Stacked deck

Every city employee, council member, city attorney and all their spouses and relatives have the same rights and constitute "the public" just the same as you and everyone else in McCook. It's hard to tell what kind of point you're trying to make with your wild assumptions and accusations. You don't even know all of the 95 people you use for your figure yet you assume every last one is married, voted for the facility and their spouse (real or imagined) voted for the facility too. Not that any of that matters anyway because EVERYONE in McCook has the same rights as you do and they don't deserve to have the exercise of their rights criticized by you or anyone else simply because you think the exercise of their rights resulted in something you don't like.

Btw, I'm sure that sweating bullets for 3 1/2 hours is highly preferable to another 25 years of neglect. Everybody says they don't want to pass on their debt and problems to the next generation and when it came time to put our money where our mouth is, we saw who believed in that concept and who just gave lip service to the concept.

The community has chosen to defy the practices of the past and chose to selflessly address the problems passed down by the last generation instead of passing it on to the next and with that principle in place, our community will be better for it. This wasn't just a vote for a Public Safety Center, it was a vote that showed this community is willing to step up in order to secure its future.

When grapes hang from a dead vine, they become sour.

Mr Fraiser,

Did you act like this when you didnt get your way as a child?

So if this new facility only comforted that yet undefined 40 select City Employees, what would the other 55 employees (nuff's figure) stand to gain by voting for the ERC? Your assumption is everyone that is married to, related to or works for a city employee voted for the facility. Guess what nuff, that's probably about 35% of the McCook population, all of which, mind you have the right to vote the way they please. No one holds a gun to anyones head to vote one way or another, in fact where I voted they had these neat little booth things that you could stand in without anyone else seeing how you voted... Maybe EVERYONES voting location had them huh?

To further complicate things, if that 35% of the cities population found it important enough to vote FOR the new facility, then they may have been involved with the current facilities enough to know how bad they were 1st hand. You know, like the plumber and yo yo repairman.

So the deck was stacked with a bunch of people with the inside information required to make an informed decision.

DARN THIS FREE SOCIETY AND THEIR ELECTION PROCESS! How can anyone expect to spew fact-icious opinions around with any sort of sucess rate, in this type of system?

Please, McCook! Keep doing things right! It will give nuf said something to constantly complain about and keep him from coming back here to Colorado!

Good grief I'd really like to know where this guy gets his facts, obviously he has the "stacked deck". I guess he followed 89 city employee's and their spouse's plus city council members into the booth to know how they voted. But I'm pretty sure that there are a couple city employee's who aren't married, and a couple that I'm not sure live within the city limits. Therefore eliminating their chance to vote on this project. And with such a low voter turnout it might be safe to say not all those so called"pocket votes" were even cast. Ok that takes care of the voting issue.

Ok as far as the" vote on Nov. 2 that gave them 51⁄2 million of our tax dollars to coddle 40 employees." The vote on Nov. 2nd was for a bond issue of just over 3 million dollars. Since the forward thinking City Manager and Council had already "rat holed" 1.5 Million over the last 3 years. Kinda "shoots down" your statement about voting for 5 1.2 million.

I have a suggestion for Mr. Frasier. How about instead of always criticizing this progressive and VERY CONSERVATIVE Council and Staff for "taking your rights away". Ask yourself, " what can I do to give back to this great city?"

Enough said

deacon 71,

THAT, was a very good comment. It says it all really.

Nuff, you have absolutely no basis to your argument. To make a pliable argument for or against any issue you have to use solid facts and figures. While you're argument pre election was iffy at best, you have closed the door on it by increasing your city employee count from 40 to 89. You are assuming a lot of facts as well. I'm thinking not all of those employees are married to wit, you can't make a spouse vote the same way you do.

I think the approval margin shows just how much most city residents took their vote seriously and made what they felt was the best decision. For progress into the future, not passing on a debt and bad facilities to the next generation, and giving fire, police and city personnel better facilities to better protect and serve our great city!!!!

There is some thing that has botherd me from the very begining of this discussion that dosnt seem to be touched on here much.

How could providing the proper facilitys and equipment to the men and women that regularly put their LIVES on the line protecting the community be in any way be considered "coddling"????? Wouldnt Mr Fraiser scream the loudest when the emergency providers didnt get to him and his family soon enought to help them???? In my mind this fact alone negates his stance. I am curious if any one has brought tihs to his attention!?!

I believe Mr Fraiser knows deep in his heart that he is wrong about this but his pride will not let him let it go. This is probably why his "facts" are not based in reality.

He keeps ending his letters with "nuff said" but cant seem to keep himself from contiuing his commentary.

Mr Fraiser, perhaps you relly have said enough!

Peace

Karen

What great replies to old "sour grapes" nuff said!

I again call on him to run for city council since again he has "all the answers", on how and why the "for" vote for the new facility was in some way a stacked deck. I might suggest that perhaps he is not playing with a full deck, and that might be the problem.

Karen,

It may not have been on this opinion page but it's been stated many times before that Bill would be the first to complain about a delay in response time if it was HIS family or home that was in peril. I suspect that it would become yet another Opinion Article, bashing the City of McCook.

I'm a pretty good at judging character but I have to admit, Bill's done a good job at stumping me. I don't know what his final objective is really but if I had to make a hypothesis, he seems to want to slide expenses until he's no longer responsible to pay for them. Apparently, he doesn't really care whether our Community will continue to exist after he's gone and so my paradox.... He claims to have been a developer, most of the developers that I have met have an ego the size of Texas and what they develop will be their legacy. As I said before, he seems to want to just ride out the storm with as little turbulence as possible, and by his own efforts, he seems to add more plight to his plate. It's odd, I can't manage to find his angle.

I WILL say this though, if he put as much passion into advancement as he does to deterrence, he might have me on his side.

Bill dont be like Nancy Polosi in the congressional house and dream up stupid reasons you lost the vote with Mcoook futures vs you old buzzards that come back to McCook to die and want to contribute nothing to the McCook community and get the free ride. You lost your election because you are a taker and most folks even at your age in McCook are givers period and you are the minority thankgoodness. Nuff said you need to pick a new crusade like taking playgrounds/candy away from kids in the park or maybe crusade to inviting more of your deadbeats/takers from Denver to move to McCook to live off the rest of us.

Mr Fraiser,

This is by far the most disturbing letter you have written so far. As a wife of a city employee I would like you to know that I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions. In fact, my husband and I didn't even discuss the issue. I researched both sides of the issue and made my own informed decision-as I did with all of the other issues and candidates on the ballot. I happen to be well educated and perfectly capable of making the right decision, I'm sorry that you do not have that ability. It is well past time for you to drop this--the votes have been counted and you lost.

You know you can all set there and talk bad about Mr Fraiser and about how how smart you all are but the the theses of his letter is true. Passing this bond was not the will of the people and you all know it. But you won, so enjoy the moment. As sales tax receipt continue to go down and street and other repairs continue to go up we can all thank you and our great city council. Cant wait until they come back to us wanting more money. thanks

remington,

I will disagree with the thesis of Bill's piece. His inclination to minimalize the public's desire to move forward is mute. His statement is saying that anyone involved in any way shape or form with the City of McCook:

1. Automatically voted FOR the new facility

2. Shouldn't be considered part of the Cities voting public (because they are biased I suppose)

3. Are pro-modernization for only 40 employees.

If you or Bill were holding an office in the new City Facility, I would have voted yes. If there were only 15 employees in the new office, I would have voted yes. The thing that seems to be slipping past your grasp of recognition is the fact that building a new facility is a forward motion. Are the property taxes going to go up? You say they will by reasoning that (the money that will go into the new facility should have been used on the standard maintenance of the streets etc. If there isn't any money in the general funds to do that then the citizens of McCook will be asked for that money. ) I understand that reasoning. I understand those that say "Hey, the County will need us to pay for the new jail." Again, understood.

Firstly I must say that IF the County will need money for the new jail, then that may come in the way of property tax..... BUT, keep in mind, that is then the Property Tax for the entire County not just those that live in McCook and because it IS a County facility we're dealing with, that cost burden SHOULD include the entire county.

Secondly, if there is an increase in the taxes and its goes for a good cause which is progressive, then that is just the price to pay for staying in tune with the times. No one WANTS to pay more, but then I'm not too keen on packing up and moving to a larger city where the average price of a house is in the $250,000.00 (on the low side) range rather than $80,000.00 to $125,000.00 range as it is here in McCook. I have children that I would like to see stay in the area and be successful. It's a great community, safe, and though you might argue, it is quite affordable. I don't know you personally...... I don't know if you are 26 or 62, but if you have children, I would think you would want them to live in a community that's safe and offers the possibility of success. I assure you, send your children to any decent sized city and they will immediately be stripped of the safety element that we enjoy here daily. Instead of paying $375.00 a month for an apartment, they will be paying $700.00 a month. We have the opportunity to offer a progressive yet conditioned lifestyle right here in McCook and I'm not going to lie to you..... It may cost you, me and the others in the area a little bit more every month to maintain the life styles that we've become accustomed to, but isn't it worth it to know your children and grandchildren can safely play in the park?

I'm not being boastful over the new facility.... That is not a lavish money down the drain thing to keep 40 employees comfortable. It 's an ever continuing process to assure that our community continues to flourish and not fade away. If you are truly concerned about your property taxes, watch them drop when the price of your home falls from the average $80,000.00 to $125,000.00 range down to the $20,000.00 to $25,000.00 range because few people want to live in a community that has a part time City clerk that doubles as the Sheriff, a place where a run to the store means a 60 mile round trip.

I haven't felt compelled to comment on this matter since November 2nd as it really IS a mute point now, and all the convincing and fact corrections are over, but I did feel the need to let you know that this isn't about the comforts of 40 employees, with any luck it's about the comfort of 160 employees. 4 generations of new employees that the city has sitting in those offices because the City has continued to carry on rather than fade away. I won't be sitting in those offices, or using the council chambers and with any luck I won't be in the interrogations rooms, so you see, this is clearly not about me or the other voters that checked YES on the ballot, It's about cleaning up the mess that we were handed rather than pass it down to the next generation, God willing, those dedicated citizens will include my children. Your concerns however appear to be quite obvious.... "Don't use MY money." Which direction is the more valiant?

remington81 and nuff said should get together and go on a cruise...if you get my hunch. They just don't seem to appreciate any forward thinking or modernization. Both of them want to live in the past, letting things rot until they are literally falling down. Trouble is, it seems as if the current city facilities are beyond this point already and enough citizens in McCook realized it, addressed it and now it will be fixed. It is truly sad that we have troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea and all over the world fighting and dying right now to protect our freedoms and our right to vote. Only to let these two hypocrites complain about how the citizens of McCook voted! THE CITY EMPLOYEES ARE CITIZENS, WITH THE RIGHT TO VOTE! My guess is there were some employees and maybe even some spouses who either didn't vote or voted against the facility. THAT IS THEIR RIGHT! GET OVER IT! I'm a huge baseball fan. I love going to the Rockies games. I was hoping that they would make it to the Series this year. Well, guess what...they didn't. So, I didn't get my wish but I'm over it. I'm not pounding on their door harassing and whining about them not going. nuf said and remington81 simply need to find something else to complain about...maybe the cost of tea in China. NUF SAID!

Hey ochosinco, Are you saying that SW Nebraska is singled out in the "WE WON YOU LOST" thing or that SW Nebraska should be isolated from it? Seems to me that this is a common occurrence where-ever you go. Didn't China do that to the rest of the world in the last summer Olympics? Holy Cow, We've spread our tendencies to the other side of the world. Pretty soon there will be an "I Told You So" pandemic! What will we do? And to think.... It all started right here in Southwest Nebraska.

To be clear, I believe everyone has the right to their own opinion. I take issue with "Opinion" coming across as "Fact" All I've ever requested was accountability. If Bill and 81 say "I feel" or "I think" or even "I'm not certain of the numbers" I wouldn't attack that as it is an opinion. What agitates me is when numbers are thrown around in a factual manner as though they've been researched. I've repeatedly requested a list of those "40 Employees" that are the root of this entire ordeal and that simply can't be provided. Why I wonder. It was also stated by Bill that it would be cheaper to renovate the old Westward School. This was unfounded, un-researched, and again STATED several times. If it is an untruth and the public believes it then they DON'T have the right information to make a proper decision.

There are those that wish to sling mud but it should be understood that there was frustration on both sides of the fence. No it's not the right thing to do but welcome to the Wonderful World of Politics.

If Bill would like a civil debate, which one might think would be beneficial, then there were not 1, not 2 but 3 public meetings at such a time that he could bring his case to the public, yet he did not. Instead he campaigned via the use of those he managed to rally in support of his efforts. I saw several of his advocates at the council meetings and so far as I witnessed, not one of them were boo-ed off the floor, or escorted to the door, but were respected for bringing their opinions and questions to the council and public. Bill, by NOT attending these meetings, was not showing his true passion over the issue and by extension set himself up for the criticism that was bound to come at him when he chose to write his Bold and often times unsubstantiated comments.

I'm sure Bill would have been better received if he was willing to face those that he was himself accusing. Yes, it's never pleasant to see derogatory comments, but if they can be circumvented via the use of a civil process to begin with, perhaps the mudslinging would have been reduced.

I can agree with that, without losing sleep. The "unsubstantiated numbers (in my opinion" have never been satisfactorily substantiated though so far as I have seen.

I am a strong conservitive and I see this vote as a good choice by McCook residents. The City has a good plan to pay for the project and will leave future generations a better city faciliy.

ochosinco,

You asked if the future of McCook hinged on the building of the new facility. To respond to that, I would have to say NO. The future of McCook hinges on the continued updating of the facilities, infrastructure, and other public works, which has been my point not only in my comments on this page but on others as well. I insist in fact that we must move forward together as a team and the construction of the ERC & Administration building is merely the beginning in a progressive process that is both necessary as well as long overdue.

I guess I couldn't sleep tonight without voicing that after all.

When it comes to a vote of the public (whether the public consists of city employees or not) a 1 vote margin IS a mandate. That's how this whole democracy thing works.

Just a quick comment for ochosinco. You ask, "Sometimes it is really not clear who is the most disgusting, the sore losers or the sore winners?" For the answer just simply check to see who started this whole blog by writing the letter to the editor after the good people in McCook passed the bond issue. Looks to me like nuf said is the sore loser.

Yeah, what was the council thinking putting this to a vote of the people and then honoring the results of that vote? What kind of democracy is that where people get to have a voice on what they do or don't want and the majority decides the outcome? Oh yeah, that's the democracy started by the founding fathers. I certainly don't think they got it wrong when they founded the country this way.

McCook1 I hate to tell you this but we do not live in a democracy. Go back to school and study.

Were all the votes casted by validated, eligible voters?

Were the votes counted by some type of certified agent?

Were the voting results posted as "Official"?

remington..... I hate to tell YOU.... that's how it works.... just because the vote came out in favor "for" rather than "against" regardless by the margin, its tells of the public's desire.

First the City was accused of "Pushing" this ERC Facility through, but it went to vote.... Then it was voted in..... And now it's an unfair process because there are those that would be directly affected by it, voting for it.

Do the presidential candidates get to cast THEIR vote for president? (the answer is yes) does THAT stack the deck for him? Heck he even has a wife and often times children. Sometimes he's from a town, and that town supports him. There are people that work their tails off campaigning for him... they get to vote. What point is being made here about the "stacked deck"? If a group of people directly involved with the item that is being voted on, votes a specific direction, then the deck is stacked? I voted for on the NRD, I knew little about it and probably made a pretty uninformed decision.... are those the type of votes that are fair, the uninformed ones? Or are those that know a little something about the issue the stronger voter in this case?

As far as the City Leaders patting themselves on the back.... I have yet to see anyone on the City Council do any bragging over the issue. The City Manager was pleased to announce that the bond rate was lower than expected, which is a positive thing. As a matter of fact, I would say that the City has been instructed to keep an unemotional façade in regard to the passed facility judging by my conversations with several "unemotional" members of the back patting bunch.

Ochosinco:

Where have you seen the back patting? You said you were capable of making that decision, so I'm curious.... Has there been something in the paper or on the radio that displayed the City Leaders in such a way that you claim they are sore winners? Or is this another case of unsubstantiated facts put before the public?

eddy, what are you trying to say there exactly? Who is the "Typical Strong conservative"?

and how are "they" (who are they?) coming up short? Are you talking in your sleep or what?