Shameful Democrats

Mike, Merry Christmas. Based upon the generics of your offering, above, we seem to have a problem with simple mathematics. You say that those of Conservative mindset (hint of criminal) have lied, and pressured the 'good' guy Liberals into falling into line with the 'nasty' Conservatives. Hmmm.

This is where the problem is. If I hear you right, Liberal thinking is 100% right, and Conservative thinking is, therefore, 100% wrong, through the process of simple ratios of 1 to 1.

My mind now says that we (you and I) are working with 199% of 100%, which is a mathematical impossibility, if I learned properly. I know that I am 99% right, leaving you with your realistic 1% (lucky) correctness. One of us is in error; or both in error?

Canada, England, France, Spain, Italy, anon as the list goes, and grows, have Socialized Medical care for their people, and are all (not one out of step) loosing the battle of finding sufficient funds to maintain a good standard of medical care for their people.

So, let us presume, numbers aside, the U.S. has proven to have the mental prowess to be more successful (or perhaps less a failure). But we do not have the proof of successful management skills.

That leaves us back to square one, on very very thin ice, because our other non-success' have eroded the fiscal ice support down to paper thin, above a chasm of debt. And yet the Liberal mindset desires to jump up and down, to prove to the world, and our own citizens, that it is perfectly safe to 'Global Warm' the remaining ice out from under our feet, because, by the time the ice finishes melting, everyone will be indoctrinated into thinking we can walk on water, and not drown.

Back to what is left of square one. Oh, I know, Pass a bunch more laws that gives away our sovereignty, and remaining few bucks, and we all can go to the reservation and pray there are some Indians, who still remember enough about their heritage to teach us how to survive through Hunting/Gathering.

I must quit, I am becoming truly as facetious as you, and that makes me have a bad taste in my mouth.

Merry Christmas, any way. May we survive until 2012, so we can see how the 'End of the World' goes, over a beer, if beer still exists.

Ho, Ho, Ho. In Jesus. Arley

Well Navy thanks for putting words into my mouth and ideas in my head. I not once said that I was 100%, or any number in the vicinity, right. These are my opinions. I don't operate on the idea that I am 100% right and someone else is 100% wrong. That's just wasting time.

Some Conservatives have lied, absolutely about what is in and what isn't it the health care reform. There were no death squads but that did not stop Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Minority Leader Boehner, etc, etc. from saying that there were.

But it doesn't surprise me. I rake Democrats over the coals which everyone has been wanting me to do and I still get criticized. I guess I didn't rake them over the right coals.

All you have to do is look at the data to see that we rank 17th in the world for health care. 17th is not a good ranking by anyone's books.

But Mike, Oral Roberts, by your definitions, preached hate.

Unlike certain people that hold onto events in a person's life to trash them after they die and make a judgment as to where their soul is headed (Ted Kennedy and Michael Jackson are two specific examples from this site) I choose to honor those that have passed on. Whatever they did in life and whether it's sinful or not is not for me to judge. That is now between Oral Roberts and God.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1939896,00.html

Sure sounds like a government sponsored death squad to me.

only you would link that to government sponsored death squads. wow, what a leap

A recomendation by whom?

Read the whole article Iggy, in particular towards the end. You grow up.

A US government group of doctors recommend women delay mammogram screenings. Women will be older and weaker, and tumors will be larger and more widespread. Morality will go up, cost of treatment goes up. Death squad.

I will ask you guys to be respectful to Oral Roberts. You expected the same of Ted Kennedy as I did. Oral Roberts had his faults but now that he is dead there is no point in rehashing them.

So Chunky I bring up the lies from months ago about death panels that was actually in the health care reform (by the way the measure was talking about end of life consultations) you link to a recommendation by a group that wasn't followed. Help me here I don't see your logic?

Drop the Hitler comparisons. Hitler eradicated millions of people and took over most of Europe. Even putting Oral Roberts in the same discussion as Hitler shames the memories that died at the hand of Hitler.

I personally did not like Oral Roberts but I'm also not going to jump all over him at his death like the buzzards did when Ted Kennedy and Michael Jackson died.

Drop the Hitler comparisons. Hitler eradicated millions of people and took over most of Europe. Even putting Oral Roberts in the same discussion as Hitler shames the memories that died at the hand of Hitler.

I personally did not like Oral Roberts but I'm also not going to jump all over him at his death like the buzzards did when Ted Kennedy and Michael Jackson died.

Government independent panel = group think = consensus = non scientific. Kind of like global warming.

Christians are NOT perfect, they are forgiven. I am a Christian and I certianly am not perfect nor will I ever be. All I can hope for is that I try my best to do what is expected of me. I don't hate anyone, I am suspicious of some groups.

It's sad to hear you people bash Christians so much. I don't know if you've noticed, but Christians get bash a whole hell of a lot in this country that was founded on Christian values.

I know there are a lot of people out there that give Christians a bad name, much like the Pharisees at the time of Jesus. they weren't cutting the mustard for God. They'll get there's some day if they're not repentant.

I think it's funny in a way, you guys that bash Christians all the time, I never hear you say much about Islam, the most murderous religion in the history of the world. I guess it's easier to hate Christians and constantly make fun of them, they aren't going to bomb you for it like a Shia Muslim would for your blasphemy.

You people are disgusting.

Thanks for trying to keep it respectable Mike.

Merry Christmas everyone, I sure hope I spelled everything perfectly for you Guillermo.

Okay guys we've lost focus. This is not a blog on religion. I only mentioned Oral Roberts because the news came across as I was typing this blog. Keep it focused on the health care debate.

If you truly want to do a religious blog start a blog, the publishers of this website are always looking for new bloggers.

But please keep it on the topic of health care.

GI, Christians most certainly do NOT have as much blood on their hands as any other group. That was a flat-out lie.

Modern Christians, most specifically, have FAR less blood on their hands than followers of Islam...and than those that support the slaughter of millions of babies every year.

Christians are the ones that support shelters, food pantries, crisis pregnancy centers, missions to repair homes on reservations and in foreign countries, missions to provide food and water, missions to provide care for the sick and orphaned.

>>>It is a fact that Christian deeds save more lives every year than Muslim deeds take!

==================

Isn't it funny how the Hippocratic Oath doesn't seem to extend to the unborn human? It also doesn't extend to the human in a vegatative state. When the US healthcare system runs out of money - exactly like Social Security and Medicare - it'll stop extending to a lot of humans.

Mike, the government has proven to be completely unable to handle any responsibility well. The only thing the Feds are constitutionally authorized to do - protect the country - they only manage if they shut up and let the military run the show. They've set up and ruined Social Security, set up and ruined Medicare, set up and ruined Medicaid...WHY do we want them to take over EVEN MORE???

I love all this talk of take-over. It's the classic scare tactic. Last time I checked Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid still had plenty of money. They keep telling us that they are going to run out of money and yet they haven't.

But basically what you are saying is that through the constitution this should only by a military government. Take out elections all together. Last time I checked the Constitution there are quite a few rights that the government is in charge of guaranteeing every American, that's a quite bit more than protecting the country.

So you say that the government should just shut up and let the military run the show. Obama just recently followed military recommendations and is in the process of sending more troops to Afghanistan so I guess this is a decision you support Obama on.

I do find it interesting that you lump all Muslims into one easily identifiable group. Last time I checked the terrorists that are Muslim are in the mast minority. There are vast millions upon millions of Muslims that aren't violent. Do they not count or do you think they exist.

I think it is absolutely pointless to compare who has more blood on their hands it's not a peeing contest.

Religion as a whole is a great and wonderful thing and provides structure for people and their daily lives. It's the minority portion of these religions that disuse their particular Holy Book whether it be the Bible, Quaran, or any other book to fit their own ideological needs that give religions bad names.

Here is the other side of my face fredd, go ahead and slap it too.

You are so uneducated and full of hate it makes me sad to think there is world full of idiot haters like you.

Would you like to kick me too, maybe I should present myself to you in person so you could continue your attack on me. Maybe you just do this tough guy Christian hate on a blog where no one actually knows you.

I would be glad to meet you in person so you could berate me in full view of the public to show the world that you are truly in need of some love from Jesus.

Mike, I think it's interesting to hear you, a history teacher tell us how peaceful Islam is. Have you ever studied the history of it? Islam was spread throught Persia, nortern Africa, and parts of Europe by Muslims killing anyone of another faith and taking slaves. Throughout it's history Muslim Caliphs and Sultans killed their own brothers, sister, fathers, and people in order to maintain or gain power. The "prophet" Mohammed alone killed over 3000 people. It's a shock you don't know this. Islam only teaches peace for Muslims, everyone else must pay a price for being an infadel. Maybe sunnis are just listening to their inner conscience saying to them that it's not right to punish unbelievers.

I'm not on a crusade against Islam, I just find the history of the religion so extremely fascinating, that I can't stop learning about it.

Part of what is so fascinating is that, given the history of how it began and how it spread, we have fredd here, who exemplifies many people in the world today that hate Christians, yet they are tripping over history to appologize for Islam.

I don't lump all Muslims into terrorists. But now that I have been learning about their faith and how it spread, what they believe about the end times and world submission to Islam, I am a little concerned.

But this blog is about healthcare. I still think that 2000 pages of smoke and mirrors designed to confuse Americans into actually knowing how they are going to take more money from rich people to pay for poor people and illegal aliens, take care of the lobbiests, take care of big money boosters, and pay off senators and representatives for their votes while we are 12 trillion in debt and counting.....is going too far.

This crappy bill DOES NOT address rising costs, i just hides the rising costs of healthcare from the consumer! How does that fix anything? You can't fix healthcare, pay off politicians and pay off all the health care companies with government money and do anything for the average American.

You are just buying into lies my friend. I would be just as happy to credit Obama for addressing my rising healthcare costs I can barely afford on my own right now if it was actually going to fix a real problem. Hiding the problem from me for 12 year and then passing the problem on to my boys is assinine.

You know, just because government is doing "something" doesn't mean it's good. Maybe Obama needs to let everyone craft this bill and not just the Democrats. I would love to take the time to get it right. I would even vote for him on a second term if he would just start all over and get some real reform going and cool his jets on taxing the rich and feeding the poor. The poor need jobs, not handouts.

Mike, how can you say we have the worst healthcare in the developed world? You can go to your hospital and have anything done you want, right this minute!

I can go out right now, and within a couple hours, be seeing a doctor. What in God's noame is wrong with you and your thinking? What is it you want, a doctor living in your house with you and following you around everywhere you go?

Where do you even get information like this? I think you are confusing our quality of care with the health of the country. I think most people do this. We would be much healthier if 70% of this country was not raised on processed and fast food. We are alarmingly overweight and so unhealthy it's scary.

I'm thankful I went self-employed and had to buy my own health ins. Before I had everything and I was unhealthy as heck. Not I have to pay for everything until I hit a $10,000 deductable so my health is priority #1. I simply cannot affod to go to the doctor more than a couple times a year at $100 a pop. I can't afford to get sick with $50-60 scripts. I can't afford any surgeries with those price tags.

I am thankful for the awareness it has given me. I feel better, look better, and I know I am healthier now and will be when I hit my 50's if I keep it up. That will save me more money than you can shake a stick at down the road.

I think the entire nation should be on a plan like me. Pay for your own stuff like visits, exams, and scripts. Health Ins should be for major stuff. People right now, including you, are demanding a plan that covers everything so you can spend your money on what? More fast food and pop, beer, cigarettes?

This may also create an environment where people start to demand more choices and competition for their hard-earned dollars. This could someday lead to consumer-driven competition, leading to reduced prices for us all. A government plan will only mask those costs and allow the health care industry to continue to ramp up costs. That will destroy our economy down the road.

What is wrong with this idea? The current plan has nothing like this in it. The only reason there isn't a plan like mineis because it does not include the steal from the rich and give to the poor idea in it. It also does not give a rats *** about lobbyists and big campaign donors. It has no pork in it to pay for votes.

First off Justin as a history teacher I have studied Islam and the narrow view you just portrayed isn't even close to historically accurate. Yes Muslims did take over countries violently, what religion or country hasn't. Historically speaking once the Muslim religion took over a country they would allow those people that didn't convert to Islam to continue to worship as they please. Of course you are attacking that religion.

And yes you are correct in America you can go into a hospital and be taken care of as long as you have insurance or the money up front. If you don't you get to wait. Yes I do actually have this experience. The Tea Party staged a "death in" yesterday in Washington. I guess the irony was lost on them that what they were portraying was actually going on right now, not in some future they are creating.

People die in waiting rooms everyday.

As for the rest of what you have said you are just following the lies and distortions being fed to you.

Guillermo,

Flawed logic? Maybe. Only history can back me up.

Sure has been grand seeing how all parties are holding so close to the subject.

Almost certain Mike first concentrated on the Health Care Reform situation.

Seems we had a few detours here and there.

Was waiting for someone to present a scholarly essay on the breeding habits of Sand Hills Pheasants, as it pertains to Health Care Reform.

The major irony here is that some object to the Republican program for Medicare Funding for Physicians End-of-Life Consultations with patients facing that reality.

Chunky & Company please note "Republican Program."

Back during DubYah's first term, the GOP majority "Revised Medicare" and included Medicare Financed Physicians End-of-Life Consultations as their contribution to good medicine.

When Republican committee members in House and Senate committees, asked to include Physicians End-of-Life Consultations as part of the Health Care Reform, their request was approved.

Next thing we know, irrational opponents to any Health Care Reform, are screaming the GOP End of Life consultation provision is creating DEATH PANELS!!!

Having negotiated dozens of group medical insurance programs, with every major Medical Insurance company, I am quite familiar with Insurors' Death Panels.

Only problem, they are legions of clerks and various functionaries in the insurance bureaucracy, with the power of life and death.

At the outset, EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY wants phrasing in every group medical policy, which allows them to deny payment or any coverage whatsoever for any reason.

At the outset -- Open-ended denial of coverage for "experimental procedures or medications."

Then the insuror will refer to a Specific Schedule or Medical Society document to establish what is "Experimental."

If any procedure or medication is not included in that listing or documentation, the insuror will deny payment.

Insist upon seeing that list, report or documentation. Expect serious delay, because you are going to get it.

If you ever see it, expect to find it was released and published in 1915.

Only those procedures which are included in that document ate covered by the insurance.

Since only about 95% of all medical procedures and medications in use today have been developed since 1915 -- Clerical workers can routinely deny almost anything.

THAT IS A LARGE DEATH PANEL.

just got my letter in the mail today telling me my health insurance, or lack thereof, is going up axactly 9% at the begining of the year. Take out 3% for inflation, and that means about 6% is the cost of healthcare going up.

That sucks for me, but it's not a lot of money considering I can only afford a bare bones plan that requires me to pay for basically everything medically until I hit $10,000. So basically pay for everything up until the heart attack or major car accident.

I'm not that upset about it, other than the fact that this means the crap I pay for out of my pocket is also going up 6% too.

It's funny to me, here I am a private business owner just scrapping to make ends meet, yet the people that get healthcare from fed, state, and city benefits have it so much better than me it makes me sick. I am the one paying for it and get it in the backside!

So tell me, all knowing Mike, how is this so called "reform" going to help bring my costs down and not create more budget liabilities? I'd love to hear your answer because by your post, you sure sound like you must know what every single page says as you are calling anyone who says anything about that has an (R) next their name a LIAR.

Also, I guess I could keep going all day long on deaths by Muslims as well. We'll see who has a bigger death toll.

And you are right, a nation conquered by Muslims did have freedom to practice they're religion. They were referred to as dhimmis. They were almost slaves. When a nation was conquered by Muslims, you had 3 choices if you were sitll alive: die, convert, keep your religion and live as a dhimmis. This means you had few basic humans rights, you paid very large tributes to your masters, you didn't wear as nice of attire as your masters, and your masters had every right they wanted over you. Must have been some kind of living. Sounds almost like Jim Crow.

I can imagine someday when there are few Christians left and the world is becoming Muslim since the US has signed deals to reduce global warming like China and there is only 1 child per family, yet Muslims continue with 8 per family. We may live as dhimmis.

I love how you "free-thinkers" claim the Crusades were nothing more than bloody, murderous Christian assaults on the world. It had nothing to do with the murderous Muslim expansion? How many times did they sack Constantinople? Now called Istanbul for some strange reason. Muslims were killing and enslaving everyone that stood in their way for hundreds of years, at some point sooner or later, someone had to start fighting back right?

Christopher Columbus set sail to find a new route to India, why? Muslims had sealed off trade routes to the east. I guess Obama is right, Islam DID have a lot to do with the foundation of this country! LOL.

I remember the German exchange student we had in highschool. man did he hate the Turks. They had some bad names for them. I always wondered why. Was a black and white thing? No. Maybe it was a 500 year old hatred dating back to when the Turks lay seige to Hungary, Romania, and Germany.

I just think it's interesting that every seems to be able to point out how Christians have murdered everyone and their dog, yet cannot even give one instance of Islam oppression and death. Is everyone afraid they will killed for their blasphemy? Aren't they peaceful? Why won't the media or movies ever portray them in a negative light, yet they'll attempt to completely tear down Christianity. Just some observation.

Oh, and I also am not a big fan of organized religion. I think it's nothing but politics and BS. I have come to believe that it's faith over religion. Always will be. Once you get one of those big churches like Oral and Jimmy, it's not about God, it's about power and money. That will always get you in the end.

Oh I was so hoping you were going to bring up the Christopher Columbus myth about why he was looking for a new route. The facts are (not the revisionist or anti-muslim lies) that the Muslims did not close the passage they kept it open and the route actually became safer.

I think it is hilarious that people honestly believe the largest religion in the world is under attack and will soon not exist anymore. There isn't even reality based in that. Your inclusion of everyone is almost as far fetched as all muslims are murderers. I seem to remember quite a few movies that came out in the last 10 years or so that portrayed muslims in a very negative light. The reason that some can point to more examples of Christian murderers is because the majority of this country is Christian, most of us were raised Christian and raised on Christian history. Simply put we know more about Christianity history than we do about Muslim history.

As to your health reform question. The current bill being pushed in the Senate would hurt you. I am opposed to it as I stated in my original blog. Not only is the public option gone which would have cut costs for small businesses there is a mandate that Americans get health insurance, whether they can afford it or not. This bill needs to be killed.

Honestly I think that Harry Reid should restore the original plan as passed by the House and let the Republicans and Lieberman and Nelson not allow a vote and kill it. You then would see a movement larger than the one that got Obama into the White House to get all Democrats that voted against the reform out and some Democrats in that actually listen to the voice of the people and not whose paying the majority of their campaign funds.

Guillermo,

I would have the same reaction IF this very same recommendation had occurred under Fmr. President George W. Bush as I did with President Barack Obama.

So even in the original form, how does government paid public option help drive down costs?

I think we have a fundamentally different way of looking at a cost. If the government is flipping the portion I can't pay, that costs more money. It also doesn't incline the health care companies to lower costs, only raise them.

I think either bill would be bad. And isn't it amazing that for the first time history you would be forced to buy something you may not want. Let's be real, some people in this country may not need health insurance. I mean, if I made over a million dollars a year I sure as hell wouldn't share that some overpaid CEO! Would you?

What I still can't figure out is how this whole process is just side stepping the real issues. Is it really the health insurance companies that is the porblem? After all they are just middle men that provide a service of pooling our money together and cooperatively help us pay for health care costs right?

So why are they the problem with rising costs? Do the hospitals, doctors, clinics, laywers, drug companies, etc not a have a part to play in this also? Is taxing them to oblivion, as these bills would provide, going to make things cheaper for us? Or will they just pass the tax on to us as comsumers?

Maybe true reform should come as something that reduces costs at the horse's mouth, not down river. Look around. Look at McCook, every small business in this town is scared ******** of the socialized future, we're not spending money, we're eating Ramen noodles, and fixing up old equipment to save money. Down the street the perfectly adequate and nice hospital, after multi-million dollar expansion and facelifts is again adding another 21 million dollar wing that we will pay for.

In recent years in McCook alone, the only industry with any kind of money to expand or improve is the hosptital, clinic, and now an urgent care clinic. Everyone else is eating dog food to pay for it and not go belly up.

Is still don't think you answered my question. I want to know the particulars in this bill that are claiming to reduce costs. Is there tort reform?

And fredd, you are so rediculously clueless. You think that giving feds all the power in the world is going to make your life beter. These people already have their hands in the cookie jar so deep we don't know how to stop it. Giving them the all knowing, all seeing power you want means, we'll lose complete control of OUR government for good.

Is it not bad enough that only an Ivy league, secret society millionaire, or crooked cess pool Chicago politicians can get in, only to keep the American people out of the loop of what they do.

They use our money to jetset around the world for pleasure, then they vote on bills based on the biggest payday for the next election cycle. They craft bills not for the American people, but for the lobbyists and big $$ constituents. They don't even have to use the same system as we have to use for their healthcare and retirement! Why would they care to make ours right when they're set for life!?!?!?!

Republicans and democrats disgust me. Republicans had a chance to show America who's boss and they couldn't turn away from the pork table on this bill! They are ALL looking for the cookies in the cookie jar and they know **** well you and I are not going to be able to stop them. Pelosi can do whatever she wants with our money.

We have such a large debt the number are numbing. They basically look at like this, what's couple of million here and a couple of million there? That won't even show up on a spreadsheet with all the zeros behind the debt.

I think we need to abandon health insurance and especially employee provided health insurance. Employers could just pay more, and the money should go into an HSA account and draw interest. People in general would then have the power to make their own decisions for what they need. That will create more of a competitive marketplace where the health care industry....for the first time ever, is going to have to compete for our business instead of expect it!

I came up with this based on my personal experiences and logic. It, however, does not provide any incentives for campaign boosters, lawyers, or swarmy lobbyists. Darn.

Also, if you want to talk about how lousy the health care industry is in America, especially out here in hillbilly land where we got no edmucated docters, just ask me about my wife and 5 year old son, who nearly died right here in McCook, yet the doctors, all 6 of them came to her rescue, even before they asked for our insurance card! Holy cow! I guess we just slipped through the system, they decided to save her life and deliver my son early, before they knew I'd be able to pay for it!

Where Justin and others are running off the road vis-a-vis Health Care Reform and the dreaded government control.

ITEM: Professional woman, insured, receives traumatic injury to her right hand at 6:45 p.m. on a Tuesday.

At 7:05 p.m. she arrives in a major teaching university's emergency room waiting lobby.

First requirement -- Produce proof of insurance.

Second action -- Nurses refuse to allow the injured patient disinfectant and cleaning materials to remove dirt and germs from the injured hand's open wounds.

Then wait while the ER staff treats dozens of uninsured sick children -- and wait -- and wait -- and wait -- while the welfare cases are treated.

Finally at 7;55 a.m., nurses take the patient to an examination room, where the open wound is cleared of dirt, dried blood, etc.

"This has been dirty so long, you'll need a tetanus shot."

At 8:30 a.m., another nurse brings a rolling table with the needs for an ER doctor to stitch the open wound -- without any painkiller in a totally sore hand.

The nurse bandages the hand and the patient is released after 14 hours in the Major Teaching Hospital Emergency Room.

Three days later the bill arrives for submittal to the patient's group insuror --- $4,187.91.

Maybe someone can explain their certain knowledge that the U.S. Health Care System does not have problems.

It the system was not broken for that patient, "what'nell" does it take?

One of the huge particulars trimming the fat out of medicare and medicaid. An unlike the lying liars on the right in Congress, nothing that has been proposed to be cut will affect anyone on medicare and medicaid. Strangely enough with proposals of cutting fat out of government programs which Republicans campaign on every election cycle, suddenly they don't want to do that, even though they are biggest opponents of medicare and medicaid they now (politically motivated of course) want the programs left alone.

Hank, your anecdotal account of an apparentely insured person simply doesn't have the ring of truth.

I think you have simply found an electronic soap box to bellow out your fairy tale coffee shop bull.

your sycophantic bloggers rally round and say yea thats the story, that happened to me just the other day, twice.

This health care reform bill does nothing to improve health care. It will heap more and more taxes upon people who are taxed out.

So let me get this right. The right only lies, and the left only tells the truth? I never knew this was so cut and dry.

It's so amazing that I have yet the hear a single word from a democrat that crafted this bill so say what the provisions actually are other than it will now save the country from bankrupcy. How?

They just expect us to swallow our doubts and let them take care of us without and explaination. Then Mike tells us the right does nothing but. How do you know, when you don't know what the bill even means, sicne you didn't go to law school?

fredd, if Joe is a dick, and you are the opposite of him, what does that make you? Nice language btw. I thought you were supposed to get banned for that.

GI. can you please proof your comments? Geez, you're an educator for Pete's sake!

I find it funny that in the original blog, you talk about how Republicans refuse all bipartisanship in every case but that the Democrats seek bipartisanship. But then the examples of those holding up the bill are Democrats or DINO's. So I guess from a certain perspective you are right some Democrats are seeking bipartisanship by AGREEING with Republicans and that makes them traitors. Rather than seeking compromise with Republicans the leaders are seeking compromise within thier own party.

If not all Democrats are on board with something, why is it obstructionism for Republicans to not be on board either?

I never said it wasn't obstructionism for those Democrats who are only out to get more money from insurance companies. If you look at the three Democrats and one independent who are opposed to the public option and any kind of health care reform their top donors are in fact insurance companies.

But the those Democrats who are opposed aren't opposed to every single thing that the Republicans do. You find it funny? I find it even funnier that Republicans have tweeted and gone on record as saying they plan to delay health care reform fully. They give no reasons just that they are going to delay. That SWNebr is obstructionism.

fredd your comment about Joe Lieberman has been flagged for language. Justin your comment in response to fredd has also been flagged for repeating said language. I realize I am late on this but I went to bed early last night.

of course, the vile liberal lingo gets everybody flagged. I guess I fell victim to trying to point out what was obvioulsy liberals looking the other way as fellow liberals get down and dirty. Silly me.

So I guess you operate, Justin, under the guise that if someone else uses language first it's perfectly fine to use it again.

This does go to a point that I have made over and over. You go ballistic when I flag a conservative for using language or ballistic and claim that I am denying free speech but as soon as a liberal uses language you start shouting that they should be flagged.

I flogged for language and you're happy that the liberal got flagged but upset that you got flagged for the same language

I flagged him Justin what in the world else did you want me to do. I'm sorry that I made it an early night and that's got you all bothered. The matter has been taken care of. But don't expect to use the same language and not get flagged yourself.

This is a note to everyone. Tone it down. Calling each other names is childish and bush league. If all you want to do is call other people names find another blog. If you can't debate find another blog.

I don't think it's obstructionism because they HAVE said there is a reason to delay. You just don't wan't to hear the logic. You claim that all the polls indicate Americans by far, favor healthcare reform. I say they do also, just not this version. I want reform, badly. I just don't want this, because I consider this reform. I consider this a masked effort of socialism and the "promised" spreading around the wealth he promised in his campaign.

That's the difference. I think they may finally be realizing that something does need to be done, finally. But we need to slow down and get it right instead of this race to get as many bills passed before we lose the majority and to make our president look mentallity. It of course, comes down to politics as usual on both sides.

You guys can keep score all you want. Tell me what programs we already have that are socialist, yadda, yadda, yadda. The fact is, sooner or later, people with money will run out of it if all we do it set up a society that relies on taking from it. This is not sustainable. I agree, there are people that make way more money than they deserve. But who elected you the morallity police? maybe you get more than you deserve sometimes, maybe I do sometimes. Who getsto decide what fair and what isn't? Our government? The organization that is full of self-righteous fat cats? No thank you.

We need to, if anything, set up a society that is focusing more on self-responsibilty and participationism. Is that a word? Not sure, but you get the idea. Setting up things like you want to, where the government controls what is fair and what is not, and creates a system in whcish we heavily depend on other for our well-being is dangerous.

You are a history teacher. Tell me that there was ever a time in history when people thought that the society they lived in was the greatest ever and it would never face adversity or disaster, and then it acually didn't. There has never been a society that was at a peak that sustaned it and survived all adversity. So tell me, is making people more dependant on government setting the standards and taking care of everyone going to be our salvation down the road? What if the U.S. government fails and doesn't exist 20 years from now? What is a nation full of overweight, type II diabetic, dependant mass of people that don't know how to run a country going to do when that day comes?

GI, just think it's funny you're so critical of everyone with a typo, yet you use the word "sans," meaning "without" as a verb, when it is a preposition. It still doesn't make any sense in that context, unless you meaning to spell "cans." That would make more sense, but it still means you had a typo and boy, you really have fallen from grace considering your high standards and ease of railing on people when they do the same. I just assumed you never made mistakes.

I actually enjoy debating with you Mike, and GI. I get tired of the self-righteousness sometimes, I am guilty of that as well. I am a college educated person too, so I don't like being called a hillbilly bottom feeder because I choose to live in Nebraska and I believe in self-responsibilty and not all people are meant to make the same living, some are smarter, some work harder, and some are luckier. I am not a well-to do person either.

I just don't see the point is allowing feds to be the ones to decide who gets to make money and how much. Then there will just be one more person standing in the way of your rights to make your own way. Government has yet to prove to be a reliable and honest entity. I am befuddled that people actually want more government control.

I do get tired of the fredds of the world. They only come here with hate and ignorance. It goes beyond a difference of opinion, it's just pure stupidity oozing through the pores.

If I get banned I guess I deserve it. I was just really taken back that someone used that language without any reason other than just to be stupid.

G, are you mad I pointed out your typographical error or what? Lately I've been called a hillbilly, bottom-feeder, racist, moron, I can't even remember all the rest from this blog. Most of it comes from you.

Yes, I can use foul language, I'm not perfect, I think I've stated that before. I have a LOT of faults. I don't think I've resorted to the name calling that you have, but that's just my opinion.

You exemplify the left. You are all out there saying that the conservative mouth pieces are preaching hate and violence, yet it is onlt liberals that are acting out in violence toward conservative protestors and rally participants this year.

Then here you are...jumping all over me, calling me names, berating me because we have a difference of opinion, like my education was a waste when compared to yours, and I'm the hypocrite.

Whatever.

My apoligies oh great one. It does make sense now that I read it again. You still have a typo, "yo."

So here we are fighting over our spelling instead of the issue at hand. Funny you've never jumped one of you own over these things.

Some these guys use all caps and line after line, one long sentance and no paragraph structure whatsoever.

Maybe I type too fast for a person with no keyboarding skills at all. I peck very fast, but have to look at my fingers while I do it. Sometimes while I'm reading I'm thinking of other things at the same time.

I guess that makes me a bottom-feeding hillbilly and I should ask the University of Nebraska-Lincoln for my money back.

Justin in what may be a rare occasion I absolutely agree with you on the debating and the people that come her for one reason and one reason only, and that's too be hateful and rude.

You and I have taken different paths to arrive at our beliefs through life, but I think one think both of us can agree on is that both of us have the tendency to get carried away with defending ourselves.

For the record I do not consider you a hillbilly bottom feeder for choosing to live in Nebraska. I love Nebraska, despite the fact that if I am to ever move back I would most likely be one of a few thousand liberals in the state.

Having said that, back to debate:

Republicans haven't had a clear reason to delay anything. They keep saying we need to slow down, but we have needed healthcare reform for 50 years, how much slower do they want it to go.

I also call them obstructionist because they will get the majority of amendments into a bill and then still vote against it. On one particular amendment they got 145 amendments on the bill and instead of voting on it they wanted every single amendment re-read. That's being in opposition just to be in opposition.

And just to state on the record again, I am against the current bill in the Senate. It does nothing to help Americans who can't afford health care coverage.

I'm hopeful that when this version is passed by the Senate, House members will hold to their word and strip out all the crap.

Well fredd will probably switch back to attacking me for all my beliefs. Something I think a lot of you may not have noticed but when fredd started here all of his hate was directed at myself and liberals, then he switched gears to conservatives. Fredd is the pure definition of a flamer. Fredd is only here to cause dissent and hopefully get people to go to his level.

Another example of Republican obstructionism, they actually filibustered the spending bill that pays for Iraq and Afghanistan in an effort to slow down the debate on the health care reform. They are on record saying this.

It was just a year ago that these same Republicans were declaring that any delay in funding for the wars would cause our military heavy casuality losses, yet last night there they were using money meant for the military as a political plow against Obama.

Fortunately the filibuster was broken about 2 am. THAT is obstructionism to it's finest.

Just a few quotes from some of the Republicans the filibustered the spending bill last night from past spending bill votes:

"Playing politics with the critical funding that our troops need now is political theater of the worst kind." -- Sen. John Cornyn, [Press Release, 4/26/07] and yet there he was last night playing politics.

"Every day we don't fund our troops is a day their ability to fight this war is weakened." -- Sen. Mitch McConnell, [Press Release, 3/31/07] and yet there he was last night trying to delay funding for the troops.

"I don't understand this attitude of, 'We can play with; we can risk the lives of these troops by waiting until the last possible minute to get the funding to them." -- Sen. Jon Kyl, [FOX News Transcript, 4/10/07] and yet there he was trying to push funding to the last possibly minute to make a political point.

Here's the thing I don't understand about politicians (it covers also entertainers, tv personalities but politicians are the most guilty) but in 2009 do they still not understand that everything they say is out there for anyone to see?

fredd , fredd, fredd...

G, please correct fredd's gramatical errors for us. Thanks.

Anyway,

I know this reform has been needed for a long time. I feel sick that I kind of sit around and felt like everything was alright while Bush was in office. It wasn't. I'm not getting into the war on terroism, just conservatism in general. I let my eye off the ball. I think a lot of us did and it took a guy who started his political career at Bill Ayers' house, went to a church for 20 years to listen to a guy spill vile crap about American and it's whitey population, a guy who has very little executive experience but promised to do things many have only dreamed about.

We took the status quo for granted. Now we see our country at a crossroads. We need to help people, but we are so far in debt it's mind boggling. We need to change things, but not so it makes us worse off in 20-30 years. We need real change, not just something that makes a small group of people feel like their getting their due, only at the expense of many.

I just got done writing my 3rd District representative of the House about an hour ago. I told him my humble story with health care. I told him how we need real reform. I said politicians are always getting in the way of real American progress. They are right now, they have in the past.

We need to get a solution to the problem, and that is the rising costs of health care, and the declining health of our nation. What they are doing now, other than political posturing, is fixing the SYMPTOMS of the problem. That means they are mearly finding ways in which to get health care for the people that can't afford it via the people that can. That will not fix the root of the problem.

My guess is that there are too many companies, lawyers, and campaign boosters in the line of fire for a real solution, therefore it will NEVER happen.

You and I are on the same page Mike. We both want a better, stronger, healthier naiton. I don't want to see anyone turned away at a hospital anymore than you do. I just don't think the political bandaids are good long term fixes. I'm not sure the GOP ever has a real answer either...in fact, I'm sure they don't.

They haven't proven to me that they can rise above the political porkfest of the American tax payer anymore than a tax and spend liberal.

That's what is so frustrating. It doesn't seem to me that anyone in DC is really representing the American people.

You know, part of the reason I got involved with the tea parties this spring is not because I truly believe we have taxes with no representation...I know what the original tea party and subsequent revolution was about. That does not mean we don't have the right to assemble and make our concerns known.

I thought it was a good opportunity to say to people, "listen up! Your government is not listening to you! You need to ask them questions! You need to hold them accountable!"

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yes, many got a little crazy and attacked the president, well that happens. He IS a radical president and it took a failing republican party to get him elected. I'm glad to see a black man finally become president, I'm just glad it wasn't Jesse Jackson, then he would have had full executve powers to extort money from any business without a black man working there, like mine! Just not crazy about his affiliations and ideas for government controlled equallity. That is a scary idea.

This dipping into the cookie jar for pet projects is a disease that has spread to all political parties. It is the means by which a president can assert his will whenever he needs to. That is not quality representation. The example here is the threat to Ben Nelson to shut down Offutt to teach him a lesson. Now, is that smart? Or an inexpensive thing to do, just to teach a senator a lesson? It should be illegal.

I particularly don't like this practice of the leadership paying out money to get votes for the party's respective bills in the house and the senate. the problem with that is that it is money talking, not the constituents. That should most certianly be illegal. I didn't even now that really happen so much until the last few years. And that goes both ways, I'm sure the GOP does it too. It should be illegal!

The trips these people take, the money they spend, the raises, the pay, benefits, pet projects, backside money....it all costs the tax payers mountains of moola. And yet we pay it to them and expect them to just keep doing more and more. I fear that someday we could walk right into a dictatorship and not even know it until it's too late, because only the rich and priveledged usually make it to government. The rest of us are too busy cutting back, making the next paycheck, arguing on blogs than paying attention to know what's going on right under our noses.

People think I'm crazy for letting this stuff bother me and spending time writing letters and attending rallies. I'm not saying government is evil, but it is an avenue for greed, deception, power, money, and we can't let them have without a fight. We must make government accountable for it's actions, much like a small business would be liable for making really stupid business decisions.

Mike, I could also point out Nancy Pelosi's comments that are out there for the world to see.

A few years ago she was giving a speech and she was applauding people (liberals) that were out protesting and speaking out against the government....

Then, just this spring, when there were millions of people across the country protesting (conservatives) she was crying and visibly shaken (more likely "fakin") and was worried about Nazis and violence and, wow it was just interesting to say the least. She even referred to the violence she witnessed during the 70's social uprisings....those were liberals btw~!

Now we know today, that not one liberal bystander or anyone like that was hurt during these town halls and tea parties, yet, there were several protestors that were attacked by liberals, one had a finger bitten off!!!!!

It just goes to show you that nothing is beneath a politican of any party. Nothing will stop these people from getting whatever it is they want, not morals, not values, not lives, not responsibility, only money and power.

Justin, what exactly has Obama done that is so radical? I want that question answered. Every time I ask I get answers about what people think he will do and not what he has actually done. Some give the answer of pushing up the deficit with the stimulus package, but if you actually look at the numbers it is a very VERY small percentage of the deficit.

Maybe I'm just not looking very hard because nothing that Obama has done has really been very radical and quite honestly nothing he has done has been liberal.

As far as the threatening of Nelson goes, that lie has already been debunked. Nelson has even come out and said that he wasn't threatened.

I don't think you are crazy Justin for writing letters and attending rallies, you actually exemplify what it is to be American. I do my part when I can. I live in Arkansas and when it became clear that my senator Blanche Lincoln was opposed to a public option I wrote her a letter and let her know that, I also wrote a letter to my local paper to let the people of my area know that I was not going to vote for Lincoln next year and I'm not going to.

I liked the idea of the Tea Party at the beginning because it was one of the few times Conservatives stood up for what they believed. Yes I made fun of them when the whole Tea Bagger thing came up, just like I made fun of that liberal a year ago shouting at cops not to taser him.

But watching the Tea Party now, it is clear that they have allowed the radicals to take over that actually want harm to come to President Obama. Comparing any American president to Hitler or comparing health care reform to Soviet era gulags takes away from your message because it allows people to dismiss you.

Fundin,

That antecdotal tale happened.

I drove the victim to the hospital and waited all night for help. About ten p.m., walked to a drug store, bought peroxide, guaze and bandages to clean the hand. For which I caught Hell from the nurses the next morning.

They still gave her the tetanus shot ($180).

I personally had group medical from 1957, through 1995, when it moved through COBRA to a private policy.

The insurance company, one of the biggest, jacked me around the last two years -- denying coverage and then delaying payment for months with deceit after lie following deceit.

At the same time, the Primary Care Doctor they insisted was the only doctor I could use, sent me for six major biopsies and invasive tests within a 22-month period.

Turns out the specialist who performed those was his Wedneday afternoon golfing partner.

The system is broken.

At that point, I chose VA Medical Service, moving to a different VA Medical Center six times until I found high quality service.

Today, I have the best medical service of my life -- which has improved tremendously since February, under the new President.

The lady I drove to the emergency room had been a professional, a CPA and CFO/Benefits/HR director for two high tech corporations for 12 years, until the companies were sold to a European conglomerate.

When her COBRA expired, that insuror demanded $3,500 monthly premium because of her health history.

She has been uninsured since 2006 and has three years to go before she is eligible for Medicare and SSI.

One surgery has wiped out her savings.

The system is broken.

Here in our town of 5,000, there are at least 400 seniors, between 50 and 64, without any health insurance.

Routinely, a trip to a hospital emergency room will result in a bill for at least $5,000.

The hospitals come with a full battalion of attorneys for collections.

In one situation, a "collector" openly threatened a wheelchair confined woman before about three dozen witnesses.

Surprise, the claim was dropped after the hospital discovered they were in deep trouble.

The current system is broken.

Within the family, I have one Hospital Chief of Staff, one M.D. on a hospital staff, one Nursing Instructor and an RN.

Thirty-five years ago, I was one of 14 businessmen in a rural community who underwrote medical school for a young lady, who has been the only resident doctor in that community for the past 23 years.

Sixty per cent of her practice's office overhead is because of the insurance requirements, and her office staff is twice as big as the medical staff, just to meet demands of the insurors.

The system is broken.

Look I'm not a personal fan of Pelosi and her comments about comparing Tea Party protesters to Nazi's was stupid, but I do give her credit for, to this point at least, sticking to her guns on the public option.

We never got the full story on the finger biting incident. No charges were ever filed and from witnesses on the scene from both sides neither man was innocent in the ordeal but it was the man who got his finger bitten off that started the whole thing.

I'm sorry but to sit there and say that no liberal by stander was hurt but a conservative was is a pretty blank statement saying that your side are the peaceful ones and liberals are the dirty fighters and I just don't accept that. Liberal bystanders may not have been hurt during Tea Party protesters but you can't say that about liberal protesters during Bush's term. Something about your statement just doesn't sit well with me, I'm sorry.

For once, I agree with you Hank. (Twice if you count the chili discussion). Hospitals are so inefficiently run. Doctors and staff so outrageously overpaid. I have a $10,000 deductable on my health plan, and had to use it 2 years ago. Yes, I know about the collection agency the local hospital uses. The hospital set me up on a payment plan for 5 years, and bingo, 6 months into it, they demand full payment. They got it.

My monthly insurance payment doubled, so I dropped it. The money I was paying on insurance coverage, I now put on a health savings account. Granted, it will never cover the medical costs of a hopital stay, but it may cover my burial costs. I call it the "all or nothing plan".

Well it was not much more than a year ago it was liberals camparing Bush to Hitler and Pol Pot due to all the war dead. I'm not making a case for war dead, although it pails in comparison to say the least when compared to any other military campaign in our nation's history in the overall campaign itself and the average of dead per year as well.

Obama is radical. If Bill Ayers isn't radical then we need to change the defintion of it. You know, I'm not a radical person, because I don't spend time with people like that. If I was going to a church in which a pastor taught those things, I would have left in a heartbeat. My seat would not have been warmed by my breif presence. I know you can find better churches than that. I even question my Catholic church here lately as it seems we are abck to walking a thin line between what it was in the 15th century and now. I am not a craddle Catholic, I came by it by choice, as a former athiest.

I don't like being in the presence of racists or bigots. If I were, I would remove myself, and I don't even have political aspirations that might be affected by my associations. People like that just make me uncomfortable and I do not wish to share my valuable time with them.

Why Bill Ayers himself would not make someone's skin crawl, I don't know. How Barry could have gone to Wright's church for so long, enough to call him his spritual mentor, and never hear any of the anti-American, anti-white, anti-capitalism hate that was preached there is nothing short of a miracle! That's why I can't trust the man. None of the pieces fit together in his carefully crafted public image.

The rhetoric about spreading around the wealth is a little scary. If they can't do it with a direct tax it seems they'll do it by this so-called health care reform and indirect taxes like the Cap and Trade farce. I just don't trust them to do what's right.

I think in my own mind, the time he spent in the cess pool of inner city Chicago he sees things through the eyes of a forgotten citizen, that has taken advantage of and abused by the rich masses of this country where everyone else is wealthy and elite. I hate to go to this leve, but I wonder how much of his policies are coming from a minorty point of view as it pertains to what's fair in this world and what's not.

I don't like to go there but, it needs to be brought out. I think it's that aspec that makes him a radical. No, he's not Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, but maybe you and I have a difference of opinion about what make someone radical. I guess it's a relative term.

In reality I would probably benefit from a society that takes from the rich and gives to the poor, I mean, I'm borderline poor now. Not because I have no education or desire, I just have long road ahead of me growing my young business in a poor economy and rising costs, while supporting a family of four in the meantime.

What I don't believe in is the federal government trying to take on the roll of leveling the playing field for us. Yes there are crooks and cheats in the world of business. But to send a bunch of crooks and cheats after them (government) doesn't work either. We've been doing this how long now? Two wrong don't equal a right.

I'm going to continue to speak these things no matter what people call me and how much flack I take. I'm tired of people lying down and taking it. I'm tired of people assuming that whatever it is they need is all of a sudden a right under the constitution. I want the American people to have more self-responsibility instead of whining. I work long hours to get what my family needs.

Much of these things could esclate to something else. Once the government starts to provide something, a few generations later, we'll want more, and more, and more.

Haven't we already seen that?

We both want the same thing. I would like to see Obama coo his jets on his anti-business strategies, inspire instead of scare, and come through with some of his compaign promises of less corruption in government and more transparency. The man can speak. Use it to inspire people to do better instead of using it to threaten your pown people and make excuses and blame past administrations for all your challenges.

None of these bills are being written in full view. We have more goverment expansion that ever. Yes we do, with all these bailouts and spending increases.

But you haven't answered the question, what has he DONE as president that is radically liberal? The only thing that he has actually done is expand gun rights. I don't particularly see that as radical or liberal.

Don't give me the Bill Ayers argument either. There is no proof that other than one dinner years ago Obama and Ayers have any real connection. But being around what some consider radical does not a person make.

So my question still stands what has President Obama actually done, not discussed, not proposed, but actually done in the first 11 months of his presidency that is more radical than any other president before him?

Yet again you fall right of the respect part. Your disdain for Obama is so deep that you only refer to him as Barry, you won't even refer to him as Obama or President.

If you want to make the jump that going to a church where there preacher spouted some awful things (and I'm not denying that) makes Obama guilty by association then could I not also say that because you are Catholic you are guilty by association because of the large amount of pedophiles in power in the Catholic church?

I'm not going to because I don't make those leaps. I don't view all those that are Catholics as pedophiles just as I don't view all those that were in attendance during Wright's horrific statements as agreeing with him or even Sarah Palin for believing in exorcism simply because the pastor of her church does.

Obama can't keep his campaign promises any better that any other president. I believe he said that he would lower taxes on 95% of the people. Now what I read about this health care bill is that taxes will go up on everyone, in some form. Such as taxes on health benefits. Taxes on HSA accounts. Etc etc. Cutting $500 mil from Medicare means that services will have to be less.

The public option, government competing against private insurance will surely be the end of private insurance companies as the government doesn't have to worry about profit or meeting a payroll, the government will simply raise taxes or print more money.

I'm not trying to keep score on who hurts who Mike. My point is that the liberals were clearly using scare tactics to try to trivialize the protests and maybe even spark violence to make the point. The point is it wasn't violent.

Even the big protest on the Mall not long ago with a half a million people, there was no violence.

It just seems like I try to get you to look at an overall idea, and you just want to pick one little thing out to make a whole case abotu something I said to take us away from the debate.

Just like the public option. Fine, you want a public option becuase it will help some people and now there are a lot of lies out there about it.

Look beyond the public option, if you can. What problem will it solve? Will it solve any problem? Do you know the difference between a problem and the symptoms of a problem? That is what I am asking you.

Do you really thing the public option will solve a long term trend or problem, or is it just designed to alieviate some unrest at the present time?

Please tell me you can at least debate that.

Mike, are stretching so far, I cannot debate this with you anymore or I will lose my cool. You may be right about barack not being as radical as I think, but the rest of what you said is at best, idotic and you know it.

I thought maybe we'd farther than that. I can't believe you would compare the transgressions of some priests to what Rev. Wright actually preaches in his church. It's just not as simple as guilt by associaiton, but then again you know that, you just can't get real enough to have a grown up debate about it.

Too bad, I thought we were getting somewhere.

And I didn't make up the name Barry, he did that himself. I've never chided anyone for calling Bush... Dubbya, or W, or whatever.

Barack called himself Barry in college and I find it easier typing that than BARACK so sue me. Again, you illustrate my point exactly that you'll get tied up in something as trivial as me calling him Barry instead of Barack to avoid grown up debate of your banter. Then, you'll go further by being appaulled and shocked over it, like it's a big deal.

You guys have never had a problem calling Bush, Dubya, so I don't see any reason to have our panties all twisted up over the name Barry. But here we are again, not debating this public option.

Now that I see what you took from my previous post I can tell already that we are not going to debate the public option and it's relevance in actually fixing a problem. We are going to avoid and talk about how I am always slamming Obama. I should have known better.

Yes, I know G, my typing sucks. My words come out faster than my il-trained fingers can type. I pre-apologize before you start your onslaught and degradation of my education.

You are condemning Barack Obama through guilt of association. You have branded him a radical because of people in his past.

I thought you could stay above the fray but by calling me and my ideas idiotic you proved me wrong. But I do have to ask, are you seriously calling priests committing acts of pedophillia against young boys as not only as "transgressions" but less offensive than remarks by Reverend Wright?

Also, in a real debate you don't close the debate on your own because you don't think the person is going to answer the question. I apologize that I took some time away from the blog to welcome my dad into town.

I believe the public option in it's original form, original proposal while not solving all problems would have helped more people than you are willing to allow.

The original idea of the public option was for the government to offer it's own insurance (much like the Post Office). People who didn't have insurance or were unhappy with their insurance could have taken this option at a fairer price even with pre-existing conditions. That would drive all insurance prices down. Would it have affected the profits of the big business insurance companies? Of course, but unlike the doomsdayers it wouldn't have put any of them out of business.

By the boojun, Obama already kept his promise of cutting taxes of 95% of Americans.

And what tax is that you speak of? Some $200 check somewhere? It doesn't make much sense to give us a $200 tax break if the current spending is goin up so much, the economy is down so bad, and so many people are out of work that we'll be paying that back someway, somehow, and somewhere.

So, did he lower self-employment tax cuz you know, we haven't filed yet, along with the other hundreds of million people or so for 2009, the only year Obama has been in office. So how did this tax break get to me?

What you said is truly idiotic as idiotic IS a word and it does have a meaning. I just thought it was a nicer way of saying asinine, but who cares now.

You are telling me, that if a priest in Boston, let's say....rapes a young man, then by me going to the Catholic Church in McCook, Nebraska means that I am getting preached to about the joys of pedophillia from my pedophile priest. Am I getting that correctly? You really think that is the same thing as a person sitting in a pew for 20 years, listening to man preach hate for America, only to one become a president of the same America.

If that were the same thing, then I could walk into a school in McCook, let's say, and calling him a bonehead, and that will be just the same as saying to your (Mike's)face. DO I have that right?

I'm not sure I've ever used that kind of logic before, if you can even call it logic. SO basically, if the subject ever comes up again, about what kind of message Obama's "spritual mentor" gave him for 20 years, you, as his apologist, can just run and hide under the fact that, in my case, I am Catholic and there's a slim to none chance my priest may be a pedophile and therefore I have nothing to contribute that's credible.

What if Obama is a pedophile. I mean, we don't know for sure he's not. Maybe teachers are pedophiles since they like to be around kids all day. Now I'm starting to wonder.

I'm sorry Mike, but If you're a history teacher or a lawn guy, it doesn't really matter where you went to church to 350 million people. But when you are the president of those 350 million people and what some people consider the most powerful man in the world, it does.

I see this going nowhere as you once again hide behind this idiotic logic that I can't even figure out. I've never seen even this kind of debate on tv where someone would come up with this kind of crap.

Oh, and God bless you Mike, I'm sure all Priests like being branded as pedophiles for the sake of your arguements. I guess it's oaky then to label all liberals as anti-American then since I suspected it anyway. Is that oaky with you?

I don't belive that obama has changed the tax rate yet so my taxes really won't go down. Also, giving a tax rebate to those who don't pay income taxes is actually welfare, money from the general fund, money from someone else, or spreading the wealth.

My main point Justin was that you were condemning Barack Obama through guilt by association.

You decided to call me an idiot for suggesting that so I'm done responding to you, if you can't respect me enough to stay away from name calling you aren't worth my time.

Senator Ben caved in, Democrats get health care passed. At least Nebraska gets more pork out of the deal.

"Democratic leaders offered Nelson a deal similar to the $300 million in Medicaid assistance Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana got for her support, numerous sources told Fox News.

When asked about this, Sen. Kent Conrad, a key Democratic leader involved in the negotiations with Nelson, said, "Oh, it'll be much more.""

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/18/nelson-cites-real-progress-health-car...

This is how he caved in, more of Washington politics, politics as usual.

Get ready boys, your taxes are going up.

Your's to fredd, don't get splinters from the public feed bunk.

Mike - Don't be a hypocrite and start the "name calling" stuff. If you didn't want people to call you names you need to look in the mirror.

You live in Arkansas. You have never lived in SW Nebraska. You blog on McCook Gazette.com because 90% of the area are conservatives and you are a liberal.

The only reason you blog is to stir the pot. Because you know for a fact that you cannot change people's opinions abour Religion or Politics.

Yet you choose to post in a community that is over 600 miles from you.

At least I went to school in McCook and still own property and contribute to the McCook Foundation and the save the wave at the Y.

Justin and friends,

LOUD COMPLAINTS about how the poor downtrodden Republicans have not been invited into Democratic Caucauses this past month.

According to your guys, that means the Poor Downtrodden Republicans have not been allowed to have their say on any legislation.

REALITY -- At least 169 amendments out of just under 200 accepted amendments to committee proposals came from REPUBLICANS.

Present proof of any time within the past 150 years when a Democrat was admitted into a GOP party caucaus.

The Party Caucus is where both parties seek to resolve differencs between their own members, without a divisive floor debate confusing the issue.

If a Republican votes in opposition to his party caucus, that Republican will suffer a political lynching. GOP party control is absolute.

If a Democrat speaks or votes in oppositon to his party caucus, it is quite normal and does not draw formal censure.

The floor leaders in both houses have cut out several of the major points to satisfy all elements of the Democratic Party.

Sen. Nelson got Nebraska RELIEF IN PERPETUITY for the state's share of costs, in return for his vote. That means Nelson is the BLACKMAILER, his party's leadership are the BLACKMAIL VICTIMS.

He also secured additional verbage regarding abortion, so he can claim a meaningless victory there.

Nebraska Republicans and conservatives are receiving a huge subsidy from the federal government and contributing to the federal deficit.

Citizens of 49 states are subsidizing Conservative Parasites in Nebraska, courtesey of your conservative Democratic Senator.

Yet the complaint continues. Most approved amendments were sponsored by Republicans.

Republicans presented the proposal for insurance payments to compensate doctors for End Of Life Consultations -- and the Uber-Conservative Republicans label this Obama's Death Panels.

The Republican amendment included in every Health Care Reform bill to clear Senate and House committees is the excuse for the PROFESSIONAL OPPOSITION screaming "Obama's Death Panels."

That is dishonest, hypocritical and disgusting.

Basically, it is akin to following Larry Craig into the Airport Restroom cubicle, following Senator Ensign into his best friend's wife's bed, Gov. Mark Sanford jetting off to Argentina, Florida's Foley practicing pedophilia with Senate Pages via his office internet link, and Dick Cheney arranging no-bid contracts for his Halliburton and KBR buddies.

When ONE Republican contributes something positive toward Health Care Reform and votes for the bill, we will have seen a miracle.

The Republican opposition is far beyond corrupt politics. That opposition has reached the point where every vote, every speech is considered only for political purposes -- Sound government policy has no place in the GOP thinking.

Mike,

Supposedly you are a teacher of history, with strong emphasis upon U.S. political history.

YOU SHOULD KNOW WHO TO ATTRIBUTE THIS TO-- "POLITICS IS THE ART OF THE POSSIBLE."

Within my lifetime, idealists have repeatedly insisted upon securing passage of PERFECT LEGISLATION for Health Care Reform.

Perfection has failed to secure enough votes every time.

For the first time in history, the U.S. congress is close to approving meaningful Health Care Reform.

It is not perfect.

Some supporters felt the Clinton proposals of the mid-1990s offered perfect legislation.

IF IT CAN'T WIN ENOUGH VOTES--IT AIN'T PERFECT!!!

Hopefully, by Jan. 20-- we will have passage of serious Health Care Reform.

Not Perfect, nonetheless -- GOOD and effective.

The Democrats in this process have not conducted themselves shamefully.

There are strong differences, which the Democrats have worked to resolve and secure passage of a strong compromise HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL.

The SHAME in this situation is the sole property of the Republicans who have lock-stepped into total corruption.

wallis. before you ever sit down to criticize me again I highly suggest you know what you are talking about before you shoot your mouth off. The fact is that I did live in McCook for several years and in the state of Nebraska for even more.

So next time you want to declare that someone has never done anything before you might want to check first.

You are the worst kind of person. You assume to know everything and then chide other people because they don't agree with you or just flat make it up.

You call me a hypocrite for name calling. Exactly when have I ever called anyone on this website any name what-so-ever? Exactly when I have called anyone's thoughts or ideas idiotic?

For your information I did attend school in McCook. Try doing some research next time you decide why I am on this website and who I am.

When you said that you were on the Board of the Paul 'Bear' Bryant Award I doubted you but instead of coming on here and claiming that you weren't I researched and discovered that you were.

You owe me an apology for the lies about me that you tried to spread on here.

I figured as such

The fundamental trouble with the far right Republican'ts is their belief it is ok to lie to justify their belief.

Having grown up in Red Willow County, I used to believe there was much to admire in the GOP even though I believed in such things as universal health care. Bush II pretty much destroyed most of what is good about the GOP.

The insurance industry was given notice that the United States is fed up with outrageous health care increases when the Clinton's tried to implement meaningful change in the health care field.

Over the last 15 years,I spent 10 years on my employer's health care committee which reviewed health care coverage,costs, and stradegies to reduce or contain costs. One year the increase was over 20% not including copays that went up.

The remainder of those ten years the annual increase was always over 10%--usually over 15%.

When one medical group in northern California is proven to have over charged the federal government for 10's of millions of dollars, believe it was $85 million, greed does appear to be a major problem in the current health care climate.

Last I heard the US is 17th in quality of health care people receive in the industrialized world.

That is a shame. That is truly "un-American."

It is also fact.

Drastic health care reform is long overdue.

Negative obstructionists are the ultimate death panels as they prevent meaningful health care reform.

In recent years, several Republican Valley communities were among the five "oldest communities" in the U.S.

Many of us who worked Nebraska land and accepted urban employment afterward were forced to travel far afield for economic survival and opportunity.

I have worked in Nebraska from 1949 through the 50s, back again in the 70s into the mid-80s.

Had there been a way to remain and prosper I would never even have considered leaving.

I still love the High Plains and the majority of its people.

Granted, some of the extremist political thinkers earn my disgust.

But in the main, those folks standing in mud up to their knees with dust blowing in their eyes, are still the salt of the earth.

I also "blog" in some Montana, California, Oklahoma and Virginia on-line newspapers.

Actually, the neo-con thinkers in Nebraska are slightly left of their Oklahoma brethren.

But for some to complain that blog entries were not keyboarded in Red Willow County, or Frontier, or Furnas, or Tecumsah -- you are simply emphasizing the economic shortcomings of a good state.

Consider one reality -- In 1900, 85% or more of all young people in the 30 westernmost states, lived and worked on the land.

By 1965 -- it was down to less than 5%.

Today -- Maybe 1%, certainly not 2%.

During the Poppa Bush years, Iowa lost 500 community newspapers, which means at least 2,000 rural business districts declined drastically.

That toward the end of 16 years of Republican presidencies.

Yet the neo-cons on here continue to condemn Pres. Obama for his liberal record.

Check the facts. Obama has not introduced a single liberal program.

Health Care Reform was first proposed by Republican Giant, Teddy Roosevelt, that Dakotas Darling.

Eisenhower attempted to secure Health Care Reform modeled on European plans.

Reagan considered Health Care and decided not to even try.

Harry Truman made a modest effort in that direction.

Clinton's massive try is fresh in most adult memories.

Health Care Reform is hardly a NEW, LIBERAL, EXTREMIST proposal.

The opposition centers around one basic fact.

1998 Health Insurance Company NET PROFITS --

$2.5-BILLION collectively.

2008 Health Insurance Company NET PROFITS --

$12.5-BILLION.

WHY HAVE THOSE COMPANIES INVESTED MORE THAN $100-MILLION to stop reform.

DUH -- I can't imagine why -- NOT!!!!

"Republican vs Democrat relations have always been rocky at best, but at the present time, I can't believe it could stink any worse. Having said that, it is a fact that neither side is without blame, except in the minds of those who blindly agree with them..."

Agreed.

You've got to be kidding me right, Joe? Almost every amendment by Republicans that WERE voted down were voted down by Republicans, not by the Democrats.

I love how you guys absolutely loved Ben Nelson for five minutes now all you can do is call him names. You want respect but you only WANT respect, you won't show anyone else respect.

For eight years we were told to blindly follow the Republicans into war and if we didn't we were branded anti-American, un-America, and America haters (and those are the printable words) now all of a sudden for you people blindly following someone is tantamount to being immoral. I agree however, blindly following anyone is not a good decision. But my question is how do you justify demanding it for eight years and as soon as someone from the other party becomes president you criticize the very thing you practiced.