreement with you viewpoint as a LIE or an INSULT. I believe most folks are very weary of it. I believe you are just as responsible, and content with indulging in all the personal attacks. Please go ahead and castigate me for this point of view.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 1:04 PM

please Michael. As I see it, one of the largest points of contention about your blogs is the fact that you APPEAR to paint every disagreement with you viewpoint as a LIE or an INSULT. I believe most folks are very weary of it. I believe you are just as responsible, and content with indulging in all the personal attacks. Please go ahead and castigate me for this point of view.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 1:04 PM

No castigating I just disagree with your "fact" statement. If it appears that I am doing something it cannot be a fact but an opinion. I don't paint every disagreement with my viewpoint as a lie or an insult. I call the lies and the insults as such. If a person is claiming something they know not to be true then it is a lie. If a person is calling another person names for the sole purpose of calling them a name it is an insult, such as calling them simple because the person believes that the person is not all that intelligent. It's an insult and it is meant to insult the person.

I try to stay away from insults as much as possible, sometimes I fail. I don't post statements I know to be false and claim them to be fact. From time to time I will post information I believe to be true only to have that information turn out not to be true. I then apologize and recant what I have said. If a person wants to call me a hypocrite because of this (or call me names) then they will.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 4:41 PM

I read that the union was willing to make wage and benifit concession's that Walker was asking for. If that is the case why go after collective barganing? The union and the state government neogiate wage and benifits, if the state cant afford to pay then why would they agree to the contract? How much sense does that make?

-- Posted by bigdawg on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 5:35 PM

I don't know if you have noticed bigdawg but no one has answered your question. Talk about "running away from simple questions". They don't want to admit that the unions have, in fact, met Walker's requests. I believe the answer for why the don't answer is because they don't want this protest to be about rights. They want it to be about union thugs demanding more money from the people. The fact that this isn't going on, the fact that this is about rights and not money is an inconvenient one so they ignore it and continue to push the union thug myth.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 4:49 PM

I have been questioning the 34 vs 30 debate for awhile, so I did my own research on the matter.

In the 1997-98 school year for Wisconsin schools for 10th graders 61% of Wisconsin students rated at proficient or above with the breakdown being 38% Proficient, 25% Advanced.

In the 2009-2010 school year 76% of students were rated proficient or higher with 29% Proficient, 47% Advanced.

For the record that is a 15% increase in an 11 year period.

For those same periods 29% were rated basic or below with 20% Basic, 9% Minimal Performance in the 1997-1998 school year.

In the 2009-2010 school year it was 22% with 13% Basic, 9% Minimal Performance.

I wouldn't really call that stagnation and I would still say that Wisconsin teachers are doing something right and it is indeed going in the right direction.

I never looked at the original link (it is gone now that obvious is gone) but I have to question where the numbers came from in the first place.

http://www2.dpi.state.wi.us/wsas/statewk...

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 5:05 PM

I would respond to the SEIU question cinco with the response that the lyrics either need to be changed or the song dropped. I don't agree with the lyrics and the song should have never been released.

How do you respond with someone asking an acting Congressman who is going to shoot Obama?

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_r...

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 5:09 PM

hi stinko

-- Posted by president obama on Sun, Feb 27, 2011, at 5:42 PM

"I never said I painted them in any positive light."

Hmmmm interesting. Because I was calling you out on your statement that you didn't paint them in a negative light. Let me refresh your memory.

"I never said it was different. In fact it's pretty much the same. I don't believe I painted them in a negative light." -- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Feb 24, 2011, at 5:26 PM

So is your response an attempt to run away from the real question by applying "Mike spin" or just your intelligence showing again? Factually you are correct, you never said you painted them in a positive light. Problem with your argument is, that isn't why you are a hypocrite. However, you DID say you never painted them negatively. If I call you a "fearmonger", "hatemonger", bigot, or "liar" am I painting you in a negative light?

I don't know but your continued evasion makes me think a better name for you would be Mr. Lessthantruthful, but I still prefer Mr. Pot, it works on more than one level :)

The article that was posted earlier was from cbsnews. I tried to find it again but only found where it was cited on Huffington Post, and lost it's trail. But you're probably right, their numbers could be wrong.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 8:33 AM

I've experienced some confusion on this thread and I've finally nailed some of it down...

1. Some of the responses were deleted, I thought maybe I'd been reading somewhere else.

2. One of the main arguments was "hypocrisy" concerning disappearing rights and freedoms being stolen from one group; while not being defensed by another; as has been the case in reverse.

Addressing point number 2 - I think there may be too fine a line separating "privileges" from "freedoms" and "rights".

In the Bill of Rights - Human beings are recognized as being granted by their Creator certain inalienable rights; and that among these are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I used to 100% believe that rights are things that cannot be taken away from you. Alas, I was wrong. Government may certainly take away all three of these inalienable rights as specified by law in response to breaking certain laws. For example, if I commited murder, I would most likely surrender my liberty; and in an extreme case could expect to surrender my life.

Freedoms are guaranteed in the Constitution i.e. freedom of speech, freedom of worship, protection against unreasonable search and seizure, voting, etc. These freedoms are guaranteed to each and every citizen of the United States and are sworn to be upheld by every elected official in the land.

Privileges are basically niceties extended by society or collective or independant groups within that society. Driving is a privilege that is extended to me through the State of Nebraska. It may be revoked if I abuse the privilege. Fishing and hunting are privileges, again conditional upon how I use them. I would venture that collective bargaining agreements would fall into this category. A collective bargaining agreement is an instrument used in certain areas of the workforce (and other places, perhaps?) to assist in the betterment of wages, benefits, conditions, etc of the workers represented by the contract. That being said, wouldn't the contract as an instrument necessitate negotiability? Aren't contracts performance based?

Wouldn't true hypocrisy be the teachers standing up for the TEA party and the TEA party deciding not to reciprocate?

Otherwise maybe this is a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander?

-- Posted by Mickel on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 12:51 PM

What is your fascination with running SW? While we are at what is your fascination with framing comments out of context or giving them completely different meaning than originally intended?

How come, for that matter, despite your claims that you don't label people or call them names you continually label people or call them names? How come, when you don't get the answer YOU want your first inclination is to question their intelligence? Just because someone does not tow your line of thinking and actually thinks for themselves and disagrees with you doesn't make them stupid or dumb.

I never painted them in a positive or negative light. I saw a situation where a group of people were angrily protesting something that was not even happening. When they were told that a mosque was not, in fact, being built or even planned on Ground Zero they continued to insist that there was. They were also protesting against an entire religion and attempting to strike fear into people about what Islam is about, with little to no facts to back them up. That is what I was, in essence, protesting against on my little blog.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 1:37 PM

SW, I would like to know what you think of the new, and apparently factual, numbers of proficiency in the state of Wisconsin. Are the teachers and the state education of Wisconsin doing something right? Are they going in the right direction? Or have they accomplished nothing?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 1:42 PM

So, then, Mickel, what is your response to Governor Walker attempting to clear the capital of protesters?

If you truly believe what you say about freedoms, rights, and priveleges then wouldn't the protests of the TEA Parties of the last two years have been wasted? Paying or not paying taxes is not a freedom or a right. If anything it fits more into the Declaration than the Constitution, using your understanding and reading of our Founding documents.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 1:45 PM

o.k. Michael, I bow to your superior intellect. And I understand that, this being your blog, you get to be the arbiter of what is a deliberate lie, or misstatement. Instead of "FACT", how about - You give the appearance of being unable to tolerate much disagreement with your viewpoint (again - to emphasize - I understand that this is your blog).

-- Posted by doodle bug on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 1:46 PM

There you go again. I never said that I had superior intellect than anyone else. I can tolerate disagreements with my viewpoints just fine, as long as they are based in actual fact.

If someone challenges the way that I think based on their preconceived notions of what I am supposed to believe I will call them on that.

I am also not an arbiter of anything. If someone pushes something that has already been discredited I will call them on it.

It was a good attempt at framing what I do, but again it's nothing more than a dig, an attempt to get under my skin. Good try though.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 2:08 PM

Mr. Pot,

You asked a bunch of questions, I'll try to answer them all, if I miss any please let me know.

1. Running is healthy, although I'm more into bicycling. Why you refuse to answer questions is what I was referring to in these posts.

2. I didn't mean to take quotes out of context I just didn't want to fill up the board with repeats, I figure you know what I'm talking about when I only copy part of the quote. If you tell me specifically what I took out of context, I'll try to fill in my perception of the context further.

3. I only call you names because it's fun and it sets you off. If you recall, it took several months before I decided on a more appropriate title. Therefore I am calling a person names, not people. What I have complained of in the past and what I seek to avoid is generalizational labelling that is negative. I don't think calling you Mr. Pot is general, I find it quite specific.

4. See above, I only question your intelligence because in several months of discussion and reading your posts, I find it lacking. Please point out any other person I have "called names" or "questioned their intelligence" and I'll apologize.

5. I'm not intimately familiar with the habits and skills of every teacher in Wisconsin, but I'm willing to give the majority the benefit of the doubt that they often do things right. Again I don't know why you keep beating this horse, I never said the teachers where solely to blame. Do you think teachers ever do anything wrong?

6. I don't have hours or inclination to research the Wisconsin teachers reports, I'm happy if they are doing well. I was only referring to the article that everyone else was citing, for your information it was only reading scores, not education across the board. I also have no reason to doubt those numbers.

7. Again I'm sure some teachers have accomplished great things, but unlike you, I believe some teachers don't accomplish great things.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 2:41 PM

Mr. Pot,

"I never painted them in a positive or negative light"

Please explain how calling people "fearmongers and liars", "hatemongers", and religious bigots based solely on your opinions is NOT painting someone in a negative light?

I'm sure that in your opinion you are justified in this name calling and you have repeated more recently your opinions, but please, again, explain how this is not negative.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 2:44 PM

doodle bug,

One of the greatest problems with Mr. Pot's posts is that he considers his opinions to be "fact" which is why he goes off about it so often. Therefore, he interprets people challenging his opinions and challenging "facts" that is why he calls people liars. I honestly don't think he understands hypocrisy for all he rails against it.

He explains it quite well here: "I can tolerate disagreements with my viewpoints just fine, as long as they are based in actual fact."

Because he views his opinions are the "fact" he confuses other's opinions as statements of inaccurate "facts"

However, this is just all my speculation based on years of observation I'm not trying to claim his flawed intellect is "fact"

I also think he considers himself some great "victim" and tries to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example see how he responds to your questioning his opinion/fact: "It was a good attempt at framing what I do, but again it's nothing more than a dig, an attempt to get under my skin. Good try though."

Any disagreement is either a lie, or an insult designed to "hurt" him, I'm no psychologist but looks like a victim stance to me.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 2:52 PM

sw, you are quite correct of course.

Michael, thanks for illuminating my contentions. You APPEAR to be very adept at ascribing thoughts and emotions to others' posts, i.e. "trying to get under my skin". Once again, this is YOUR blog and the truth/fact is what YOU say it is. Please continue whining about hypocrisy because I believe you to be the resident expert.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 3:32 PM

Michael - actually, I would classify taxation as an obligation. It is not a right, a freedom or a privilege; in my opinion.

According to article 16 of the constitution; income tax was only to be levied during a time of war. It was after WWII that congress determined to make the income tax a "voluntary" system instead of repealing the tax. The catch is: once you are a volunteer of the system, you are forever a volunteer of the system. Let's not get started on the Consitutionality of the Social Security system...that is a huge topic for another thread.

That being said, I feel no obligation to address the Gov. of Wisconsin; I've been out of the news loop for the last 3 to 4 days and am unaware of new developments. Perhaps a summary? Or, better yet; maybe you could explain what you feel your response would be and why?

To the last part of my previous post. I don't recall the left running to the defense of the TEA party in any way. In fact I'm sure I remember a plethora of vitriol stemming from the MSM and blog media railing against Americans exercising their rights. I'm wondering why, now; the left wants support for union members from people right of center?

-- Posted by Mickel on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 5:32 PM

Its not the left protesting in the state capitol it is union teachers. Many of them republicans.

-- Posted by president obama on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 6:01 PM

bigdawg,

Wow I didn't know there were that many teachers in Wisonsin. Here I thought when I saw SEIU and Firefighter's unions, AFL-CIO, etc. signs that meant those people were there supporting the protest, thanks to your wisdom I now know that it is JUST union teachers, many of whom are Republican.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 7:37 PM

So, bigdawg What exactly do those folks protesting in Wisconsin teach the unions? Do they teach them how to organize or what? Were you taught by a union teacher?

-- Posted by Sir Didymus on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 10:04 PM

Actually Mickel I made that very point in my blog. The very people that were demanding respect for there protests then are now are now doing their best to slime protesters now. It wasn't right when it was done then it's not right now.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 10:08 PM

SW,

3. No actually it doesn't set me off, but it's funny that you think it does. You are a hypocrite. You said you don't call names or label and yet you obviously get a kick out of doing exactly that which you have said you don't do and have publicly called people out for doing the same.

4. No apologies to me but anyone else apologies galore? How shameful of you. You don't seem to want to raise above the mud-slinging you seem to despise.

5. Yes and I have publicly stated those in the past. You, though, have only once mentioned anything positive teachers have ever done and it was it was, in my opinion, a mocking post.

6. So, I give you the evidence that things are improving in Wisconsin and your answer is IF they are then that's good. Doesn't sound like you are too convinced by the numbers.

7. There you go again stating what you know I believe. I believe it was you a few months ago that went on a rant how no poster can know what other posters are thinking or even know, yet you have no problem assigning my beliefs for me. I guess in the future I should ask you what I'm thinking before I post what I'm thinking.

I don't consider my opinions facts, I consider them opinions. I consider my facts that I have researched to be facts. If evidence comes out that I am wrong I correct myself.

If you want to talk about beating horses you should look at your own image in the mirror. All you can ever talk about is, well, me. You have an infatuation with me. You are constantly trying to prove that I am trying to play the victim, how I am always right and everyone else is wrong, how you "know" everything you say gets under my skin. Your posts are almost always about me. Well, thanks, it's great to be admired by the likes of you(and before you go off on any rants about how I am glorifying myself, that last part is what some like to call sarcasm).

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Feb 28, 2011, at 10:58 PM

Mr. Pot,

"You have an infatuation with me"

You've caught me truly, since the government will no longer defend some of its laws, will you marry me?

"You are constantly trying to prove that I am trying to play the victim, how I am always right and everyone else is wrong"

I'm pretty sure I don't try to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong.

3. Yep I'm a hypocrite, I've mentioned that several times, what is so hypocritical about you is that you think you aren't a hypocrite and don't have a good grasp on reality, imo.

4. I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that I call "people" names, I call you names yes, but are you plural?

7. Sorry I misspoke, that is of course only my interpretation of your thought process, limited as it is.

"No actually it doesn't set me off, but it's funny that you think it does. "

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 10:00 AM

Mr. Pot,

Can you please, please, please explain how calling people "hatemongers and liars" is not portraying them in a negative light?

I know you think they are but your defense of this is in danger of straying past hypocrisy and into "outright lying"

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 10:01 AM

Still beating the horse that you believe you get under my skin I see.

No I won't marry you I'm happily married.

I've already explained whys don't consider it to be as you say it is, I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you.

I notice that since I called you out on your hypocritical stance on knowing you are still professing to know how I think with the caveat of it being your opinion. I wonder will that last as long as your several solo boycotts of me have?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 2:29 PM

Mr. Pot,

Well if she ever kicks you out you'll know where to turn. xoxo

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 3:46 PM

Mr. Pot,

This is quite a change of subject, but something I'm curious about...what are you going to graduate school for?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 3:50 PM

Masters in History

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 4:55 PM

Michael - interestingly enough, the obverse is also true.

The people who slimed protestors back then are demanding respect right now.

Funny how I didn't hear your championing of the TEA Party in 2010. Seems I remember, well; you 'sliming' them.

-- Posted by Mickel on Tue, Mar 1, 2011, at 7:23 PM

Nice mixed metaphor mike. If it weren't for Geezer I would think that all liberals (or at least the ones around these parts) have to mangle the english language. Or were you implying that SW is some sort of animal abusing Hannible Lector? Because that smacks of SLANDER, I say!

-- Posted by Sir Didymus on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 12:56 AM

Mike - I am going to continue this theme that began in September. You paid NO attention. I am disappointed how you missed all of this Middle East stuff..............

As I stated in August when oil was $75 I received two must buy signals in my two models. One measures price and the other measures time. This has only happened twice in the last 20 years. My oil targets at that time were $94 and $105. I am now revising my targets. I am now getting objectives of $112, $124 and $136.

I also recommended a stock which at the time was $4.75. It is now $10.60. The latest upgrades for the stock is $20. This stock is the largest independent pure oil company in Oklahoma.

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 5:21 AM

What exactly are you saying that I missed Wallis?

I'm not a big believer in strife in the Middle East causing our oil prices to soar when our two largest importers are from North America. Of course that's just my opinion.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 6:59 AM

First Walker proposes to end their bargaining rights, then he orders them locked out of the capital now he is proposing to slash their budget and fire 12,000. It makes one wonder, what does he have against teachers?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 11:03 AM

"I'm not a big believer in strife in the Middle East causing our oil prices to soar when our two largest importers are from North America. Of course that's just my opinion."

Oil is a global market. This is the thinking of an ignorant person.

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 6:08 PM

I keep forgetting that you view anyone not like you as completely stupid and unworthy of your respect.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Mar 2, 2011, at 6:36 PM

Mike - I think that in a world where the United States imports 13.8 Million bbls of oil a day you cannot only consider Mexico and Canada as significant. That was what you said. We consume 19.6 Million bbls a day and produce 5.8 million. If the world loses supply it will hurt us.

Which is evident by the fact that oil is over $104. I stated on your blog in September that my two models both gave me buy signals the same day. That had only happened twice before in 21 years. Interesting that I got long prior to the Middle East blowing up. Maybe, the oil price was sending a signal. I also recommended buying SD at less than $5 on that same day (which I did). It closed at $11.11 this afternoon.

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Fri, Mar 4, 2011, at 5:42 PM

Actually what it sound like to me is the price of oil was going to be artificially risen in the first place. It is impossible in September to know that there is going to be strife in Middle East at this time.

Though I still question it considering the strife is in Africa not the Middle East. It still does not explain why, in the 2000s when the price of oil dropped back to pre-$2 gas prices, the price of gas in the United States remained above those levels for quite a while.

I understand, though you clearly see me as an idiot and ignorant (sorry I didn't get the same degree you got), that as oil prices rise gas prices rise. It's all a part of supply and demand. If it truly were a part of supply and demand then as oil prices shrank, gas prices would also drop. That largely though has not been the case. Gas prices rise at the same level as oil prices rise. Gas prices, don't however, drop at the same level as oil prices drop.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 1:02 PM

huh????

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Sun, Mar 6, 2011, at 8:13 PM

Eqypt and Israel are neighbors. Remember Moses walking from Eqypt to the Arabian Pennisula?

But you are correct. Africa and the Middle East are not the same.

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 8:36 AM

I never said they weren't the same Wallis. That is your interpretation of what I said. Greece and Turkey are neighbors as are Egypt and Israel. Do we consider Greece to be Middle Eastern or Turkey to be European?

It really is a nice trick though, harping on what you believe I said instead of what I actually said.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Mar 8, 2011, at 1:39 PM

??????

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 6:33 AM

It's a pretty simple statement wallis, why so confused that you had to issue a post with six question marks and nothing else?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 8:40 AM

It's funny, it has been mentioned several times on the thread of this blog that this whole fight in Wisconsin was solely about money and fixing the budget. Even Scott Walker and his fellow Republicans claimed that all of it was about fixing the budget of Wisconsin. Yet, they just passed the infringement on the Wisconsin people as a NON budgetary bill. Could it be that they were lying the entire time? Seriously, if it was so important to fixing the budget, why pass it as a non budgetary bill just to pass it?

The fight in Wisconsin is not over and I feel that the new "law" they just passed without a quorum will be struck down in the near future.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM

Mike - Just hop into Wisconsin and forget the Middle East.

There are threats to kill people. You can really get off on that.

Wallis

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Thu, Mar 10, 2011, at 4:29 PM


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