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Not a Sound

Posted Tuesday, August 31, 2010, at 10:27 AM

While the idea behind this blog is not mine (I will give full credit to Salon writer Justin Elliot) I will expand on the idea.

A very controversial religious figure plans to build a cultural center within two blocks of Ground Zero. It will carry this persons personal religion as it's forename but will be open to those of all faiths. Unlike Park51 this particular center is not being protested. Barely a word is being spoken about it.

If, as some of those that protest Park51, are truly protesting the building for the reasons they claim should they not be speaking loud and clear on this one?

If those protesting Park51 are protesting because they believe that it is being built on hallowed ground, should they also not be protesting this site as well since it is within the same distance as Park51?

In my opinion, the very fact that the people that are protesting Park51 are also not protesting this site (and more than likely will not) speaks louder than any word they can ever mutter.

What it shows is that this protest is not about Ground Zero, or about hallowed ground (they would have been protesting the places of ill refute for years and asking that they move). It is about religious intolerance, not to mention religious ignorance. What it shows it that a large number of the Park51 protesters not only believe that we are at war with the entire Islamic religion but they have fallen for the idea that on 9/11 those that attacked us represented the entire religion. They have fallen into the ignorance of the argument that all Muslims were in support of 9/11.

A little background of the new center that is being built. It's current planned name is the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero". Let us forget for a minute the idea that the name itself is perverting the site of the worst attack on American soil for personal gain. It's founder claims that it will be open for all faiths, but from his words in the past that is hard to believe (notice that is the same argument some protesters have used against Park51).

Pastor Bill Keller is not a nice man and he does not represent the ideals of Christianity that I grew up with. He calls one religion (and for obvious reasons I do not need to put what religion he is referring to) a great religion for pedophiles. Not surprisingly he is a big believer in the birther conspiracy theory. The big thing for me is that he willingly takes peoples money in the name of God for his own personal gain.

I am in agreement with Salon writer Justin Elliot. If Bill Keller wants to build this site I have no objection to it. Do I like the idea based on the person that Keller is? Absolutely not, but if the proposed center is going to be open to all faiths as Keller promises I have no issues with (yes I am using an argument used several times on this blog to justify protesting the idea of Park51). Honestly the only ground I consider actually hallowed in that area is in the footprints of Ground Zero. We, ourselves, have already taken the hallowed part out by building a skyscraper on it, but that is another blog entirely. Anything blocks away from Ground Zero is not hallowed ground, simply put.

Here is my challenge, if you oppose the building of Park51 do you also oppose the building of this Christian Center? Please elaborate whether you do or do not.

Same thing with those that support the building of Park51, do you support the building of the Christian Center? Why or why not?

It is actually a really good study into the reasons why people support one thing but not another.

The backgrounds of the site and the Bill Keller came from an article that Justin Elliot wrote on Salon.


Comments
Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

I unfortunately but completely agree GI. I will also go out on a limb and predict that they will say that their actions (or in this cases silence) is not hypocritical.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 10:46 AM

Could this be why?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/w...

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 6:20 PM

Oh yeas I forget CPB you never forgive anyone for their past discrepancies ... unless they happen to have an ideology identical to yours.

Personally I don't see what any past run-ins with the law have anything to do with what he is trying to do now. I have always found it a little funny and highly suspicious that as much as you hate the taxes we have to pay anytime someone you disagree with has a past of not paying taxes you go out of your way to slam them for that.

I could delve into the past of Keller's statements and actions but it doesn't really play a role in where they choose to spend their money and what they plan to build with that money.

Being divisive for the sake of divisiveness doesn't solve anything.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 9:40 PM

"Oh yeas I forget CPB you never forgive anyone for their past discrepancies ... unless they happen to have an ideology identical to yours."

You know full well your statement is a lie. Think back to you "confessions", how could you possibly come up with that statement and have the gall to tie ideology to it. I must say, at this point, you have disappointed me.

As far as his past, he hasn't changed. He has not acknowleged any of his criminal activities, nor has he really made any attempt to stop. I have forgiven him, but many, including those of your ideology have not, and oppose the "community center" being built on the WTC site.

"I have always found it a little funny and highly suspicious that as much as you hate the taxes we have to pay anytime someone you disagree with has a past of not paying taxes you go out of your way to slam them for that." (?)

Where in the world have you ever gotten the idea I hate taxes? If someone is not paying their taxes, shouldn't they be slammed? What kind of world do you live in?

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 10:41 PM

I got the idea directly from you CPB. There have several instances in the past where you felt that a nominee of Obama's was not qualified simply because of this tax records from the past or his inability to pay taxes. You call me a liar if you want that's fine.

I keep trying to live in your world CPB but you change the rules (mostly in your favor) constantly so that you don't have to defend what you have said in the past. I tied ideology to it because it seemed like you were protesting the site based on his past record and tax history which you have done in the past with Obama's nominees. There was no gall there. Sorry for disappointing you but I am fairly sure I really haven't disappointed you but you are trying to save face, so I am sorry for disappointing you I will try to do better.

I just want to try to get this straight though because it really is quite the phenomenon. At the start of the protest over Park51 it was that the site was being built on hallowed ground. When that didn't work because 1)it was not being built at Ground Zero and 2) where it is actually located there are places of ill refute that no one really seemed to care about the protest moved onto...

It was rubbing it in the faces of the the families of 9/11 and that it was being intolerant. That fell apart when it was revealed that only two block further up the street there was already a Mosque and several groups of 9/11 families came out in support. Then the protest moved onto ...

One of the financiers behind the site being a pro-terrorist sympathizer. But that fell apart when it was revealed just how close a relationship he had with George W. Bush and that he was a minority owner of Fox News ...

So now we are moving to one of the developers because he has a past criminal record and was late on his taxes.

I still haven't heard from you CPB whether you support the Christian Center being built and why or why not.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Aug 31, 2010, at 11:11 PM

Yes, I criticized President Obama's cabinet secretaries for their willing failure to pay taxes. You would think that the person appointed to head the Treasury would have all his taxes in order, not because of an appearance of impropriety, but because that person must have absolute moral authority over all national economic decisions. A tax cheat cannot do this. As with all President Obama's tax cheating appointees. So yes, I would say I have been very consistent here.

"I tied ideology to it because it seemed like you were protesting the site based on his past record and tax history which you have done in the past with Obama's nominees. There was no gall there. Sorry for disappointing you but I am fairly sure I really haven't disappointed you but you are trying to save face, so I am sorry for disappointing you I will try to do better." (?)

I did not know I was ever asked to respond to a Christian Center, so I will. I will oppose it as well. It was not America's religious beliefs that was attacked on that day. It was America's freedom that was. Just as you have your freedom to stay small and self-centered, there are those who strive for greatness, not only for themselves, but for all.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 3:14 PM

Just can't keep away from the personal attacks can you CPB? You didn't answer why you oppose the Christian Center. What do you think our religious beliefs fall under CPB? They fall under freedom. When our freedom (as you put it) was attacked on 9/11 all of them were, this includes our freedom of religion. They are one in the same. I'm not really sure why you are trying to separate them.

"I did not know I was ever asked to respond to a Christian Center"

Further proof you only read what you choose to read and leave the rest for the abyss.

From my original blog. It's right above if you don't believe me:

"Here is my challenge, if you oppose the building of Park51 do you also oppose the building of this Christian Center? Please elaborate whether you do or do not.

Same thing with those that support the building of Park51, do you support the building of the Christian Center? Why or why not?"

No, CPB, you have been anything but consistent. I noted that you can't let what's done in the past whether it's run ins with the law or failure to pay taxes. You called me a liar. When I pointed it again, you admitted as much but then credited yourself with being consistent, which you are not even in the same stratosphere of.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 3:25 PM

Chunky,

I'm sorry but I confuse easily, what does the article you linked have to do with anything?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 6:53 PM

SWNebr Transplant,

Everyone is making a big deal out of the "mosque", so I made it bigger.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 8:38 PM

"Oh yeas I forget CPB you never forgive anyone for their past discrepancies ... unless they happen to have an ideology identical to yours."

It is THIS I called you a liar on. NOT about past tax delinquencies! At least try to comprehend what you read.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 8:49 PM

It is you CPB that is having issues with the comprehension. Everything that I have said about your past posts and actions on this blog have been truthful. You don't forgive past discrepancies ... unless they believe what you believe.

You keep changing the line of the argument but in the end you called me a liar and I proved that I was being truthful in what I was saying.

I can't wait for your next post where you will once again claim that I am confused or unable to comprehend. You have already admitted that you were wrong in calling me a liar on you not excusing discrepancies in the past (someone not paying their taxes in the 70s but paying them not do fall in that category), but as is typical for you, you credited yourself with the fix.

You have gotten so predictable as of late CPB. Why don't you head back over to Sam's blog and have some more arguments about giraffes.

"Everyone is making a big deal out of the 'mosque', so I made it bigger."

That statement was about as clear as a cinder block.

You still haven't clarified why you are against the Christian Center as well. Actually you haven't really clarified why you are against the Muslim Center either. So, clarify ole peanutbuttery one.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 9:58 PM

"It is you CPB that is having issues with the comprehension. Everything that I have said about your past posts and actions on this blog have been truthful. You don't forgive past discrepancies ... unless they believe what you believe."

Example please.

I am not in favor of a Christian Center being built there because that is not what Christianity stands for. I do not recall any where in the Holy Bible where Jesus called for a church or center of some kind being built in His honor. He preached for action, to get off of your fat lazy butts, and to stop worshiping the things (like posting on these stupid blogs) that take away from the purpose in life the He was teaching, helping the poor, the sick, and everyone else who needed help. So I really don't think Jesus would care one bit if an otherwise useless building was built that didn't follow His teachings.

I don't know if Islam teaches the same things, it should. If it doesn't, then it shouldn't be built either.

So I say, make a park there. With a play ground, an amphitheater, disk golf, skate board ramps and course, skating rink, a hedge maze, chess and checker boards of marble, nature trails, and rest rooms with changing tables. Just no wi-fi or golf.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Sep 1, 2010, at 10:14 PM

Not that I disagree with you on the needs of parks, but by your definition Christians have been screwing up for close to 2000 years with the building of all their churches.

I also don't recall Jesus ever telling anyone to get off their fat lazy butts. Can you please give me the passage in the Bible where He did? Is it a new translation that has just recently come out?

Who on here is worshiping these blogs? What are you talking about CPB? I agree with Molly though you are condemning the rest of us for the exact same thing you are doing. If you are so righteous and believe that the blogs take away from Jesus' teachings then why are you on here?

As far as the example, I gave it to you CPB. You truly are having comprehension issues. In the post that you quoted me from I gave you an example.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 9:33 PM

I just realized I screwed up the first paragraph of my post and that it will more than likely lead to confusion if not fixed.

What I meant to say was:

I don't disagree with you on the need for parks CPB, but using your definition of what Jesus wanted Christians have been screwing up for close to 2000 years with all the churches they have built.

Again I apologize for any confusion from the original post.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Fri, Sep 3, 2010, at 4:40 PM


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