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Sunday, Nov. 23, 2014

The Real Valley Forge

Posted Monday, November 14, 2011, at 2:58 PM

(Photo)
I heard that some of the children of Liberalism in the Occupy crowd were calling their protests a "Valley Forge moment". Further evidence of the real fruits of our public education system. I would love to dive into a rant here, instead, I will use the words of Henry Armitt Brown, in his oratory regarding Valley Forge, delivered June 19th 1878.

Let his words be a stinking rebuke.

"The struggle now had become one of endurance, and while liberty and independence seemed as far off as ever, men began to appreciate the tremendous cost at which they were to be purchased."

"The wind is cold and piercing on the old Gulf Road, and the snow-flakes have begun to fall. Who is that toils up yonder hill, his footsteps stained with blood? His bare feet peep through his worn out shoes, his legs nearly naked from the tattered remains of an only pair of stockings, his breeches not enough to cover his nakedness, his shirt hanging in strings, his hair dishevelled, his face was thin, his look hungry, his whole appearance that of a man forsaken and neglected."

"On his shoulder he carries a rusty gun, and the hand that grasps the stock is blue with cold. His comrade is no better off, nor he who follows, for both a barefoot, and the ruts of the rough country road are deep and frozen hard. A fourth comes into view, and still another. A dozen are in sight. Twenty have reached the ridge and there are more to come."

"Are these soldiers that huddle together and bow their heads as they face he biting wind?"

"...Cold shall share their habitations and Hunger enter in and be their constant guest; Disease shall infest their huts by day and Famine stand guard with them through the night; Frost shall lock their camp with icy fetters and the snows cover it as with a garment; the storms of winter shall be pitiless, - but all in vain. Danger shall not frighten nor temptation have power to seduce them. Doubt shall not shake their love of country nor suffering overcome their fortitude. The power of evil shall not prevail against them, for they are the Continental Army, and these are the hills of Valley Forge!"

"Without a organized quartermaster's department the men could not be clothed and fed. At first mismanaged, this department became neglected. The warnings of Washington were disregarded, his appeals in vain. The troops began to want clothing soon after Brandy wine. By November it was evident that they must keep the field without blankets, overcoats, or tents. At Whitemarsh, they lay, half clad, on frozen ground. By the middle of December they were in want of the necessaries of life."

"Theirs was a perfect sacrifice, and the debt you owe them you can never pay. What would they say if here today? Your lines have fallen in a happier time. The boundaries of your Union stretch from sea to sea. You enjoy all the blessings which Providence can bestow, - a peace we never knew, a wealth we never hoped for, a power of which we never dreamed. We laid the foundations of your happiness in a time of trouble, in days of sorrow and perplexity, of doubt, distress, and danger, of cold and hunger, of suffering and want."

"We built it up by virtue, by courage, by self sacrifice, by unfailing patriotism, by unceasing vigilance. By those things alone did we win your liberties."

____

Mr. Brown's oratory is long and in depth, as it should be about Valley Forge. If you'd like to see an interesting version of this oratory and comments, here is a link:

http://www.archive.org/stream/orationatv...

So my friends, do you think any of these occupy punks and punkettes have a freakin' clue as to the real Valley Forge?


Comments
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[Show in chronological order instead]

I think Time was referring to Egypt and Libya.

-- Posted by bberry on Mon, Dec 19, 2011, at 11:24 AM

Yet another shining example of America's finest.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick...

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Dec 14, 2011, at 8:44 PM

A glimpse at Time's persons of the year.

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/12/14/occup...

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Dec 14, 2011, at 6:21 PM

SWNebr,

Yes, you certainly mistyped. You mistyped to begin with and then you clearly put a large amount of thought into correcting yourself by doing so again.

You have also clearly misread what I have typed. I will allow you more time yet but after 3 days already, I reserve my doubts.

So while you can question my use of slurs, perhaps you should spend more time rereading and thinking about what you are posting.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 30, 2011, at 12:21 AM

bberry,

Yep I mistyped, I guess you might think that makes your use of slurs acceptable.

You've still never told me what slurs I find acceptable have you thought of any yet?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 9:26 PM

Thanks carl,

But I see I made a mistake; I wrote: "A poor person stands to lose a lot more than a rich person, and therefore has a greater responsibility of ensuring the longevity of the nation."

But what I meant was...A rich person stands to lose a lot more than a poor person, and therefore a rich person has a greater responsibility in ensuring the longevity of the nation.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Tue, Nov 29, 2011, at 2:04 PM

Bene your last post was excellent. Most people fail to realize this. But, as I have noticed most are unwilling to change their concepts.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 4:12 PM

SWNebr,

So your last comment to me meant to read, "Here is some more accurate information for your defense of slurs." from "Here is some more accurate information for defense of the use of slurs."?

I'll give you some more time to think about this.

Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

-- Posted by bberry on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 2:27 PM

bberry,

What slurs are you talking about? Which ones have I used?

And you are correct, I was trying to get you to stop using slurs in my post I ommitted a word. It should have read "your defense of slurs"

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 1:07 PM

You will need Excel to open the IRS database of statistics.

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 12:35 AM

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/...

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Sat, Nov 26, 2011, at 12:26 AM

Someones been copy & pasting from www.99ideas.com.

-- Posted by Keda46 on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 10:14 PM

Here is a handy link to keep in your favorites. It has all historical tax rates from 1913-2011 - all in one listing.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/sho...

-- Posted by Geezer on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 6:53 PM

I disagree with you Wallis. And nothing I wrote supported your point. The fact is, everyone pays taxes. This is what the right wing folks miss. Tangentially, we must ask who stands to lose the most if our systems were to fail. A poor person stands to lose a lot more than a rich person, and therefore has a greater responsibility of ensuring the longevity of the nation.

Here is a nice summary of everything I have argued before that proves your point wildly innaccurate, Wallis.

"State income taxes range from nothing up to 8% in some states. Here in Colorado, for example, we have a flat tax rate of 4.63%. These taxes are paid by more of the poor than federal income taxes, because there are fewer deductions available and they they start at lower income levels.

Property taxes are paid by all working poor as well. Even those who rent are paying the true cost of property taxes. This is clear once you understand the principle that in business all costs have to be passed on to the consumer. If taxes were doubled on property, obviously landlords would not decide to eat the loss - they pass the cost on.

The same is true of taxes on all imported goods. Those costs are passed on in the pricing, and so are paid by all consumers. Of course, this is a larger percentage of income for those who must spend a larger percentage of their income on basic goods.

By the way, the costs of corporate income taxes are also passed on in the products and services produced. If taxes on profits were paid only as owners received those profits as income, prices would likely be lower, so we pay those taxes indirectly as consumers. That's a complicated subject to be covered at another time (yes it suggests that getting rid of corporate taxes might benefit the poor).

Now, let me clarify this a bit more, because I am sure that some will argue that renters don't pay property taxes or the other half of that social security tax, or anything that I designate as "indirect." But imagine for a moment if businesses paid the total social security and income tax burden that we now pay. Would we really say that we pay no taxes? It would be technically true that no individual person paid, but of course wages would be adjusted downward to compensate for the new taxes on business.

Let me simplify this further. If in our business we could hire an employee and boost our revenue by $40,000 annually, we could pay $35,000 in total employee costs (assuming we want at least $5,000 additional profit for the trouble). If we were made to pay no other costs, we could pay the whole $35,000 to the employee. But what if we had to pay $15,000 in various taxes? Then we could only offer $20,000 in wages. So who's really paying those taxes? Clearly the employee.

Only the efforts of real people produce the wealth that is then taken as taxes, so we have to look beyond the labels and forms to see whose efforts are really paying what. You can hide the true cost to people in the various ways you arrange things, but the working poor do pay taxes directly and indirectly. Most people work by the way. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the percentage of Americans on welfare is about 2%."

Slackers are not the problem. A lack of production, access to good education, and shipping jobs overseas is the problem.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 11:10 AM

You are correct Ben. In Ne you pay 6.8% State tax rate if you make over $27,500. Add the progressive Federal tax rate and you are quickly at 41%. If you own your own home throw in property tax and WOW you get to half of every dollar fast.

How does that encourage people to try harder? It doesn't. You make my point almost every time you post about why these slackers slack. The OWS people have given up trying and have there hands out wanting something for nothing. Why do they want something nothing? Because they are tired of the government taking most of it from them when they earn it.

Lower taxes reward effort. Rewarded effort leads to more effort.

Wallis Marsh

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 9:34 AM

Thanks Brian

To reach that 73% involves getting into what is considered the middle class tax brackets. The median income taxpayer in 2009 was a little less than $33,000 with an average AGI of under $15,300.

Fifty percent of our countries taxpayers fell into this category.

If you look at just the difference between the middle class tax brackets and the upper income tax brackets it becomes clear that the middle class pays the bulk of our counties tax burdens.

For example the middle class 15% tax bracket payed more in taxes than the top two income brackets and capital gains combined together.

http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johns...

-- Posted by Geezer on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 9:34 AM

I wonder what it looks like when you figure state & local taxes into what everyone pays...

Once you have made that calculation, I would be interested to learn what happens when you take taxes paid as a portion of income for each tax bracket.

I suspect, and I am just guessing here, that there is more than one way to define what is fair.

Happy Thanksgiving.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 8:40 AM

Here is a link with numbers pretty close to what Boomer62 brought up Geezer... http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-i...

-- Posted by Brian Hoag on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 7:54 AM

Boomer

Would you please post a link to your tax percentage data?

Thanks

-- Posted by Geezer on Fri, Nov 25, 2011, at 7:24 AM

We're doomed as a nation. It's just a matter of time--not more than 10 years.

Our government spends over a trillion bucks each year more than its revenues. And the Super Committee can't cut out $1.2 trillion of the deficit OVER 10 YEARS!

Here's the reason. Every time you cut anything (I don't care what it is) you lose votes. Every time you raise taxes you lose votes. Every politician's bottom line is votes.

The electorate wants a Free Lunch. The Gimme Voters have taken control--that was obvious with the election of Barrack Obama.

The top 10% of the individuals by income pay 73% of the income tax in this country. The bottom 90% pay only 27%. There just HAS to be a way to make the top 10% pay for it ALL! (it should be possible, theoretically).

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tytler 1748-1813 [Tytler describes the life cycle of civilization as from Bondage to Spiritual Faith to Great Courage to Liberty to Abundance to Selfishness to Complacency to Apathy to Dependency and back into Bondage.]

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:34 PM

east is east and west is west; never the twain shall meet. same goes for liberals and conservatives. thus, the stalemate in which we find ourselves. AND- - - - - - also, my wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving for ALL.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 11:54 AM

Happy Thanksgiving All

It's starting to smell pretty good around the house now. Pie crust cookies just came out of the oven and the mince meat pie is ready for putting in the oven.

Guess I better get busy and get some spuds peeled and some biscuits mixed up.

-- Posted by Geezer on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 11:45 AM

very good point Benevolus.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:52 AM

Wasn't that from 2008? Gotta go way back to dig up a campaign trail gaff?

Weird.

Clearly he was just tired from the frenetic schedule of campaigning. He later said that he meant 47 and it just came out wrong.

Anyway, I would be surprised if liberals cares much about the slip up. Obama is extremely intelligent, you won't find any reasonable person who denies that...whether or not his hyper-intelligence has translated into good policies is another story.

Happy Thanksgiving.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:44 AM

occasional flubs or mistakes can happen and will happen be it a dem, rep, or tea party member. That is human nature. But when it happens almost everytime you speak it tends to drift from being a just a mistake. Palin and Bachmann continue to show their lack of...um...well...fill in the blank (wouldn't want to take the chance of using a word that can be taken out of context)anytime they speak. Really isn't my fault that the teaparty chose to make Palin the face of their movement or Bachmann for a presidential canidate. When groups pick the people they want to represent them, those that are representing them tend to be the ones that people judge the group for, good or bad.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:38 AM

I forgot to add about Palin. She once gave an interview saying she would not hunt an animal for its fur yet in the background there was a bearskin rug.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:35 AM

Yeah I heard about that one doodle. You can only characterize it as idiocy. However it falls along the lines of Perry not remember the third federal department he was going to axe. Or Cain stumbling over the Libya issue. Or him telling his Tea Party friends he was Koch brothers' brother from another mother. It doesn't appear any of the current candidates are exempt from stupidity.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:31 AM

not trying to defend Bachmann or Palin (but it will be taken that way), but how does the liberal crowd characterize Candidate Obama's comment about campaigning in all 57 states; or President Obama's use of the term "corps man"?

-- Posted by doodle bug on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 10:22 AM

If all else fails, at least we know we can join the Tea Party.

As far as using it in a derogatory manner, why do you find it not acceptable but you do any other derogatory remarks made on this website?

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:48 AM

Wouldn't that be against the use of slurs?

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:40 AM

carlsonl and bberry,

Here is some more accurate information for defense of the use of slurs.

http://www.r-word.org/

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:37 AM

Where did I resort back to name calling? Or did you just not have an answer about the deficit committee?

Someone with a Spanish origin is most likely Spanish. One with African origin is African. However, being a decendant of someone from that geographical location does not mean you automatically are from the same location.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:29 AM

also I didn't call anyone a name I just simply defined a political party.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:28 AM

are the spanish and africans mentally challenged??

Also, wouldn't they just be americans. If not I would probably call them illegals.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:26 AM

Yes I meant colonel. Sorry about that. However, I see rather than to engage the dialogue, the two of you resoted back to childish name calling. Perhaps the two of you can go to your local playground and start an arguement with a 5 year old.

Maybe while there, the two of you can meet a person with Down's Syndrome. I'm sure they and their parents will be impressed with your definition of them. How about a person from a Spanish background, what will you label them? What about a person of African origin? Bet the two of you have some pretty neat descriptions there.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 8:56 AM

Also bberry I think CPB wants me to jump in a time machine and join the "colonial" army. Then I would know all about modern day warfare.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 8:02 AM

bberry I think you did. Nobody from the tearetardation party could possibly be to blame.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 7:33 AM

"If you had Colonial or higher"

You mean colonel?

Also remember, the Democrats still control the Senate and the Presidency, so it's difficult to assign blame to the Senate Republicans for failing.

Huh? The deficit committee was made up of 3 people of each party from both the House and the Senate. But I may have misunderstood your point.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 7:19 AM

Nope not a military leader. But I do see where the most success happens, and that is usually when we use small groups and drones. Most of our men were over there acting more as policemen then anything. I also have two half brothers, an uncle, and 4 cousins that served over there and that I have talked to about what they saw and what they were asked to do. If that helps validate my point any.

Sorry if it seemed I implied that it was all the repubs fault. I was trying to make the point that the repubs are already trying to figure out a way to get out of defense cuts. Also, it isn't a failure of the president. That isn't his job that is congresses job.

As far as tard i just went to dictionary.com

I just looked again and it says slang dictionary under it (although tard is a common replacement for retard). So you are right about that. But tearedardation or tearetard just doesn't roll of the tongue and in hindsight it probably isn't necessary to refer to them other then tea party members.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:25 PM

carlsonl,

What english dictionary? None I have looked up lists "tard". Urban Dictionary does, and it's listed as a derogatory slang. There are standards on these blogs. Do we need to refresh your memory?

The thing is carlsonl, I don't see you as a military leader. The ones we have in place are constantly monitoring the worlds situation. Each threat is different, each requires different levels of manpower, technology, and weaponry. If you had Colonial or higher, you might have some credibility.

Also remember, the Democrats still control the Senate and the Presidency, so it's difficult to assign blame to the Senate Republicans for failing.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:03 PM

Either way thanks for conversation, I'm off of here for the evening. You all have a good Thanksgiving.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:01 PM

Guess Ill have to read more into that Carlson. Interesting nonetheless. I did read where they were considering extending some of the tax cuts before the trigger ocurred. If not, it stated those making 50,000 or better could pay at least an extra 1,000 in taxes.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:56 PM

Bberry the repubs are already working on a way to get out of their punishment for not getting the deal done. The way it is set up they have a year to do it. So I don't see the auto cuts ever actually happening. Heck I read reports that repubs were working on ways to change it days before the deline hit. If I was Obama I would veto any legislation that attempted to circumvent the auto cuts and let them happen. In doing so he would finally put the boot up congresses ass to get something done together that they all need.

For some reason people got the idea that it is the presidents job to set up budgets and legislation. Not really sure why.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:53 PM

The thing is CPB we could cut our defense budget in half and still have the best defense in the world. Alot of people like to say well china has 2 million troops. Do you realize 99% of that is infantry. We wouldn't have to send a troop into china to take care of that. That is another thing if we are going to sink the kind of money we do into defense we don't need to send 100k troops overseas. Most of the missions in todays style of warfare could be fought with drones and small tactical units.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:48 PM

and the article writer calling people involved with OWS punks and punkets is any better? Before you get all high and mighty about yourself understand the context of my point. Anytime the words tard retard and retardation gets used people blow it completely out of context. As far as my use of the word in reference to tea party members I think it is warranted. Look at some of the leaders/faces of the tea party movement. Bachmann and Palin are so limited in intellectual understanding and awareness of what is going on in this country that they fit the definition of retardation, which leads to Teatard. I am sorry if you are so narrow minded that when you hear the word you automatically assume it is comparing whatever to a mentally challenged person. In no way does the perversion of the english language and the context people take words in now make me a bigot.

The fact that you associate the word tard with a mentally challenged person only shows your lack of compasion and politically correctiveness towards the challenged.

So next time before assuming someone comments are dehumanizing use your brain and think.

Also my definition was taken directly from an english dictionary and not some slang website.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:43 PM

CPB, do you think the automatic reduction trigger set off by the deficit committee failure will leave us with a hollow defense as they say?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:33 PM

Most of us just call it the dictionary. It's ok if you do not understand.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:31 PM

For the money, we have the best national defense in the world. That why the American population can go about their day and not be constantly fearful of an attack. The borders fall within the defense network, and we are weak there. At stake is a potentially huge voting block. This lies at the intersection of defense and justice.

Yes, I agree totally with the TEA Party, and to a great extent the OWS. Nobody is to big to fail and the CEO's should be brought to justice. Sadly, they are huge campaign contributors. Here, justice would have prevented this.

All of this was preventable, but we as a people live our lives looking in a mirror. All we see is us, and how we can live off the backs of others. And we, sadly vote that way.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:31 PM

I am impressed Carlsonl! You can define slurs! Feel free to define some racial epithets or maybe some of bigdawgs deameaning terms for the GLBT community. I am glad to see that you have a copy of the bigot's dictionary and are putting it to good use. You are a classy individual. I am sure that you and Bberry are a match. Dehumanization is alive and well on the McCook Gazette blog.

-- Posted by Sir Didymus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:26 PM

Yes and on top of that, billions were mismanaged. And while I forget the amount, it was substantial enough to warrant defense spending reduction(s).

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:17 PM

This wouldn't be a bad thing if we played by the old rules. Take and keep or atleast get our money back out of it. *Sarcasm

Honestly though I do think we need to charge and atleast recover the cost for the use of our defense.

Kinda wierd how we take out a loan to defend other nations.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:09 PM

Defense is one of the faults of Romney, he wants to move defense spending to 4% of GDP. Then he wants to increase our military operations globally. There was no lesson learned from Bush Jr.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 10:00 PM

CPB I agree with some of your points. I don't agree with the defense. Do you actually look at what we spend and what we have for defense. It is crazy. The funny thing is even after we spend all that money we can't protect our borders but we sure as heck can get involved in everyone elses disputes.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:49 PM

Ah we did didn't we. It is probably a safe bet. China only holds around 10% of our debt, whereas we make up 4x the cost in the difference between their imports and exports. It is likely if they did we'd buy back our own debt by printing money and although it'd inflate the dollar more, it would make our costs more competitive in the global market and the economy would most likely correct before Chinas who imports a lot of food items from the U.S.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:47 PM

bberry you and I talked about this the other day and I believe we agree on it. Correct me if I state something wrong.

Right now it is a game of chicken. If we say we are going to up the tariff's if they don't correct the value of the yuan they have the bond dump threat. We also have the threat if they dump our bonds we close out borders to their products basically killing their economy. I my opinion we have a two one lead in this aspect. If we actually grew a backbone and demaned the correction I think China would be forced to do it. If they follow through on the bond dump. I think their economic downturn would be substatial and long. We would also see a dip but I believe this would be short term as the manufacturing would come back here or just move to India.

In the grand scheme forcing china into dumping the bonds and creating a small downturn for us or correcting the value of the yuan, would be well worth either of the eventual outcomes.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:42 PM

I'm not sure who you're referring to CPB, but if it's me, then yes. yes I did. Do I get a gold star?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:38 PM

You were able to gather all that from my post. Not sure how. Amazing!

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:35 PM

I agree with most of this. Our economy both private and public are based off of Capitalism. How well the private does also coincides with how well the public does.

So in regards to the protests, which do you believe. Do you believe fault lies within the government and overtaxing while giving bailouts? Or do you believe it is the fault of corporations mismanaging funds while receiving bailouts and then continuing mismanagement of these funds? For example Freddie Mac. I believe they just asked for more money from Uncle Sam.

As far as defense, we spend more than any other nation in the world. With China in 2nd we still spend 2 - 3x of their defense budget. You don't think we could reduce funding for this?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:35 PM

As far as the article pertains I find it interesting.

You have this dislike of the comparison of valley forge to the OWS movement. I find it offensive that the tea party refers to themselves as the tea party in association to the actual tea party. You also are under the assumption that they are all looking for handouts and too lazy to work. You get upset when they speak up during a bachmann speach, but did they not do the same to the president. So far they haven't interrupted town hall meetings (ring a bell tea partiers?).

I read a joke the other day and at first got a chuckle out of it. But, the more I think about it the more I start thinking that there is a certain truth to it.

The joke as follows.

A conversation between a OWS protestor and their therapist.

Therapist: What seems to be bothering you.

Protester: The older generations:

T: Why?

P: I was told growing up that if I didn't want to flip burgers that I need to work hard, get good grades and graduate college.

T: And?

P Now that I have graduated college and there are no jobs and I have racked up enormous debt getting the education, they call me lazy and entitled because I don't wanna flip burgers.

T: Touche

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:29 PM

My views, our economic system is a hybrid system. On one side, you have the private sector. This sector relies on pure capitalism. Capitalists full filling a need as society demands. Those who are innovative, profit from it. Those who who profit, demands more goods and service, and the cycle continues. Basis trickle down.

The other side of our economic system is the public sector. It is by nature, socialistic. The private sector pays taxes into the public for the "common good for all people". This includes national defense, national infrastructure, and justice. A strong national defense insures commerce occurs unhindered. A well designed national infrastructure keeps commerce flowing freely. Justice insures commerce is fair. All these, if kept pure, especially justice, would have prevented much of our economic slow downs we are experiencing now. If we wish to divide "common good for all sub-groups", shouldn't that be within the states rights?

The political battle we have today is seeing who will wield the most power. The private sector asking for lower taxes, for more capital, to keep capitalism alive. Or the public, demanding more taxes to pay for more social benefits. We see our own states duplicating the federal governments programs, thus adding to the private sectors financial stress. And very sadly, at the cost of defense, infrastructure, and justice.

I don't see anything wrong in demanding politicians follow my political belief system. I vote for those who do. Sadly, I am in the minority.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:24 PM

It is interesting you mention this Carlson. "Charge a national tax on any products manufactured by someone who pays less then our minimum wage."

How do you feel about our circumstance with China and keeping their Yuan artificially low? Should we still impose an import tarriff on their Tires, Steel, Clothing, etc and risk them dumping our treasury bonds?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:21 PM

SO CPB I have shared mine. Care to share yours?

I think I have an idea of where you stand on things but would like to give you the opportunity to answer for yourself.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:16 PM

I also think one of the things Carlson is getting at is that they tend to refuse to close tax loopholes for corporations leaving funds overseas citing it would be raising taxes.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:12 PM

I believe when the tea party movement first started they had some great ideas. But the more they let corperate america (koch brothers among others) finance their party the platform changed. The things they were against they started to become. They have become puppets themselves. As far as shipping jobs overseas.

1. I didn't state that they did.

2. Their current direction indicates that they are not against it.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:10 PM

That doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't you favor a candidate more if they aligned with your ideals more than one of the opposite party who did not?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:09 PM

carlsonl,

Where is it stated TEA party favors shipping jobs overseas. Everything I had read indicates they want more jobs kept here. Also, the TEA party does not favor Republican candidates, more so than Democrat candidates, it just so happens Republican candidates think along the lines of the TEA party.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:57 PM

What are your views CPB?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:53 PM

Tea Party is more focused along Libertarian ideals such as reducing government and any spending associated with it. They want to reform back to the basic consitution. They also generally want to reform taxes into a flat or fair tax system which would shift tax burdens from the wealthy to the middle class. They want to downsize the EPA and focus on a balanced budget. The balanced budget being one of the few things I do agree with.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:50 PM

LOL CPB thats part of the point. Both sides have good things to offer. But both fail to understand neither of them have the full answer. With the mess we are in we need to pull the good ideas from both sides. Also I do not believe the tea party would agree with my ideas on foreign trade. Repubs/teaparty tend to favor a system that rewards shipping jobs overseas to help the bottom line.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:43 PM

Very good carlsonl, very impressive indeed. Other than your insistance on raising taxes, where do you differ from the Tea Party?

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:36 PM

Ah another big one. Slipped my mind for a bit.

If person or family is on any government assistance (welfare, foodstamps, unemployment)

Require 1 hour of local work per $15 they get.

Examples: Trash clean up, Public park cleaning, Mowing, weed pulling, shelter work, painting, ect.

Basically anything that needs done to local, state, or federal areas.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:34 PM

Well I suppose if you hadn't been following the conversation there wouldnt be.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:34 PM

bberry,

Other than childish name calling, I don't see much there.

Purpose of The Bill of Rights?

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:31 PM

Where do I stand.

Cut defense budget to 1/3 and use that to secure borders.

Repeal Bush tax cuts.

Close corporate tax loopholes.

Up corporate taxes to post WW2 levels.

Give 10% tax break to companies that manufacture and put there products together in the US.

Reform Wall St. (along with a tax increase)

Privatize Social Security.

Privatize the Postal Service.

Cut all illegal benefits.

Up tariffs on foreign goods to the same levels ours are tariffed.

Charge a national tax on any products manufactured by someone who pays less then our minimum wage.

Make lobbyist illegal.

Limit campaign contributions to 2k per individule 10k per group/corporation.

Term limits for congress.

Turn education over to states.

Teachers get performance raises.

Give the ability to fire teachers back and do away with tenure BS.

Those are a few of the big things

Have tons more but you get the point.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:27 PM

Other than the use of the term Teatard and SWNebr's disdain for it, you can read my stance in the rest of the comments.

It generally helps to do so before commenting though.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:19 PM

Again, other than childish name calling where do you stand?

Role of government? For example.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:18 PM

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=6...

I find this funny. Jimmy Fallons band played Lyin' A-- B---H as Bachmann came out. Problem is that it is accurate for any politician.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:16 PM

So, other than childish name calling, where do you stand?

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:13 PM

Both parties have become to narrow visioned to accomplish anything. What this country needs more then anything is a nice system flush from national down to state levels. We need to start over. Where is that easy button?

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:13 PM

excuse me I am an independent I think both repubs/teatards and dems/leftist/liberal are both idiots.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:10 PM

What argument?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:02 PM

As you can see, the leftist/liberal has lost the argument. The childish name calling has begun.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:55 PM

Well you still could if you don't mind the SWNebr being disappointed with you. Somehow, I think I'll still manage to sleep at night.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:51 PM

good point. I guess I will call them "tea-limitation in intellectual understanding and awareness" from now on. This will keep people from thinking I actually group these people with the mentally challenged folks.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:47 PM

Well Carlson, it looks worse for me if they assume I meant mentally handicapped, instead of lack of intelligence (usually offensive slang). But it didn't concern me enough to really justify it to SWNebr, because that's really all he/she has to go on. So for arguments sake, I left it alone. I thought about posting the definition but eh, why bother?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:32 PM

Who knows maybe sheep are offended by it.

as far as teatard

tard definition

n.

a person who behaves as if retarded.

re,tard,ed /rɪˈt┿rdɪd/ Show Spelled[ri-tahr-did] adjective

1. characterized by retardation: a retarded child.

re,tar,da,tion /ˌrit┿rˈdeɪʃən/ Show Spelled[ree-tahr-dey-shuhn] Show IPA

noun

1.the act of retarding or state of being retarded.

2.something that retards; hindrance.

3.slowness or limitation in intellectual understanding and awareness, emotional development, academic progress, etc.

4.Music. a form of suspension that is resolved upward.

So now that we have got to the bottom of teatard.

I believe the nickname of teatard fits someone that belongs to the tea party. Specifically this part (slowness or limitation in intellectual understanding and awareness).

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:27 PM

SWNebr,

If you were disappointed why continue to ask? There really was no justification for me using Teatard, I just didn't care about your opinion.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:23 PM

bberry,

I'm disappointed you are spending so much effort trying to defend or excuse your slur. Is sheep a slur used against people with cognitive disabilities? I think you are as hypocritical as the conservatives you mock.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 6:50 PM

In other news...conservatives in Iowa are conspiring to ruin Romney's chances. Romney of course is the only candidate that is even remotely capable of beating Obama.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/politics/s...

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 6:25 PM

That match-up doesn't favor Palin very well.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 6:08 PM

Palin vs Hilary 2016. Mark my words. The myans were just off by 4 years.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 5:45 PM

Thanks Ben, I appreciated the chuckle.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 5:36 PM

I for one am more than ready for the Tea Party's libertarian philosophies to come true here in America. I mean just look at this video, it captures everything right and true about the reduction of government...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwj...

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 5:29 PM

It doesn't really matter either way bberry. In the end the government will skew us all. Just the tea baggers give you something to chew on while getting skewed.

-- Posted by carlsonl on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 4:31 PM

SWNebr,

If you consider OWSheep a slur also then I used them for both groups. It doesn't mean it is more acceptable, it is simply pointing out their hipocrisy.

As far as skewed political views, I imagine you can argue this to a degree because no one thinks someone elses views aren't skewed nor would I imagine someone else thinks their own views are.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 4:19 PM

Everyone has skewed political views.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:53 PM

bberry,

That's nice. Why do you think using slurs directed at one group is ok but not at others?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:50 PM

The list would certainly be more effective if it wasn't so fully peppered with inaccuracies, lies, half-truths, opinion pieces, blogger commentary, etc.

I guess Keda46 is like OWS protestors in that he has a high tolerance for ridiculous amounts of garbage.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:50 PM

SWNebr,

No one is beneath me, but sometimes they do have skewed political views.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:45 PM

bberry,

Do you consider Tea partiers beneath you because of thier views and actions?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:41 PM

SWNebr,

They were aimed at the Tea Party, but we'll see things your way and consider them the same.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:37 PM

I wondered about this Ben, but figured intelligence would have trumped this by simply posting a few of the links.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:35 PM

bberry,

I'm curious, does Tea Party people's behavior excuse your behavior?

Racial and gay slurs are not ok, but slurs aimed at people with cognitive disabilities are ok?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:32 PM

It took no time bberry, Keda46 cut and pasted it from biggoverment.com of some other blog full of dung beetles.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:24 PM

Keda46,

Of the first 20 of these accusations I found 10 to be either fake, unsubstantiated, or purposefully misleading. The integrity of the entire list is brought into question. As is your integrity for not fact-checking your regurgitation.

Fake Stories:

New York: 10/25/2011 -- Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape

New York: 10/15/2011 -- Harassing Police with Accusations of Phony Injuries

Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 -- Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation

10/15/2011 -- American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street's 'Courage,' Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight 'Judeo-Capitalist Banksters'

Unsubstantiated Stories:

10/12/2011 -- Iran Supports 'Occupy Wall Street'

Phoenix: 10/28/2011 -- Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, "When Should You Shoot a Cop?"

New York: 10/9/2011 -- 'Occupy Wallstreet' Protesters Steal from Local Businesses

Purposefully Misleading Stories:

New York: 10/11/2011 -- "You Can Have Sex with Animals."

NY: 10/10/2011 -- 'Increasingly Debauched': Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street?

Seattle: 10/18/2011 -- Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:23 PM

How long did that take you?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 3:01 PM

NY: 10/1/2011 -- Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge

Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 -- Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation

Phoenix: 10/28/2011 -- Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, "When Should You Shoot a Cop?"

NY: 10/18/2011 -- Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters

NY: 10/9/2011 -- Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR

NY: 10/7/2011 -- Occupiers Rush Police ... More

Cleveland: 10/18/2011 -- 'Occupy Cleveland' Protester Alleges She Was Raped

NY: 10/10/2011 -- 'Increasingly Debauched': Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street?

Seattle: 10/18/2011 -- Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested

10/12/2011 -- Iran Supports 'Occupy Wall Street'

Portland: 10/16/2011 --#OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead

Portland: 10/15/2011 -- #OccupyPortland Protesters Sing "F*** The USA"

Chicago: 10/17/2011 -- COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago

10/15/2011 -- American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street's 'Courage,' Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight 'Judeo-Capitalist Banksters'

Boston: 10/14/2011 -- Coast Guard member spit on near Occupy Boston tents

Boston: 10/11/2011 -- Boston Police Arrest Over 100 from Occupy Boston

New York: 10/11/2011 -- "You Can Have Sex with Animals."

New York: 10/15/2011 -- Harassing Police with Accusations of Phony Injuries

New York: 10/9/2011 -- 'Occupy Wallstreet' Protesters Steal from Local Businesses

New York: 10/25/2011 -- Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape

Baltimore: 10/18/2011 -- #OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims from Contacting Police

Portland: 10/27/2011 -- Occupy Portland's Attempt At Wealth Redistribution Ends In Theft

Los Angeles: 10/14/2011 -- Anti-Semitic Protester at Occupy Wall Street

10/27/2011 -- A Death Threat From an Occupy Wall Street Protester

10/27/2011 -- Anti-Semitic Tweet From Occupier or Sympathizer

Boston: 10/20/2011 -- Occupy Boston Doesn't Want Police Involved in Rape

New York: 10/5/2011: Anti-Semitic Occupier Screams About Jews, Israel

New York: 10/4/2011 -- Occupier Taunts Jewish Man

Boston: 10/2011 -- Occupiers Block Street

New York: 10/2011 -- Occupier Tries to Steal Police Officer's Gun

New York: 10/27/2011 -- Occupiers Block Traffic, Get Arrested

Oakland: 10/27/2011 -- Occupiers Throw Garbage at Police

Oakland: 10/19/2011 -- Abusive #OccupyOakland Protesters Ban Media from Tent City

Eugene, OR: 10/19/2011 -- Occupiers Displace Farmers' Market Threatening Hundreds of Jobs

Portland, OR: 10/18/2011 -- Capitalist Offering Jobs at Occupy Portland Finds Few Takers

NY: 10/20/2011 -- #OccupyWallStreet Threatens Businesses, Patrons

NY: 10/14/2011 -- Violence Breaks Out During #OccupyWallStreet March Toward Stock Exchange

NY: 10/14/2011 -- Protesters March On Wall Street, Scuffle With Cops

Oakland: 10/19/2011 -- #OccupyOakland Protesters Threaten Reporter

Oakland: 10/26/2011 -- Occupiers Scuffle with Police

Oakland: 10/24/2011 -- Protesters Storm, Vandalize, Shut Down Chase Bank

Dayton, OH: 10/22/2011 -- Protester: 'F*ck The Military, F*ck Your Flag, And F*ck The Police'

Chicago: 10/14/2011 -- Protesters' Message At #OccupyChicago Rally: 'Destroy Israel'

NY: 10/23/2011 -- #OccupyWallStreet Supporter Rants Against Israel, Jews

NY: 10/22/2011 -- #Occupy Kid: 'Burn Wall Street, Burn!'

NY: 10/21/2011 -- New Yorkers Fed Up With Noisy, Defecating Protesters

Oakland: 10/21/2011 -- Occupy Oakland Evicted After Reports Of Crime And Intimidation

Oakland: 10/19/2011 -- #OccupyOakland Out of Control: Rats, Graffiti, Vandalism, Sexual Harassment, Public Sex and Urination

Chicago: 10/26/2011 -- Occupiers Under Investigation by FBI for Links to Terrorism

Cleveland: 10/29/2011 -- Rape Reported at Occupy Cleveland

Dallas: 10/24/2011 -- Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas

Bloomington, IN: 10/26/2011 -- Man Claims Occupy Bloomington Protesters Drugged, Handcuffed Him

NY: 10/10/2011 -- Sex, Drugs and Hiding from the Law at Wall Street Protests

Glasgow: 10/26/2011 -- Woman Gang-Raped

Boston: 10/23/2011 -- Occupy Boston Protesters Arrested For Dealing Heroin -- With 6 Year-Old in Tent

Portland: 10/16/2011 -- Sex Offender Registers Occupy Portland Camp as Address

Denver: 10/15/2011 -- Occupy Denver Demonstrator Accused of Groping TV Photographer

Lawrence, KS: 10/25/2011 -- Sexual Assault Reported at Occupy Camp

Minneapolis, MN: Bricks, Rocks, 'Riot Supplies' Discovered by Police

Phoenix, AZ: 10/27/2011 -- Neo-Nazis Patrol "Occupy Phoenix" With AR-15′s

Chicago: 10/26/2011 -- Occupy Chicago Invades City Hall

10/26/2011 -- ACORN, Occupy Email Talks About Assault on Banks

10/26/2011 -- OccupyWallStreet Strategy for Reports of Violence Against Cops

Chicago: 10/26/2011 -- Unrepentant Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayers Wows Occupiers

Chicago: 10/25/2011 -- Ayers Coaches #OccupyChicago, Callsg for School 'Occupations'

10/26/2011/ -- Occupy Protests Have Jewish Leaders Concerned

Wash DC: 10/27/2011 -- OccupyDC Leftists Provoke Police -- Hang Flag on Top of DC Statue

Albuquerque, NM: 10/26/2011 -- Occupy Squatters Riot With Police

San Diego: 10/25/2011 -- Flag Used as Chew Toy by Occupier's Dog

Oakland: 10/25/2011 -- Occupiers Throw Bottles at Police

NY: 10/27/2011 -- Occupy Wall Street Protesters: Rush Limbaugh Is Bigger Threat Than Al-Qaeda

10/27/2011 -- Occupy Wall Street Launching First Nationwide General Strike in America Since 1946

NY: 10/28/2011 -- Fox 5 News Reporter Assaulted at OWS

10/28/2001 -- Total Occupy Arrests Made Thus Far: 2750

Nashville: 10/28/2011 -- 30 Arrests Made at Wall St. Protest

NY: 10/20/2011 -- Former Marine Tries to Taunt Police into Violence

NY: 1023/2011 -- Islamist Group Joins with Occupy Wall Street

Los Angeles: 10/13/2011 -- Roundup of Overt Occupy anti-Semitism

NY: 10/12/2011 -- There are No Anti-Semites at Occupy Wall Street. Except for This Guy

Missoula, MT: 10/20/2011 -- Drunk 11-Year-Old At Occupy Missoula, Adult Arrested

Oakland: 10/28/2011 -- Bounty Out On Police Officer?

Manchester, NH: 10/28/2011 -- Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally

San Diego: 10/28/2011 -- 40 Occupiers arrested

Boston: 10/24/2011 -- Occupy Boston Vandalism of Banks

Boston: 10/25/2011 -- Store Owner Suffers 4 Break Ins Since Occupy Boston Began

Portland: 10/28/2011 -- Portland Police: Buckets of Excrement Scattered Around #OccupyPortland Camp

Seattle: 10/20/2011 -- Two Possible Occupiers Charged With Assault

Seattle: 10/18/2011 -- Armed Felon Arrested at Occupy Seattle

Seattle: 10/18/2011 -- A Tent Fight and (At Least) One Arrest at Occupy Seattle

Seattle: 10/17/2011 -- Over 50 Cops Clear Westlake Occupation, Make Eight Arrests

Seattle: 10/13/2011 -- Cops Arrest Several Occupy Protesters

Seattle: 10/13/2011 -- Chanting Protesters Surround Police After Officers Arrest Two

Denver: 10/29/2011 -- Protesters Clash with Police at OWS Denver

Austin: 10/13/2011 -- Occupy Austin protesters arrested for blocking cleaning Crews

Calgary, CN: 10/28/2011 -- Occupiers do $40,000 in Property Damage

Cincinnati, OH: 10/21/2011 -- 23 Arrested, Remains of protests fill two dumpsters

Sacramento: 10/19/2011 -- 9 arrested in 'Occupy Sacramento' protest

Sacramento: 10/13/2011 -- Four More Occupy Sacramento Demonstrators Arrested

Austin, TX: 10/22/2011 -- Man Arrested After Knife Incident at Occupy Austin Camp

Nashville: 10/29/2011 -- Tenn. Protesters Arrested For 2nd Straight Night

Austin, TX: 10/30/2011 -- Austin Police arrest 38 Occupy Austin Protesters

NY: 10/30/2011 -- Woman Assaulted in Her tent

Orlando, FL: 10/28/2011 -- Occupy Orlando, police clash over use of downtown park

Orlando, FL: 10/26/2011 -- 2 Occupy Orlando protesters arrested for trespass

Orlando, FL: 10/22/2011 -- Police arrest 19 Orlando protesters on trespass charges

Asheville, NC: 10/30/2011 -- Occupiers Clash with Homeless in Asheville

Nationwide: 10/27/2011 -- Pro-Occupy Site claims 2511 Arrests Thus Far

Fort Worth, TX: 10/16/2011 -- Arrests at Occupy Fort Worth Protest

NY: 10/29/2011 -- Three Incidents of Anti-Semitism

San Francisco: 10/29/2011 -- Anti-Semitic, Folsom Street Fair Types & Che Guevara Lovin

Oklahoma City: 10/30/2011 -- Death of Street Poet at #OccupyOKC Treated as Homicide

Baltimore: 10/31/2011 -- Woman Claims She was Raped at #OccupyBaltimore

Boston: 10/31/2001 -- Alleged Heroin Dealer Joined Occupy Movement

Ottawa: 10/31/2011 -- #OccupyOttawa Violent & Sexual Assaults Not Reported to Police

Santa Barbara, CA: 10/5/2011 -- Occupiers Defy Police

Santa Barbara, CA: 10/6/2011 -- 8 Occupiers Arrested

Denver, CO: 10/31/2011 -- Occupiers Taunt Police, Knock Motorcycle Cop to Ground

Dallas, TX: 10/24/2011 -- 23 Occupy Dallas Protesters Arrested After Bank Demonstration

Richmond, VA: 10/31/2011 -- Arrests of Occupiers in Richmond

Dallas, TX: 1v1/1/2011: Man Arrested for Child Sex assault at Occupy Dallas Camp

NY: 11/1/2011 -- Protesters Flock to STD-Test Clinics After Occupier 'Free Love'

Iowa: 11/1/2011 -- Occupiers Intend to Disrupt Iowa Caucus

NY: 11/1/2011 -- Occupy Wall Street Costs Main Street Workers Their Jobs

San Diego: 10/29/2011 -- Businesswoman Closes Shop After Threats By Occupiers

Palm Desert, CA: 11/1/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested

Tampa, FL: 10/24/2011 -- Six Occupiers Arrested

Tampa, FL: 10/27/2011 -- Two More Arrested In Connection to Occupy Tampa Movement

Tampa, FL: 10/29/2011 -- Occupy Tampa Protesters Arrested After Scuffle With Police

Oakland, CA: 11/3/2011 -- Rallies Turn Violent

Seattle, WA: 11/2/2011 -- Cops, Protesters Clash

Oakland, CA: 11/3/2011 -- Protests Degenerate Into Chaos

Tulsa, OK: 11/2/2011 -- Occupiers Clash With Police

Sacramento, CA: 11/2/2011 -- Occupiers Smash County Vehicle Windows

Philadelphia: 11/2/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested

Charlottesville, VA: 11/1/2011 -- Underage Drinking at Occupy Charlottesville Site

Portland: 11/2/2011 -- Occupier Shoves Police Officer into Moving Bus

Oakland: 11/2/2011 -- Malkin's Collection of Vandalism and Menacing Signs

NYC: 11/3/2011 -- Occupier Busted In Tent Grope, Suspected In Rape

NYC: 11/4/2011 -- 16 OWS Protesters Arrested at Goldman Sachs HQ

Oakland, CA: 11-3-2011 -- Occupy-Friendly Business Vandalized

Asheville, NC: 11/3/2011 -- 24 Occupiers Arrested

Raleigh, NC: 10/28/2011 -- Eight at Occupy Raleigh Arrested After Standoff

NYC: 11/4/2011 -- Deranged Homeless Man Goes on Violent Rampage In Zuccotti Park

Dallas, TX: CPS Seizes Baby From 'Occupy Dallas' Site

Wash DC: 11/4/2011 -- Occupier Uses Child as Human Shield -- Video

Wash DC: 11/4/2011 -- Occupiers Try to Storm Americans for Prosperity Event -- Video

Omaha, NE: 11/3/2011 -- Three Occupiers Arrested

Atlanta: 11/3/2011 -- Protester Turns On Fellow Protester With Knife

Los Angeles: 10/28/2011 -- Drug Use and Property Damage

Boston, MA: 11/4/2011 -- 3 Charged With Dealing Crack; Occupy Boston 'Deteriorating'

Boston, MA: 11/4/2011 -- Occupiers Storm Israeli Consulate; Anti-Israel Chants -- Video

Vancouver, CN: 11/5/2011 -- Occupy Vancouver Death Dooms Protest Camp

Fort Collins, CO: 11/4/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Setting Fire to Condo Complex ... $10M Damage

Chula Vista, CA: 11/6/2011 -- Underage Girl Missing From Occupy Protests

Los Angeles, CA: 11/5/2011 -- Two Assaults Raise Concerns About Crime at Occupy L.A.

Dallas, TX: 11/5/2011 -- Eight Arrests at Dallas Bank Protest

Olympia, WA: 11/5/2011 -- Two Occupy Protesters Arrested

Seattle, WA: 11/3/2011 -- Occupiers Cost City $426,000; Most of it Police Overtime

Olympia, WA: 11/2/2011 -- 3 Occupiers Arrested for Suspected of Robbing Local Wine Merchant

Worcester, MA: 11/6/2011 -- 25 Occupiers Arrested

Milwaukee, WI: 11/2/2011 -- Photojournalist, Two others Arrested at Protest ... Video

Milwaukee, WI: 10/20/2011 -- Police Confront Occupier --Video ... Arrested

Wash. DC: 11/5/2011 -- Rampaging Occupiers Attack 78 Year-Old Woman -- Video

Rochester, NY: 11/3/2011 -- 161 Occupiers Arrested at Park

NYC: 11/5/2011 -- Police Clash With Occupiers, 20 Arrested at Courthouse Protest

NYC: 11/5/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Vandalizing McDonald's; Wanted Free Food

Asheville, NC: 11/5/2011 -- Four Occupiers Arrested

Honolulu, HI: 11/6/2011 -- Police Arrest Half-Dozen Occupiers

Waikiki, HI: 11/7/2011 -- Two Dozen Occupiers Arrested

Portland, OR: 11/7/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested for Threatening Restaurant Employees

Portland, OR: 11/7/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Threatening Security Staff with Hammer

Augusta, GA: 10/28/2011 -- Occupier Arrested in Knife Threat

Portland OR: 11/9/2011 -- Police Suspect Occupiers in Molotov Cocktail Attack

Sacramento, CA: 11/7/2011 -- Homeless Clash With Occupy Protesters At Park

New Orleans: 11/8/2011 -- Man Dead for Two Days Found in Occupy Encampment

San Diego: 11/7/2011 -- Occupiers Splatter Vendor Food Carts with Blood, Urine

Los Angeles: 11/7/2011 -- Occupiers Shut Down Burger King -- Video

Atlanta, GA: 11/6/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested After Attacking Police

St. Louis, MO: 11/9/2011 -- Occupiers Hack Into Mayor's Website

Oakland, CA: 11/8/2011 -- "Dangerous" Occupiers Hurting Small Business Owners

Vancouver, CN: 11/8/2011 -- Occupiers Bite Two Police Officers

Wash DC: 11/8/2011 -- Occupiers Use Children to Block Traffic -- Video

Portland, OR: 11/9/2011 -- Occupiers Threaten Citizen-Journalist -- Video

Wash DC: 11/8/2011 -- Occupiers Use Racial Taunts Against Black Security Guard -- Video

Eureka, CA: 11/9/2011 -- Occupier Defecates in Bank -- Video

Wash DC: 11/5/2011 -- Occupiers Menace Children, Female Reporter -- Video

Portland, OR: 11/8/2011 -- Occupiers Menace News Crew -- Video

NYC: 11/8/2011 -- Occupier: 'I Wouldn't Give a F**k if 9/11 Happened 911 More Times'

NYC: 11/8/2011 -- Small Business Owner Threatened, Terrorized By Occupiers

San Francisco, CA: 11/10/2011 -- Occupier Threatens Park Ranger

Burlington, VT: 11/10/2011 -- Veteran Shoots Self at Encampment

Oakland, CA: 11/3/2011 -- 'Occupy Oakland' Goes After Cop

NYC: 11/10/2011 -- EMT Assaulted at Occupy Wall Street

San Diego, CA: 11/10/2011 -- Occupier Attacks Woman with Camera

Berekely, CA: 11/10/2011 -- 39 Occupiers Arrested

Westwood, CA: 11/9/2011 -- 11 Occupiers Arrested for Blocking Traffic

Fresno, CA: 11/9/2011 -- 40 Occupiers Arrested

Toledo, OH: 11/1/2011 -- 2 Occupiers Arrested

Houston, TX: 11/9/2011 -- 10 Occupiers Arrested

NYC: 11/8/2011 -- Hobbyist Photographer Describes Assault in Zuccotti Park

Oakland, CA: 11/10/2011: Fatal Shooting Over Drugs

Oakland: CA: 11/10/2011 -- Protesters Attack News Crew Covering Fatal Shooting

Pasadena, CA: 11/10/2011 -- Occupiers Announce Plans to Disrupt Rose Bowl Parade

Tampa, FL 11/10/2011 -- Three Occupiers Arrested

Portland, OR: 11/10/2011 -- Occupiers Billed for Police Car Vandalism

Olympia, WA: 11/11/2011 -- Occupiers Asked to Pack Up After Assault, Drug Arrests

Denver, CO: 11/11/2011 -- Occupiers Storm BlogCon 11 ... One Arrest

Salt Lake City, UT: 11/12/2011 -- Protest Shut Down After Body Discovered In Tent

San Francisco: 11/8/2011 -- Shoplifting, Fights On The Rise Around Encampment

San Francisco: 11/10/2011 -- Occupiers Accused of Ferry Building Thefts, Filth

San Francisco: 11/10/2011 -- Protester Busted For Gun Violation Arrested Again

Mobile, AL: 11/9/2011 -- 18 Occupy Protesters Arrested

New Orleans: 11/11/2011 -- Death at Campsite Attributed To Alcohol Abuse

San Francisco: 11/12/2011 -- Occupier Slashes Police Officer With Razor, Another Injured

Portland: 11/13/2011 -- Three Arrested with Mortars, Fireworks

Chapel Hill, NC: 11/13/2011 -- Eight Occupiers for Trespassing

Norfolk, VA: Six Occupiers Arrested

Philadelphia, PA: 11/13/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Rape

Portland, OR: 10/27/2011 -- Sexual Assault: 'nobody should contact the police' -- Video

NYC: 11/12/2011 -- Occupiers Plan Mass Trespassing Campaign

Oakland, CA: 11/8/2011 -- Occupiers Plan Mass Trespassing Campaign

Salt Lake City, UT: 11/12/2011 -- 19 Occupiers Arrested

St. Louis, MO: 11/13/2011 -- 27 Occupiers Arrested

St. Louis, MO: 11/12/2011 -- Occupier Arrested

NYC: 11/13/2011 -- Occupier Slugs Police Officer

Oakland, CA: 11/10/2011 -- Occupiers Withdraw Resolution to Remain Peaceful

Portland, OR: 11/9/2011 -- Occupier Requires Life-Saving CPR After Drug Overdose

Portland, OR: 11/9/2011 -- 4 Reports of Substance Abuse

Olympia, WA: 11/12/2011: Growing Number of Drug, Violence Complaints

Atlanta, GA: 11/10/2011 -- TB Breaks Out at Occupy Home Base

NYC: 11/13/2011 -- Occupy Wall Street Costs Local Businesses $479,400

Nationwide: 11/11/2011 -- Occupy Death Toll Hits 7

Seattle, WA: 11-14-2011 -- Occupier Defecates on Public Sidewalk

Hartford, CT: 10/16/2011 -- Occupier Charged After Pulling Knife

Dallas, TX: 11/14/2011 -- 9-Month-Old Baby Removed From Camp Due to Health Concerns, Neglect

Albuquerque, NM: 10/27/2011 -- 2 Occupiers Arrested

Albuquerque, NM: 10/26/2011 -- More Than a Dozen Occupiers Arrested

Albuquerque, NM: 10/22/2011 -- Knife Attack at Occupy Camp

Albuquerque, NM: 10/27/2011 -- Police Forced to Remove Occupiers From Park Again, 37 Arrested

Albuquerque, NM: 10/8/2011 -- Occupier Arrested

University of New Mexico: 11/8/2011 -- Sordid Story of Lawlessness, Dozens of Arrests, Spitting on Walmart Customer

Albuquerque, NM: 10/16/2011 -- Occupier Cited for Blocking Traffic

Portland, OR: 11/14/2011 -- 51 Occupiers Arrested

Portland, OR: 11/14/2011 -- Occupiers Smash Bank Windows

Albany, NY: 11/15/2011 -- 20 Occupiers Arrested

Near Salem, OR: 11/13/2011 -- Three Occupiers Arrested With Explosives

Wash DC: 11/11/2011 -- Occupy' Mom 'Won't Stop' Putting Protest Above Her Kids' Safety

NYC: 11/15/2011: -- Hundreds of Occupiers Arrested, Chaos, Resisting Arrest, Object Thrown at Police

Houston, TX: 11/15/2011 -- Occupier Arrested

Minnesota: 11/15/2011 -- Occupy Minnesota Costs Taxpayers $10,000+ Each Day

Austin, TX: 11/15/2011 -- Occupier Accused of Masturbating in Front of 16 Year-old Girl

San Francisco, CA: 11/15/2011 -- Deadly Dog Disease Spreads at Occupy Camp

Philadelphia, PA: 11/15/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Assaulting Woman

Philadelphia, PA: 11/15/2011 -- Occupiers Vandalize Dilworth Plaza With Graffiti and Feces -- Video

Santa Cruz, CA: 11/15/2011 -- Ringworm, Scabies Outbreak at Occupy Camp

Oakland, CA: 11/14/2011 -- Occupiers Cost Taxpayers $2.4 Million

Wash DC: 11/16/2011 -- Suspected White House Shooter Spent Time with OccupyDC.

Pittsburgh, PA: 11/15/2011 -- Five Occupiers Arrested for Disorderly Conduct, Blocking Traffic

San Francisco, CA: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Storm Bank, 95 Arrested

Chicago, IL: 11/16/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Child Porn

NYC: 11/16/2011 -- Dozens Of Hypodermic Needles Found In Zuccotti Park

NYC: 11/16/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Making Terror Threats -- Video ... More.

Dallas, TX: 11/17/2011 -- 18 Occupiers Arrested

Charlotte, NC: 11/14/2011 -- Two Occupiers Arrested

Charlotte, NC: 11/15/2011 -- 8 Occupiers Arrested

Ottawa, CN: 10/29/2011 -- Feces, Urine, and Blood Covered Blanket Hung Over Tent

Los Angeles, CA: 11/15/2011 -- Occupier Charged With Masturbating In Front of Children

Los Angeles, CA: 11/15/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Attempting to Light Food Vendor On Fire

NYC: 11/15/2011 -- City Claims Occupy Wall Street Protesters Were Stockpiling Weapons

Wash DC: 11/15/2011 -- Occupiers Block Traffic, Three Injuries

NYC: 11/16/2011 -- 150 Trashmen Needed to Clean Occupy Park Filth

Los Angeles: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Block Freeways, 26 Arrested

NYC: 11/17/2011 -- Mob of Occupiers Taunt, Bully Small School Children

San Francisco, CA: 11/17/2011 -- Lice, Fleas, Disease Spread in Camp

NYC: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Create Citywide Mayhem, 275 Arrested

West Jordan, UT: 11/17/2011 -- Occupier Hurls Molotov Cocktail at Bank

NYC: 11/17/2011 -- Police Officer Slashed, Others Attacked

NYC: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Throw Vinegar In Eyes of Police Officers

Lincoln, NE: 11/5/2011 -- 4 Occupiers Arrested at Bank Protest

San Diego, CA: 1/17/2011 -- Occupiers Hold Moment of Silence In 'Solidarity' With Accused Obama Would-Be Assassin -- Video

Melbourne, AU: 11/18/2011 -- Children as Young as 12 Given Drugs, Alcohol

Los Angeles, CA: 11/17/2011 -- Dozens of Occupiers Arrested at Bank Protest

Denver, CO: 11/16/2011 -- Residents Complain Police Response Slowed Due to Occupiers

Denver, CO: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Block Traffic

Denver, CO: 11/18/2011 -- Occupiers Charged With Inciting a Riot, Assaulting Police Officer

Columbus, OH: 11/15/2011 -- 7 Occupiers Arrested for Refusing to Leave Bank

St. Louis, MO: 11/18/2011 -- Woman Sexually Assaulted

Portland, OR: 11/18/2011 -- Occupier Punches Police Horse -- Video

Missoula, MT: 10/26/2011 -- Occupier Charged With Getting 11-Year-Old Drunk

Portland, OR: 11/17/2011 -- Occupier Brags About Urinating In Public -- Video

Chicago, IL: 11/17/2011 -- 58% Believe Violence Against Government Sometimes Necessary

Portland, OR: 11/18/2011 -- Ocupier Uses Infant as Human Shield -- Video

NYC: 11/18/2011 -- Mob Calls For Revolutio,n Screams "F*ck cops! F*ck police!" -- Video

Portland, ME: 11/19/2011 -- Two Occupiers Arrested for Brutal Assaults

Orlando, FL: 11/14/2011 -- Two Occupiers Fight, One Injured By Knife

Pensacola, FL: 11/18/2011 -- Occupier Charged With Burglary, Brought Furniture to Occupy Camp

NYC: 11/19/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Blocking Traffic Also Wanted in Indiana

Philadelphia, PA: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested During Protest

Seattle, WA: 11/17/2011 -- Hundreds of Occupiers Snarl Traffic Around Medical Center

Columbia, SC: 11/16/2011 -- At Least 15 Occupiers Arrested

Mobile, AL: 11/17/2011 -- Occupier Arrested in Government Building

Dallas, TX: 11/2011 -- Media List of Occupy Arrests, Infractions

Santa Cruz, CA: 11/19/2011 -- County Officials Release List of 93 Acts of Lawlessness In and Around Occupy Camp

Santa Cruz, CA: 11/19/2011: Occupiers Suspected of Dumping 200 Pounds of Human Feces Near Veterans Building

Berkeley, CA: 11/18/2011 -- Woman Assaulted for Refusing to Join Occupy

Des Moines, IA: 11/20/2011 -- Occupy Leader Arrested on Drug Charges

NYC: 11/20/2011 -- Occupier Arrested With Handgun, Ammo

Eugene, OR: 11/19/2011 -- Heroin Overdose at Occupy Camp

Seattle, WA: 11/19/2011 -- 70 Occupiers Trespass on Foreclosed Home

Portland, ME: 11/19/2011 -- Three Occupiers Charged, Including a Hammer Attack

NYC: 11/18/2011 -- 'Runaway Mom' Arrested for Disorderly Conduct

Hartford, CT: 11/17/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested for Blocking Traffic

Austin, TX: 11/18/2011 -- Five Occupiers Arrested for Trespassing

Minneapolis, MN: 11/20/2011 -- Occupiers Arrested for Burglary, Blocking Police Car -- Video

Oakland, CA; 11/20/2011 -- Occupiers Defy Legal Eviction, Return to Camp

Wash DC: 11/19/2011 -- 11 Occupiers Arrested for Trespassing

San Francisco, CA: 11/18/2011 -- Camp Declared Public Health Nuisance; Eviction Deadline Passes

Oakland, CA: 11/19/2011 -- Occupiers Plan to Shut Down all Ports on West Coast

NYC: 11/19/2011 -- Occupier Arrested for Forcibly Touching Woman

NYC: 11/21/2011 -- Occupiers Pledge to Stick It to Taxpayers

Houston, TX: 11/22/2011 -- 15 Rounds fired Into Occupy Camp, Gunmen Shot & Arrested

London: 11/21/2011 -- Occupiers Defecate in St. Paul's Cathedral

Oakland, CA: 11/21/2011 -- Occupy Oakland Hosts Gay Porn Movie Shoot

Oakland, CA: 11/22/2011 -- Domestic Terror Group, Weather Underground, Joins #Occupy

Columbia, SC: 11/21/2011 -- Occupiers Defy Curfew

NYC: 11/21/2011 -- Three Occupiers Arrested After Rowdy Demonstration Outside Mayor's Home

Phoenix, AZ:; 11/21/2011 -- Eight Occupiers Arrested

Albany, NY: 11/20/2011 -- 48 Occupiers Arrested

Pensacola, FL: 11/21/2011 -- City Hall Vandalized After Occupy Protest

Fort Meyers, FL: 11/20/2011 -- Occupier Arrested On Bomb Threat Charges -- Video

Milwaukee, WI: 10/20/2011 -- Occupier Arrested at Bank Protest -- Video

Nationwide: 11/23/2011 -- Occupiers Cost Taxpayers $13 million, So Far

Toronto, CN: 11/23/2011 -- 8 Occupiers Arrested

-- Posted by Keda46 on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 2:55 PM

Excuse me I meant conservatives.

-- Posted by Wildhorse on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 2:06 PM

This is what the wingers want to see:

http://texshelters.wordpress.com/2011/11...

-- Posted by Wildhorse on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 2:05 PM

Mickel,

So I should stop holding my breath waiting for you to present evidence of "theft, rape, drug overdose, a death.." etc?

You have given me: garbage (which is a perfectly silly thing to complain about by the way), some kid's hyperbolic threat, and a couple hypodermic needles whose users may or may not have been OWS protestors. I have spent time in NYC, it is possible (even likely) that those needles would have been there regardless of OWS. My point is, if you are trying to attack the character of all OWS protestors with the actions described above, you are failing.

Regarding "Tea Party decorum", above I posted episodes of violence against counter protestors, clear racism, ugly hatred, and sheer galloping stupidity coming from the Tea Party. What you call "decorum" is no better (in fact it is much worse) than anything I have seen from the OWS crowd. A window can be replaced. A stomped head cannot. Feces on a cop car can be cleaned up. A racial epithet endures forever.

To all,

What I find most interesting about our conversations here is that the points of debate for either movement are not being questioned or examined. We have fallen into a Sisyphustic rut here...whether the OWS crowd is filthy, or whether the Tea Partiers are obnoxious slack-jawed yokels is completely beside the point. It also isn't productive.

What about the points being raised by each group?

Isn't it worth evaluating the logic of the complaints being issued by TP/OWS?

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 12:51 PM

evictions*

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 12:08 PM

I am wondering if these needles were found after the forced evicitions of the OWSheep camps? I have hard time believing they were used and then simply dropped on the ground.

Although it is doubtful for junkies to worry about littering, I also find it doubtful they'd even discard the needle to begin with. But then again, I guess I am unsure either way.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 12:08 PM

I'm not sure if that's really reinforcing your point dawg.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 12:01 PM

yes, they are clean with their meds, but if a diabetic is part of the ows crowd they are unwashed, dirty, filthy people are they not?

-- Posted by president obama on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:55 AM

Would Occupy Wall Sheep work for you?

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:54 AM

I have no problems mocking either crowd. However OWStards isn't as catchy.

-- Posted by bberry on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:49 AM

bberry, I am guessing by your continuing use of the term "Teatards", you have no problem with conservatives mocking the OWS crowd as unwashed and filthy vermin who want everything for nothing.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:46 AM

Mickel

The voters made the decision to defeat the proposed legislation in Ohio - aren't they also the taxpayers?

-- Posted by Geezer on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:55 AM

bigdawg...??? Diabetics are pretty clean with the administration of their own medications. They understand the danger of leaving sharps around for innocents to become injured from them. Your statement is reaching at best.

Geezer - What does a militant crowd (there were several in the group going along with the instigator) have to do with the successful disarming of the Iraqi military?? You're confusing the issue.

Did I miss something? Is the OWS Protest movement made up of private union members? The movement is protesting big banking and big investing - but are they aware that the campaign donations from these businesses to Obama's campaign eclipse what all the GOP candidates combined have raised?

You raise the issue of CBA's - while not mentioning that the reason various states have been putting the kibosh on the unions CBA's; is because the taxpayers are expected to continually support the increases of public employees while tightening up their own belts...and being told it's the right thing to do. Your example is skewed. Robbing Peter to pay Paul eventually leave's Peter without anything.

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 9:12 AM

Mickel

Let me begin by saying we all have made statements that later we regret having said. You make the reference to a demonstrator saying they would burn New York City to the ground -- I also remember when President G.W. Bush made the famous speech about the invasion of Iraq on the aircraft carrier with the banner Mission Accomplished behind him in 2003.

The last paragraph of your post seems to make the same argument that teachers unions, firefighters unions, police unions, labor unions, etc., etc. are making. They also should have the right to the American Dream as you say. They are tired of political influence taking away what they have worked for their entire life. The change in tide has shown that they have seen a political arm going over the top. The defeat of the recent proposed collective bargaining legislation in Ohio is a clear example of people voting their conscience -- and getting back to what they see is right about this country.

-- Posted by Geezer on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 8:22 AM

perhaps he was being metaphorical when he said that about new york. Was anything set of fire or was it burned to the ground on the 17th?

hypodermic needeles- sure says a blood sugar problem to me. Did you read past the head line or jump to these conclusions on your own.

sanitation workers picking through garbage, isnt that their job?

-- Posted by president obama on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:46 AM

Benny - For one who takes fellow bloggers to task under the premise of their "literacy skills" - you sure may want to reconsider your position of defence.

"Yet your articles were about: 1) food, 2) garbage, and 3) an unrelated opinion piece about whether OWS makes people long for the Tea Party."

Article #1 - Among some of the notable reporting was this tidbit: "In a video posted on YouTube after protesters were evicted from Zuccotti Park, a demonstrator in the crowd says "On the 17th, we're going to burn New York City to the ground." - here is said link to said video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilq_66LnR...

A far cry from TEA Party decorum. There are many liberal OWS protesters in this crowd crying out in support of unrest, vandalism, destruction of property and making people pay.

Also was this from article #2: "City sanitation workers yesterday were forced to pick through a filthy pile of property seized from Zuccotti Park including dirty hypodermic needles, moldy food and glass-littered, broken gadgets."

Hypodermic needles - sure says drugs to me. Did you read past the headlines? At all? The sites where the TEA party rallies were held were left clean, orderly and without threats made to persons limb, life or property.

Citizens of this country know the difference Benny and bberrytard - even if you guys (gals?) don't. Most people in America live their lives by getting up every morning, facing their responsibilities, going to work, providing for their families, trying to build something positive in their lives, and enjoy some of the American dream as they go along. They know the difference between voting their conscience and going over the top. Most people in this country are conservative in their lifestyle, if not their ideology. The social experiments have failed. People are yearning for a getting back to what is right about this country - not trying to destroy something that somebody else worked for.

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 7:10 AM

Thanks in particular to Geezer. That was an interesting article. I saw Condie Rice and Bill Clinton were on the Daily Show the other week. Tom Brokaw, Brian Williams, and Bill O'Reilly are frequent guests, as are several foreign heads of state. It is not surprising to learn that viewers are more informed than Fox News viewers, Jon Stewart does a good job of successfully balancing information with comedy...intellectual debate with toilet humor.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 9:53 AM

Thanks to all for the links. Appreciated.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 9:20 AM

guess I have never seen people living in the park or trash in the streets in new york before.

-- Posted by president obama on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 2:45 AM

http://www.examiner.com/populist-in-nati...

-- Posted by Benevolus on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 1:14 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUsBvkfQK...

-- Posted by Benevolus on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 1:02 AM

http://youtu.be/Wl1ObUGAoHE

-- Posted by Keda46 on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 12:58 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

-- Posted by Keda46 on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 12:40 AM

One of the differences between the Tea Party and OWS is that the Teatards protests were few and far between. There were maybe a handful or two of protests marking certain ocassions. OWS on the other hand has been continuous and spreading since mid September.

There is going to be an obvious amount of difference in trash.

-- Posted by bberry on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 7:46 PM

Here is a recent report about various news outlets and the role they play in informing the public on what is going on in the world.

Before you read the report make a list of the news outlets you consider to be the best at doing this task - then read the report.

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/

-- Posted by Geezer on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 7:10 PM

You can exhale now Doodle.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 6:57 PM

Remember this gem? Shall we allow Tim Proffitt's actions to represent the Tea Party so we can make it easier to ignore their criticisms?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbnEy_U9p...

Or how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5X1Forjw...

Or this...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/20...

There are actually a lot of these videos, much more than I thought. I wonder why the "Liberal Media" didn't do a better a job of sensationalizing the violence at Tea Party rallies. I also wonder why more Tea Partiers weren't sprayed with pepper spray and beaten with clubs.

Oh and maybe I wasn't paying attention, but can someone please post a link that shows a Tea Party rally lasting more than a a few hours? I suspect that length and commitment to the demonstration may have to do with the differences we are seeing. Thanks.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 6:57 PM

My memory is failing due to advanced years. Would someone please post links to where police and sanitation were called in to clean up after Tea Party rallies (or, protests, if you like) in several cities? Thanks in advance.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 6:36 PM

After the clear documentation of police brutality in several OWS demonstrations in more than one major US city--from 80 year old women getting maced, to 95 lbs Asian exchange students being battered with clubs--I think police are lucky a little spit, a few broken windows, and some trash are all they had to deal with.

Not an argument for breaking the law, just saying that police brutality can often inspire an equal and opposite reaction. That didn't seem to be the case.

The most important thing to keep in mind here is that if you are anti-Tea Party, it is easy to buy into the media's veneer plastered over the legitimate points of debate issued by the Tea Party. That veneer is that Tea Party supporters are racist, hypocritical, uneducated, gun-toting, religious zealots.

If you are anti-OWS it is just as easy to buy into the media's veneer of OWS as lazy, uncouth, drum-beating druggies, with no coherent message, or purpose other than shirking responsibility. And buying into that makes you just as likely to miss serious and valid points of debate as well.

The M-4 carrying xenophobe and the drum-beating drug addict are made to represent each movement respectively. Both portrayals are just wrong as they are right.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 6:14 PM

It was reported that a female coast guard member was spat on and a water bottle thrown at her around the boston OWS.

-- Posted by bberry on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 5:44 PM

Ok then show me where a uniformed Coast Guard member was spit on and when,or was this just from some right wing blog like this one.

-- Posted by Wildhorse on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 5:27 PM

Where did I mention that

-- Posted by Wildhorse on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 5:10 PM

Wildhorse,

I'm sorry I was mistaken, it was a uniformed Coast Guard member that was spat on not a police officer.

Interesting that is the only contention you have with my post. No comment on fires, smashing windows, interfering with other peoples rights. Do you have no problem with those activities?

You mention that the police didn't respond negatively to Tea party gatherings, which was exactly my point. Why do you think that is? Are police all secretly Tea Party supporters and right wing fanatics bend on dominating poor defenseless left wing sympathizers who never break laws? Or is there some other dynamic in play?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 4:19 PM

Please watch this video and then try explain the difference between the tea party and OWS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/...

These are some of their demands:

1. A "progressive" tax that doesn't hurt the poor/Close loopholes/Reform corporate offshore taxation

2. End the Federal Reserve.

3. Campaign finance reform

4. Overturn Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (corporate personhood, etc.)

5. Prosecute corporate fraud (including those who have gotten away with it)

‎6. Abolish the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC)

7. Implement Financial Speculation Fees on large stock trades

8. Regulate/reform conflict of interest between government and business and SEC regulators

9. End all US wars and illegal combat operations

10. Prosecute US war criminals (like Chenney & Rumsfeld)

11. Repeal Gramm--Leach--Bliley Act, Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999/re-instate all provisions of Glass--Steagall Act

12. Financial Reform Package, including: Forgiving of student loans; Federal oversight/regulation of hedge funds & derivatives; mortgages can no longer be deemed commodities

13. Social Security will never be privatized or dismantled.

14. Companies will not outsource jobs and services that can be performed by Americans if their jobs and services serve American markets.

15. Bridge CEO-employee salary gap by lowering CEO earnings.

16. Make it illegal to commodify "life" or any resource necessary for the public good (philosophy of The Commons). Monsanto OUT of our food supply.

17. Election reforms to allow third parties better access

18. Department of Justice reforms to uphold civil rights in all states

19. Further health care reforms

20. Impliment green energy alternatives/hasten phasing out fossil fuels

-- Posted by Wildhorse on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 2:25 PM

means many things grandma; much like, define "is"

-- Posted by doodle bug on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 12:30 PM

are you that dence? it means he is no longer running his own blog. The fact that someone has to explain that to you says alot. wow

-- Posted by president obama on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 12:27 PM

So let me see if I have this correct Sam. In your worldview, when TEA Partiers complain about taxes they are patriots and true Americans. When Occupier complain about taxes they are lazy, brain-washed, Marxist thugs, and above all else whiners.

You can chastise me all you want and call me every name in the book if you choose, but the bottom line is that the only difference between the original TEA Party groups and Occupy groups is that the TEA Party was taken over by corporate and political interests. The original TEA Party was a grass roots organization for about three months.

You can call me brainwashed all you want but at the end of the day I was supportive of the basic complaints of the TEA Party (once the corporate takeover occurred they lost my support) and I am supportive of the Occupy movement. How you consider that being brainwashed I guess is something you will have to explain.

On the other side you so fully wrapped yourself up in the corporate version of the TEA Party movement that when people started showing up with negative signs about non-conservatives you happily went along with the corporate excuse that it was actually liberals holding those signs. When the Occupy movement started you happily repeated every word and insult that your corporate and Republican leaders wanted you to say, often verbatim.

So who fits the definition of brainwashed better, Sam? Someone who supported both movements or someone that repeated every line they were told to repeat?

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 10:13 AM

grandmajo

I did not say I endorsed that statement or that it led to anything. I provided it for Chunky, since he is the one who mocked Mr. Ortega as possibly being a right wing plant.

Read it anyway you want grandmajo - that is why I posted the article.

I let the readers decide for themselves.

-- Posted by Geezer on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 10:03 AM

Chunky

Here is an article on Mr. Ortega which somewhat summarizes his background etc.

A quote from page two of the article:

Mr. Chapman, 21, said he had not heard Mr. Ortega talk of taking violent action. But more than a year ago, he recalled, Mr. Ortega and others watched an antigovernment film on the Internet called "The Obama Deception," which was written, directed and produced by Alex Jones, a Texas-based conservative talk show host who has espoused a number of conspiracy theories involving the federal government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/us/osc...

-- Posted by Geezer on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 7:35 AM

And I am betting if you had access to NYPD archives you could find photographic evidence of the PD planting all the garbage and hypodermics found in Zucotti Park!

-- Posted by doodle bug on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 5:13 PM

Wildhorse,

You raise a valid point. From what I recall there were many instances where the tea party folks openly carried weapons. What I don't recall is them throwing rocks, spitting on police, smashing windows, starting fires, interfering with other people's rights, and committing or allowing other crimes at thier events. I wonder if the presence of firearms deterred the crimes or if the people who joined tea party rallies were just not the type of people who commit crimes, as apparently some of the occupiers are.

What are your thoughts?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 1:42 PM

crickets

-- Posted by president obama on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 12:30 PM

He did claim to be Jesus....according to someone's logic I wonder if that makes him "smart enough to be a part of the [religious] crowd!"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-5...

-- Posted by Benevolus on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 11:38 AM

stil nothing to back up his claim

-- Posted by president obama on Sun, Nov 20, 2011, at 9:07 AM

About him breing a right-wing plant? OK, I may have over indulged there. I am sorry.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sat, Nov 19, 2011, at 9:40 PM

chunky watches fox news where they made the baseless accusation that he was some sort of occupy protester

-- Posted by president obama on Sat, Nov 19, 2011, at 3:43 PM

Chunky

Do you have some facts to back up that statement?

In trying to determine why he recently traveled to the nation's capital from the western part of the country, investigators searched the Occupy D.C. campground near the White House but have found no connection between him and the Occupy protesters, according to three law enforcement officials familiar with the case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/whit...

-- Posted by Geezer on Sat, Nov 19, 2011, at 2:04 PM

I see where one of the occupiers took a shot at POTUS. Must have been a right-wing plant.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sat, Nov 19, 2011, at 12:13 PM

Has anyone ever heard of glued meat? Thought maybe some of you bloggers would like to comment on this. I had never heard of anything like this.

Sorry for going off topic - I apologize.

http://d.yimg.com/nl/australia/site/play...

-- Posted by Geezer on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 5:45 PM

Doodle,

I don't think the Dems have a coherent enough message to have have a particular news organization push their their agenda. What i mean is, the difference between Ben Nelson and Barney Frank is about as big as the difference between Eisenhower and Mussolini. But Frank and Nelson are in the same party. I am not sure that we can safely say that CNN, MSNBC, NBC, etc., represent both Frank's and Nelson's political philosophies very well.

Whereas the GOP is normally lockstep and coherent, and this is and has been a strength of the party for decades. This coherency makes representation in the media prospectively easier (Of course, one could point out how the GOP has never really lived up to what it outlines its policies to be, but that is another story).

My point is this, I think that MSNBC developed their market niche to support the left-wing of the Dems as a result of the rampant bias of Fox News. From a marketing perspective, MSNBC is far less lucrative than Fox because it caters to a narrower group. Therefore, it doesn't make much sense as a platform to represent the Democratic party. From a marketing perspective, Murdock did the same thing with Fox, but there are far more viewers of Fox, and the Fox agenda reaches more voters, so predictably, Fox provides a very attractive forum for the GOP to spread its message.

I think CNN sits squarely between the two, and does a fairly good job of giving voice to both sides of any particular issue. In fact, some of the most scathing criticisms of Obama's administration and policies I have read appeared in CNN's opinion section.

Lastly, Fox News is fundamentally different in that there is some evidence that Fox and the GOP are actually in collusion with one another. I have not personally seen evidence of the same between the Dems and other media organizations. Though I guess it would not surprise me to find such ties between the left-wing of the Dems and MSNBC.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 1:22 PM

Don't think it matters doodle. Paul has received less coverage regardless of political affiliation of news networks. However, Paul is much too libertarian in my opinion.

-- Posted by bberry on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 1:00 PM

Then I guess CNN, MSNBC, NBC, etc. etc. etc. could be considered wholly owned subsidiaries of the Dems?

-- Posted by doodle bug on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 12:43 PM

Romney seems to be a hypocrit at best. While opposing the Affordable Healthcare Act, he imposed his own mandatory health insurance. He opposes tax increase yet while governor increased state fees collecting an additional 740 million along with increased property taxes.

I imagine you can choose to what you'd like to believe on his ever changing attitude towards things like abortion, gun control, stem cell research etc.

While he does have some good qualities about him, I find it hard to put any faith in him while he says one thing and does another.

If anything we can crack more jokes about him strapping his dog to the top of his car for 12 hours.

-- Posted by bberry on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 10:17 AM

SWNebr Transplant,

It wouldn't take much more than a google search for Obama + Romney to see what I am talking about. But here is an article that summarizes my point nicely.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11...

Here is a quote from an article about Romney standing on both sides of the cap-and-trade issue. If it sounds familiar it's because Obama has followed a similar trajectory.

"The former Massachusetts governor has stood on each side of the cap-and-trade issue; he has gone from staunch advocate for taking on global warming to a climate change skeptic. He once claimed he was a lifelong hunter, then said anyone who called him a hunter had "mischaracterized" him. He supports clean energy, just not in the form of wind turbines off the coast of Cape Cod."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2...

Also, bear in mind Romney is in campaign mode, and he is trying like hell to distance himself from Obama. So what you are hearing now is political jive. But a look at his policy history reveals a breadth of similarity to Obama.

Doodlebug,

I didn't say that Fox News endorsed a candidate. They do seem to devote airtime and discussion time disproportionately to cover Bachmann, Perry, and Cain. For whatever reason, Ron Paul is doing quite well in the straw polls, but Fox doesn't talk about it.

Also, I wasn't arguing the "leaning" tendencies of Fox News or any other news organization. But since you brought it up, Fox News doesn't "lean"...Fox News is pretty much a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP.

MSNBC strikes me as the left's answer to Fox News. Everything else lies somewhere between I suspect.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 10:13 AM

I know I am not as erudite, but, in my opinion, Romney is a much better choice than Obama. How much experience did Obama have in 2008? I am sure I am mistaken, but I dont recall FoxNews endorsing any candidate. In my estimation, they do lean right. But they are also open to having any left leaning candidates appear on FoxNews. Please dont imply that NBC, MSNBC, etc. etc. etc. do not fully support the liberal agenda.

-- Posted by doodle bug on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 9:29 AM

Benevolus,

Other than the healthcare issue, how else are Romney and Obama "virtually identical"? Especially given that Romney now says he doesn't support a mandate? Taxes? Trade? Military? I guess they both have said they don't favor gay marriage so I guess they are "virtually identical" there maybe.

I'm not saying that Romney is a better choice than Obama, I just don't think your, and bberry's, comments indicating that the reason to vote for Obama is that he's a better Obama than Romney make much sense. You've repeated conclusions but haven't supported them.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 9:00 AM

Doodlebug (and Boomer62),

It looks like you too completely missed the point. I said given two candidates that are virtually identical in their history of policy-making (i.e., Romney-Obama), I'll take the guy with four years experience.

In other words, all things being equal, I agree with the right wing that experience does matter.

If Paul is going to continue to be ignored my hope is that the GOP comes up with someone that Fox News will throw their considerable weight behind who is not a complete idiot. So far, that has not happened.

If it comes down to Romney v. Obama, Obama is the best choice.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 11:06 PM

Already has in some places.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 10:34 PM

Is it me, or is this protest about to turn violent?

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 9:19 PM

I tnod kniht I lliw etov siht raey, m'I derit fo gnitov rof lepoep ohw lliw ssem sgniht pu eht tsael

-- Posted by president obama on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 9:09 PM

SWNebr,

I had no intention of voting for Romney. But thanks for giving me permission to vote how I feel, although I intended to anyways.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 8:27 PM

Benevolus, in my opinion, you have changed. The guy with four years experience under his belt? That is laughable. Would you have used that same criteria to vote for George Bush in 2004?

-- Posted by doodle bug on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 6:07 PM

So Obama has more experience than any in the GOP field?

Compare Obama to Ron Paul:

Legislative experience--goes to Paul

Military experience--goes to Paul

Knowledge of economics--goes to Paul

Honesty--goes to Paul

Integrity--goes to Paul

Intelligence--goes to Paul

Understanding of foreign relations--goes to Paul

Ability with BS--goes to Obama.

Ron Paul 2012, the time has come for reason.

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 5:23 PM

Mickel,

Recall that your "emotive assertions" were: "theft, rape, drug overdose, a death, littering and filth, ignorance and foul mouths."

Yet your articles were about: 1) food, 2) garbage, and 3) an unrelated opinion piece about whether OWS makes people long for the Tea Party.

I am not saying you are making things up, your claims may be true...I am simply pointing out that you have yet to support any of your "emotive assertions."

Whereas I said Cain is entirely too ignorant to be within 1000m of the oval office, and posted a link demonstrating why. I also offered posts as to why Bachmann and Perry should be stripped of their rights to travel to DC as well, I am still willing to provide with those videos should you ask.

You write:

"And yet somehow they [GOP candidates] are like a breath of fresh air when compared to Obama and company...."

Not to me. With the exception of Paul and Romney the GOP field is an army of dung beetles. 1000 years of Obama would be preferable to Bachmann, Perry, Cain, Sanotrum, etc., even for just 4 years.

SWNebr Transplant,

You write:

"It would seem to me a better option would be to not vote or write in someone."

First, recall that I qualified my remark by saying that given a choice between Romney and Obama..."If you are getting Obama or Obama Light with a Romney vote anyway..."

You might think Miney Mouse is a better choice...but I was speaking hypothetically, and making sense of bberry's comments in light of my own thinking.

But I will answer your question anyway. Obama has 4 years of experience as commander and chief, and as the rightwing correctly pointed out (and as Obama's first year and a half proved) experience does matter.

Romney has executive experience, I wouldn't want to deny that, but one fact nobody can deny is that Obama has more presidential experience than anyone in the GOP field, including Romney. Ergo, if the choice came down to Obama/Romney (which is likely), I'll take the guy with 4 years under his belt. I encourage you to do the same.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 2:49 PM

Benevolus,

It depends on how snarky and rude one wishes to be.

Assuming that a vote for Romney is a vote for Obama light and one doesn't like Obama, why does a vote for Obama make more sense than Obama light? Do you have a reason for this conclusionary statement? It would seem to me a better option would be to not vote or write in someone.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 12:52 PM

"bberry, - I am with you. The GOP field is the weakest I have ever seen it."

And yet somehow they are like a breath of fresh air when compared to Obama and company. Even Beetle Bailey would be an improvement over The Big BO.

-- Posted by Mickel on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 12:52 PM

Emotive assertion or fact? Let's let readers decide. I'm siding with Sam that the OWS crowd takes a non-constructive venue towards demonstration.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/16/o...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manha...

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.c...

As for global warming - you conveniently sidestep the non-debunked forged data, presented by the 'warming' crowd for years. And so what if one of my links led to a blog - Whats the Huffington Post? Hard news? Your linked story even has Mueller admitting that he has not examined ocean data. I'm sure you also didn't read so far as to find that Mueller has continued and will continue to accept the Koch's money to fund further research.

That being said, I appreciate your multi-syllable, eloquent screaming...it gives one such an appreciation for level-minded rationale.

-- Posted by Mickel on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 12:48 PM

SWNebr Transplant,

Not putting words in bberry's mouth (or on his computer screen as it were), but I took the implication of his Romney-Obama healthcare comparison to mean that they are in many ways (even beyond healthcare I would argue) 6 of one/half a dozen of the other. I agree with bberry.

If you are getting Obama or Obama Light with a Romney vote anyway, then between the two a vote for Obama makes more sense.

Bachmann, Cain, and Perry are all kidding themselves at this point. I would guess that Gingrich and Romney are likely to be frontrunners--if for no other reason than they are just damn good politicians. Paul, the only candidate not sticking to the GOP script may surprise, but right now he seems to be on the outside looking in.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 12:08 PM

bberry,

I am with you. The GOP field is the weakest I have ever seen it. The only real fund-raiser is Romney, but as you point out, it is hard to see where he ends and Obama begins.

Paul is interesting, and I think by far the smartest candidate in the race (although Gingrich is up there). But for whatever reason Fox News gives him no air time and his total speaking time in the debates is a fraction of Perry's, Romeney's and Cain's. That is interesting to me because last I read he had won something like 9 straw polls.

The point is that the only vote I would ever consider apart from Obama is Paul, and he seems like a long shot, unfortunately.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 11:01 AM

SWNebr Transplant,

Can people "hear" other people on a blog?

-- Posted by Benevolus on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 9:26 AM

bberry,

I'm not sure I understand your voting intention remarks. You appear to say that you would vote for Romney except he has previously supported a State mandate for healthcare so therefore your only logical alternative is to "grudgingly" vote for someone who has supported a Federal mandate for healthcare. Would you vote for Romney if he advocated the continuation of the "shoddy" healthcare system as Obama has? That isn't hypocritical? If you want to support Obama that's cool but if your above post is the reason you are doing so, that doesn't make much sense to me.

Further if you live in or around McCook I don't think a vote for Obama will accomplish much anyway, especially if it is grudgingly given. It doesn't sound like you want to do much to garner more support for him in the area. But vote how you feel.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 8:49 AM

Yet you offer no refutal for the prior points about the candidates stefffanie. Yeah, we'll go ahead and listen to you.....

You'd hold more ground if you actually offered input instead of sidestepping the subject altogether and then make some baseless accusation.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 8:41 AM

Benevolus,

I think it depends on one's perception, is it ok to be rude about people who can't hear you but not about people who can?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 8:40 AM

It is hypocritical to scold one for criticizing political figures and then make no mention of the others who are doing it. Unless you think it is only acceptable to criticize someone as long as they share the same view as you.

I had hope for the GOP candidates but it is starting to fade. Between Cain's turd of a 999 plan or knowing nothing of Libya or Perrys flat tax along with trying to upheave the branches of government it leaves little to hope for. You could look at Romney as long as you don't mind him trying to implement mandatory health insurance, but thatd be hyprocritical since Obama's shoddy healthcare plan is pretty much the same thing.

Looking at all these things, who do we vote for from the GOP? Bachmann; Huntsman? No thanks, I'd rather grudgingly vote for Obama.

-- Posted by bberry on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 8:29 AM

SWNebr Transplant,

Expressing an opinion about political figures and being rude to other posters requires a distinction, does it not?

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 8:01 PM

"are in a three-way battle for the dumbest GOP candidates not only in this election cycle, but possibly in history."

Disappointing, for someone not aiming for rude you've been hitting it pretty squarely.

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 7:14 PM

After watching Herman Cain's comments on Obama's handling of Libya, I'd like to amend a previous statement: Bachman, Perry, and Cain are in a three-way battle for the dumbest GOP candidates not only in this election cycle, but possibly in history.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov...

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 4:14 PM

bjo,

Rudeness is not my aim, simply put my opinion of the tea partiers AND occupiers is not very high; other than a superficial admiration for their political activeness. Above, Michael seems willing to conflate the two movements. I disagree. I see them collectively as different and opposite sides of the same loud and unrealistic coin.

What neither group seems to understand very well is that the world is much more complicated than their narrow idealism will ever account for.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 3:44 PM

Well, it's sad to see that Michael still can't see that he's wearing the same coat of paint that he tries to put on others. Wouldn't be as sad if he was just commenting on this blog and his "safe haven," instead of trying to "stir the shit" on his daddy's articles like he is now.

I feel bad that Benevolus has been broken down and is being ruder now than he was when he started posting here. Not that I blame him; I can see why he'd get annoyed with a few of the posters on here, especially when they're trolling college students.

-- Posted by bjo on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 2:48 PM

Mickel,

Nevermind the overwhelming majority of the scientific community. Let's go fringe. Muller is perhaps the most well respected global warming skeptic in America (and thereby the world as well). Note that his research is funded by oil companies.

You don't get more objective than straight from the man himself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbR0EPWgk...

Further confirmation...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/opinio...

As you can see, the Huffington Post accurately reported the research and Muller's findings.

By the way...you cite a blog. Nice try with the objectivity charade though.

Regarding emotive assertions...I saw no sources amongst your "emotive assertions" regarding the OWS crowd either. Moreover, if you want me to start posting links of Bachman claiming that HPV vaccinations cause mental retardation, and other delightfully vapid quips, I will be happy to.

The Tea Party candidate of choice is battling Perry for the least intelligent of all those vying for the GOP nomination. This speaks volumes to me about the constitution of the tea party movement itself.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 12:35 PM

Geezer - I didn't say anybody had to stay on topic...I just said it was interesting to note how the thread was getting hi-jacked.

Ben - Obviously you don't think global warming is serious science either. However, there are plenty of misled who do. Our government is putting policies in place to drastically change our lives and hinging these policies on bad science. Light bulbs, electric cars, Solyndra subsidies, etc. These are interpreted by many Americans to be an assault on the American way of life, and on freedoms.

We've lived through bad science scares before - The hole in the ozone (admitted to be a scam by the very scientist who touted the 'danger'), global cooling (documented by an entire issue of National Geographic in the 70's., now debunked) and now global warming; which will ultimately be shown as the hoax it is. Your huffington post link is a great laugh. That's like getting Jeffrey Dahmer to be the national spokesman for Ginsu knives. At least my sources can be considered objective.

Nice smear on the Tea Party...I noticed your emotive assertion without the hinderance of sources.

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 11:48 AM

Wallis

Mickel says we have to stay on topic, well except maybe for you.

-- Posted by Geezer on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 11:13 AM

Mickel,

Apparently you haven't escaped the literacy decline either...I refer you back to the line "serious science curricula."

Also, the climate change scandal ("climategate" as its been called) was completely debunked.And guess who debunked it? Noted climate change skeptic Richard Mueller. The study was funded by oil tycoons, the Koch brothers, who like Mueller have a history of trying to disprove global warming. The Koch brothers affirmed the science behind the study.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/10/31/...

As for your assertions about the tea party. The rampant insanity and galloping stupidity runs right from the ground floor of your "professionally organized" (read: Fox News) movement all the way to Bachman at the tippy top. The Occupiers don't have a leader, but I suspect that if they did s/he would be every bit as clueless as Bachman.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 10:14 AM

"NCLB set the US back decades by all but removing serious science curricula from our classrooms."

A situation duly compensated by lefty ideologues and the liberal media.

Some really fun examples below...

http://www.boston.com/news/science/artic...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesd...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sybil...

Don't lament so; home-schoolers are on the rise, and are getting a very adequate education, thank you. Other areas, such as McCook, don't have a problem with liberal indoctrination and the preaching of ignorance presented as a school curriculum.

The OWS crowd is a far comparison from the Tea Party crowd. One group is organized and funded by professional organizations. One group experienced a myriad of complications within the group such as theft, rape, drug overdose, a death, littering and filth, ignorance and foul mouths. The other group was the Tea Party.

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 9:43 AM

Geezer - Boone Pickens just made a great point. NG in America is less than $4 mcf while in Europe and Asia it is over $14 mcf.

Oil prices in America are $15 bbl less than the rest of the world.

So please explain to me why you attack American oil companies? Our prices are the cheapest in the World yet you attack and attack and attack.

I would think a thank you would be in order.

Wallis

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 6:13 AM

Just finished looking at the picture again Geezer. Then I read the story line. These protesters were asked to vacate the premised repeatedly. They refused and they paid the price, pepper spray.

Why was she protesting? Supposed inequity? Inequity of what? Assuming she was protesting the inequities of net worth between the 1% and us 99%, why isn't she doing something about it? Why isn't donating HER money to the poor. Why isn't SHE donating her time to help the poor? Why isn't SHE donating HER resources to help the poor? Is she waiting for someone to do it for her?

That is why this protest is stupid, nobody doing their part in society to make a real change, hoping someone else does it for them. Stand in a crowd seeing who can scream the loudest doesn't work.

The Lord's time of the year is here, be thankful for what you have and give to those who don't have. Get busy!

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 6:06 AM

And good ole Beno - still trying to justify the absolute clueless left by using that tired leftist ploy of, "both sides" are wrong.

That is crap brother. Nice try, although, it's been done to death.

Any one of the Republican Candidates is better than Obama, any of them.

You seem like you might be half ways normal Beno, it is such a shame to see a good mind go to waste. But Liberalism is a waste, a waste of time, a waste of thought, a waste of money, a waste of talent, a waste of education.

Liberalism simply steals, it produces nothing but failure, and pain.

You Liberals always point to your intentions, and leave failure after failure in your wake.

Look at the trillions you have already stolen from the producers in this country. And yet you Libs still complain about the same damn things you cried about forty years ago. After trillions in transfer of wealth. It is crazy.

Come over to the light Beno. Come over to the truth. Michael Hendricks is too far gone, as you can see. He may never again be capable of rational thought, but you Beno, you still have a chance to heal. Come over to the right Beno. Come over to the light.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 5:53 AM

Hey Michael - fact is, you should really be ashamed of what is going on in the name of leftist thought. You should be striving to be a voice of sanity in current Liberal delusion.

Instead you run to lead fools, and offer tired old Marxist rhetoric disguised as actual thought.

The Tea Party Patriots stand in clear contrast to the vermin occupying your party right now Michael, and you are so empty of reality that you let those parasites speak for you.

Comparing the Tea Party to the Occupy crowd is like comparing Woodstock to the Constitutional Convention. (courtesy of Dave Blount)

The country is growing tired and we are fed up with the left, we are tired of the lies, the double standards, the laziness, the demands, the whining, the fits of temper, the stupidity, the arrogance, we are tired of the left Michael.

We still have a chance to reverse this plague of Liberalism. It's a slim chance, however you leftists have so exposed your deep seeded Socialists and even Communist dreams - your hand is overplayed.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 5:37 AM

Wallis,

Not math. NCLB set the US back decades by all but removing serious science curricula from our classrooms. But math, reading, and writing have been emphasized for nearly a decade, and our math, reading, and writing scores are among the worst in the world for developing countries. Science, though, has suffered the most.

It should be no wonder that when civics, history, science, social studies, art, music, etc., are wholly DE-emphasized and rendered programatically irrelevant across the nation's schools, the result will be legions of uninformed, uncreative, factless drones incapable of behaving like democratic citizens.

To the degree that both the tea partiers and the occupiers are standing up for their beliefs, they should be commended. Involvement is better than indifference. However, both movements are also populated by some of the dumbest, most uninformed, and illogical people to ever voice an opinion in public.

Stupidity is not exclusive to liberalism. Again, I invite you to review many of the conservative posters on this board for further reference.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 12:25 AM

Chunky

Ya sure - typical punkette right?

Do you really believe this 84 year old lady is jealous of someone making more money than her?

Here is an updated link and photo of this dangerous women. I want you to take a good look at her face and remember it every time you spout your BS.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/13393...

-- Posted by Geezer on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 11:21 PM

I guess old women and priests can become unruly as well. The point is, if someone is making more money than you, and that makes you jealous, then either make more money, or be happy with what you have, become unjealous (sic). In other words, get busy.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 10:33 PM

Chunky Peanut Butter

You might want to take a look at the following link just so can include old women and Priests in your rants about the occupy movement.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/13393...

-- Posted by Geezer on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 9:57 PM

So once again, MichaelHendricks proves the party of tolerance only belongs to those who agree with them. Any opposition to that thought, and you become a bigot, racist, homophobic, misogynist, etc etc. Really big of you MichaelHendricks. But really, those of us who know you have come to expect nothing less of you.

In it's very early days, the occupy movement may have represented the anger of bailouts banking executive who failed miserably. But today, the occupy movement is now represented to the slothful children of the upper and upper middle class. They want all the wealth, but not the work that comes with it. They blame the usual suspect, Jews. Not only are they lazy, but they are becoming anti-Semitic in their views.

Could you also define "fascist conservative" please.

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 9:26 PM

Mr. Pot, How nice to see you.

"So, it is odd to me (but not a bit surprising) that in your extremely limited scope view of the world that you see no issues with demanding respect for one movement while doing nothing more than name calling and insulting another movement."

Why do you find this odd, can't people engage in the same behavior you do?

-- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 9:16 PM

It's sad, really Sam.

This path you continue on in your hatred for anything you don't agree with.

I remember a time not so long ago when you would brow beat anyone that didn't show the upmost respect for your beloved Tea Party Patriots. Nevermind that their linking of their movement to the original Tea Party had absolutely no basis in fact (as you are now claiming with the Occupy Movement and Valley Forge).

So, it is odd to me (but not a bit surprising) that in your extremely limited scope view of the world that you see no issues with demanding respect for one movement while doing nothing more than name calling and insulting another movement.

I guess it still hasn't sunk in yet the original founder of today's TEA Party actually supports the Occupy Movement because in earnest the Occupy Movement today has a lot of the same complaints that the original TEA Party movement had.

But you can't allow yourself to believe that can you. In you narrow view anything you believe is right, anything anyone else believes is not only wrong it's evil.

Since you are suddenly interested in telling the true stories of our past, why don't you tell the true story of the original Tea Party? Wait that would actually mean you would have to go through an entire blog without lying.

You often speak of brainwashing yet you don't realize (or don't care) that you have been brainwashed yourself into thinking that your fascist conservative way of thinking is actually shared with most Americans.

Wake up Sam you are having a nightmare.

-- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 7:47 PM

It's interesting to note that some posters have stayed on topic, while others have hi-jacked this "active" thread for their own purposes.

The liberal rust never sleeps.

-- Posted by Mickel on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 1:19 PM

I note that General Washington is praying in the photo. In time of trouble he turned to his God.

How do we react in time of trouble today? Are many of our troubles a direct result of turning away from the Lord?

-- Posted by Boomer62 on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 10:28 AM

Gotta love those oil booms, unless you are a senior citizen. Interesting article on how oil and gas development can change an area.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45292393/ns/...

-- Posted by Geezer on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 7:54 AM

Ben - The Chinese push math and science in their public education system. Is the lack of math and science the dry rot that you are referring?

Wallis

-- Posted by wallismarsh on Tue, Nov 15, 2011, at 6:02 AM

The dry rot of American public education extends as far into conservatism as it does into the Occupy crowd. This board is not without evidence of that.

-- Posted by Benevolus on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 9:20 PM

I just read an interesting account of the boston tea party. Do you think the punks and punketts of todays tea party have a freaking clue as to the real Tea Party? nope

-- Posted by president obama on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 7:29 PM

Here is an interesting report by Senator Coburn you conservatives may enjoy.

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cf...

-- Posted by Geezer on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 6:47 PM

"People are defeated by easy, victorious and cheap successes more than by adversity." Benjamin Disraeli

Look at the reaction they had to the "rain" of job applications whilst occupying in Chicago...

Very telling.

-- Posted by Mickel on Mon, Nov 14, 2011, at 4:33 PM


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