Bringing Down The House

Posted Friday, February 18, 2011, at 1:16 PM
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    I certainly hope the Republicans in Wisconsin stand as well. If they vote for a plan that is unpopular with the citizens they will be voted out of office.

    So in Wisconsin are the Democrats now the "Party of NO!!!!body home"? It's ridiculous that the great leaderships reaction to being outvoted is to "take their ball and go home" or in this case run away from home to avoid the police. Who else runs away to hide from police?

    I really love all the talk about "democracy" and attempts to compare this to Egypt. Democracy occured and then Democrats don't want to abide by it. They are acting against democracy by refusing to vote. These are the political ploys that digust Americans.

    -- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:00 PM
  • For Obama to jump in the middle of this with both feet (both in his mouth) is totally wrong!! He needs to stay out of Wisconson's way and let the state handle it's own problems. Obama sent in his thugs as well as the union thugs that are there now. It's rediculous for teachers who "care" so much for their students, that they shut the schools down in a "sick out". Get a life union members!!! Try working in a real job for once!! Oh...I forgot....Obama is working hard to get rid of those!!

    -- Posted by marcus elvis erogenous on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 2:22 PM
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    A friend of mine who lives in Wisconsin told me that Scott Walker (sic?) was elected on this very platform, and that he is proposing the Union members to pay 12.5% of their 401k and their insurance. How awful for the union members...

    That being said, Ohio is going through much of the same thing, only their deficits run much higher.

    The taxpayers voice has been heard and action is being taken. Thankfully.

    -- Posted by Mickel on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 4:03 PM
  • When I first got out of school,got me a union job..Had two uncles that worked union jobs and they swore it was the best thing going..The only thing I got out of it,was that unions were for people that could not hold a real job..LAZY..Today I just(HATE)"yes strong word" going to a union place,cause it TAKES FOREVER to get anything done...

    -- Posted by orville on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 7:13 PM
  • -- Posted by Damu on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 8:29 PM
  • This broadside comes less than a month after the state's fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact, they say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office.

    -- Posted by Geezer on Fri, Feb 18, 2011, at 9:13 PM
  • Why in the world do either of you feel the Republicans are going to trust alternet or, anymore than you would trust Fox news.


    According to the New York Times, Media Matters initially received "more than $2 million in donations from wealthy liberals.

    mediamatters is owned by liberals" with ties to the Democratic party (including Peter Lewis, Steve Bing, Marcy Carsey, Susie Tompkins Buell, Leo Hindrey, Gail Furman, and James Hormel).[16][17][18] Byron York said Media Matters received an unspecified amount of funding from, and the New Democrat Network.[18]

    AlterNet, a project of the non-profit Independent Media Institute, is a progressive/liberal[1] activist news service. Launched in 1998,

    -- Posted by Keda46 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 12:50 AM
  • Keda46

    I really don't care if Republicans trust Media Matters or not - that is their choice. I use them because of their extensive documented research on the issues (with references) that can be easily validated.

    Following is a link to a Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau Report (required by State Statue) which clearly explains how the Budget Shortfall came about.

    On November 19, 2010, the Departments of Administration and Revenue submitted a report to the Governor, newly-elected Governor, and Legislature that identified revenue projections for the 2010-11 fiscal year and the 2011-13 biennium. That report, required by statute, identifies the magnitude of state agency biennial budget requests and presents a projection of general fund tax collections.

    On December 27, 2010, the administration modified the November 19 report and presented a reestimate of general fund tax collections for 2010-11 and the two years of the 2011-13 biennium.

    Our analysis indicates that for the three-year period, aggregate, general fund tax collections will be $202.8 million lower than those reflected in the November/December reports. More than half of the lower estimate ($117.2 million) is due to the impact of Special Session Senate Bill 2 (health savings accounts), Assembly Bill 3 (tax deductions/credits for relocated businesses), and Assembly Bill 7 (tax exclusion for new employees).

    Compared with the administration's reports, tax collections are projected to be $12.9 million lower in 2010-11, $139.7 million lower in 2011-12, and $50.2 million lower in 2012-13.

    -- Posted by Geezer on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 5:23 AM
  • Dont the people who are going to be affected have the right to protest and speak out. It reminds me of when Obama said the republicans will have to ride in the back of the car and Hannity said, they just want us to shut up and get it the back of the bus. Then he went of a big rant about how he and the others on the right have every right to speak out and they wont be quite.

    Seems like sam did a blog about it at some time if i remember correctly. I guess his love of speaking out and protesting only goes one way. You may not like what they have to say but they have every right to say it.

    -- Posted by president obama on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:34 AM
  • Here are some quotes from a recent study comparing Public and Private Sector compensation over a 20 year period.

    This new report, commissioned by the Center and the National Institute on Retirement Security (NIRS), provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    But even after accounting for the value of retirement, healthcare, and other benefits, state and local employees earn less than private sector counterparts. On average, total compensation is 6.8 percent lower for state employees and 7.4 percent lower for local employees than for comparable private sector employees.

    Beth Almeida, NIRS executive director said, "For a long time, there has been a compensation trade-off in public sector jobs - better benefits come with lower pay as compared with private sector jobs. This study tells us that is still true today." She added, "What's striking is that on a total compensation basis -- looking at pay and benefits -- employees of state and local government still earn less than their private sector counterparts."

    -- Posted by Geezer on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 9:11 AM
  • I guess I should ask better questions. When a link is posted with Fox involved, #1 Do you read it? #2 If you do read it, is it with an open mind? #3 Do you let your biases take over your mind? I know I do sometimes. #4 can you expect them to do any less.

    As far as the private sector making more than Federal, state and local employes, in my humble opinion, they should. The private sector can be fired easier, they work harder, and they ***** less. Tell me you have never seen a state or local road being worked on were there is six hard hats with clip boards standing around while one mexicans working. If you haven't, visit California on any given day, except weekends, and all official holidays, six or eight weeks of paid vacation, paid for by the tax payers, and this might enlighten you. I could go on with other departments, but I think you should get the idea.

    -- Posted by Keda46 on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 10:51 AM
  • -- Posted by Damu on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 2:33 PM
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    @keda64 I'll go to the link and read it. Taking information from one source in this day and age would be pretty silly though. Here is a perfect example...

    In regard to your second statement. I've seen numerous buisness's contracted out by the government doing the same thing. In fact construction isn't the worst. Defense contracting the government does has some of the most amazing wasteful spending of anything they do privately.

    I also think that not everything should go private sector. The recent mess in New York with the snow removal is a fairly prime example of that.

    -- Posted by Damu on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 6:55 PM
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    Well appears therr trying to get some useful cuts through now..

    -- Posted by Damu on Sat, Feb 19, 2011, at 11:14 PM
  • Duma: Why do you keep referring to me as Keda64?

    -- Posted by Keda46 on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 2:07 AM
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    @Keda46 Good question, I don't really have an answer for that. I didn't notice earlier, sorry about that.

    -- Posted by Damu on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 12:52 PM
  • Your forgiven, I shouldn't even have mentioned it.

    -- Posted by Keda46 on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 3:21 PM
  • It seems odd that these people are using their right to free speech and peaceful protests and sam has a problem with that. Guess it all depends on who is protesting and what they have to say.

    -- Posted by president obama on Sun, Feb 20, 2011, at 6:52 PM
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    Maybe I missed it, where did Sam, or anyone say they shouldn't be allowed to protest?

    -- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 10:37 AM
  • So you think he supports the protest or would he rather see them shut up and go back to work?

    -- Posted by president obama on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 12:20 PM
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    I think his preferences are irrelevant. I imagine he doesn't support their protest but that isn't what you said. You said people have a problem with people using their rights. No one said that they shouldn't be protesting as you appear, to me, to have indicated twice.

    Do you find it odd that people on the left criticize people on the right for doing the same thing?

    "Guess it all depends on who is protesting and what they have to say."

    You hit the nail on the head, but like most people you are so focused on making the other side look bad you ignore opposing information.

    -- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 2:19 PM
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    Fox News is reporting teachers' salaries in Wisconsin: $89,500 salary and benefits. The average nonpublic sector worker in America makes $61,000 a year in salary and benefits.

    This is why Gov. Scott Walker has been asking for public sector union employees to be somewhat accountable for their own retirement and pension. You can't milk a turnip.

    I also don't see how a projection of tax revenues is relevant to union pensions. The state is in a deficit ranging in the range of 3.6 billion dollars. A few million in tax revenue isn't going to make a dent in that figure.

    -- Posted by Mickel on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:35 PM
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    Ranging in the range...sorry for the verbage folks.

    -- Posted by Mickel on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 3:36 PM
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    CO...hmmm, perhaps. But putting on rose colored lenses, while making us feel better, certainly doesn't help close the gap. :)

    That being said, I've been reading the report to which geezer supplied a link. One thing the report does not address -- the disparity of private sector job losses vs. Public sector job losses. Also the report takes great pains to compare 'apples to apples'; however, if you compare private school teachers to public school teachers, that is one thing. But where in the private sector are there social workers? Where in the private sector are there department of roads? Water and sewer municipalities?

    Upon further review, considering the source of the report, one tends to wonder whether or not we can rely on 100% objectivity.

    -- Posted by Mickel on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 4:11 PM
  • actually southwest, im the guy pointing it out, not ignoring it.

    Sam seems to think that the Democrats are the only people who are doing evil. The fact is both sides do the same thing to each other and hope that we are dumb enough to see one side and not the other. I would say the right has bamboozled Sham.

    -- Posted by president obama on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 5:11 PM
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    @Keda46 I wanted to add this nonsense onto the "Why its hard to trust fox pile"

    The fact of the matter is both parties aren't representative of the people. They represent corporations. If your not familiar with the term look up plutocracy.

    Heres an interesting letter Citibank wrote about it back in 2005...

    Now, as far as unions go, someone else thought they were a pretty lame Idea as well. I hate to take some of fox news's thunder, but that person was hitler.

    -- Posted by Damu on Mon, Feb 21, 2011, at 9:26 PM
  • Damu: Just to let you know, I don't get my information from fox or any particular place. I was just pointing out that I believe both sides mistrust the others links. If you start looking at the editorial staffs backgrounds far enough, I believe you can find out the way the story will be slanted, or they may take things out of context etc.

    This is only by opinion.

    I wasn't aware of the term plutocracy, ThankYou

    -- Posted by Keda46 on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 12:50 AM
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    I don't recall, but where you commenting in favor of the whole Park 51 protesters?

    -- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Tue, Feb 22, 2011, at 4:50 PM
  • After looking up Plutocracy it said see usage at aristocracy. Aristocracy, oligarchy, and plutocracy are sometimes confused. All mean some form of rule by a small elite. Aristocracy is rule by a traditional elite, held to be made up of 'the best' people, and is usually hereditary. Oligarchy is literally rule by a few. Plutocracy is rule by the (necessarily few) very rich.

    So what I understand is just about anyone in the largest city's with the politics that goes on, that is a judge or above could fit in the category of a Plutocracy.

    Someone help me out on this please, I 'm but a simple layman.


    -- Posted by Keda46 on Wed, Feb 23, 2011, at 10:22 AM
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