Time to Wise Up

Posted Sunday, September 19, 2010, at 4:04 AM
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    Texas has your back Sam. Did I mention I'm rally enjoying your Palin technique of posting? You know just toss something out there but not answer any kind of questions about it. Well done!

    -- Posted by Damu on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 12:28 PM
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    Sam, next time before copying and pasting your lies you should actually look at a Qur'an.

    Quoting from you:

    "Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them." Qur'an 2:191

    First of all you completely misquoted and therefor took out of context what the passage says. In full it reads:

    "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not commit aggression: God loves not the aggressors. SLAY THEM WHEREVER YOU FALL UPON THEM, and expel them from where they had expelled you; apostasy by force is indeed more serious than slaying." 2:189

    Through your selected editing (or more than likely copy and pasting) it does appear to be a violent passage but when it is taken in full context it is telling Muslims to fight in defense of God those who have already attacked.

    Quoting you:

    "Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood." Qur'an 9:123

    Again the language has been changed to provide completely different context. The actual passage reads

    "O believers, fight the unbelievers near you, and them find you harsh, and that God stands with the pious"

    Honestly this sounds very much Bible language.

    Quoting you:

    "When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them." Qur'an 9:5

    This passage does not actually exist. In the Qur'an the 9s end at 9:129 at which point the book of Jonah starts at 10. This passage is made up.

    Again, quoting you:

    "Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable." Qur'an 3:85

    Before I embark on this one let me remind that there several Christian groups that believe the Bible says the same thing. Once again this exact passage does not exist in the Qur'an. The 3s end at 3:200 and begin with the book of Women starting at 4.

    "The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them." Qur'an 9:30 Yet another passage completely made up out of thin air. The Qur'an did treat Islam as the supreme religion but it also recognized Judaism and Christianity as having roles in creating Islam. It treats Jesus, Adam, Moses, and John the Baptist as prophets, just like Muhammad.

    Your apparent translation:

    "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam." Qur'an 5:33

    The real translation:

    "In truth, the punishment for those who make WAR against God and His Messenger, and roam the earth corrupting it, is that they be killed, or crucified, or have their hands and feet amputated, alternately, or be exiled from the land. This would be their shame in the present life, and in the next a terrible torment awaits them - except those who repent before you gain mastery over them. Therefore, you must understand that God is All-Forgiving, Compassionate to each." - Qur'an 5:32

    The passage that is slaughtered by you is actually talking about taking vengeance on those who war against God, not Islam.

    "The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque." Qur'an 9:28

    I would really like to meet who supplied you with these quotes because they obviously have never even opened a Qur'an let alone read it. Here is what 9:28 actually says:

    "O believers, the polytheists (in other words those that believe in more than one God) are indeed a pollution, so let them not approach the Sacred Mosque beyond this year of theirs."

    "Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies." Qur'an 22:19

    Actual text:

    "Here are two rivals who disputed about their Lord. For those blashpened, garments of fire have been tailored, And over their heads is poured scalding water, Melting therewith their innards and their skins. Upon them shall be clasps of iron; Whenever they seek to escape their torment, they are driven back to it:"

    Personally sounds more like a description of Hell to me.

    "Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them." Qur'an 47:4

    Again, this one seems completely made up, paraphrased from the actual text which reads:

    "That is because those who disbelieved followed falsehood, while those who believed followed the Truth from their Lord. Thus does God strike to mankind their parables (notice that last word, a parable is a religious story that is supposed to teach a lesson, it isn't actual action).

    When you encounter the unbelievers, blows to necks it shall be until, once you have routed them you are to tighten their fetters. Thereafter, it is either gracious bestowal of freedom or holding them to ransom ..." 47:2-47:6

    "The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them." Qur'an 8:65

    The only part of this that has any truth to it is the word fight:

    "O Prophet, urge the believers on to the fight. If there are twenty steadfast among you they will overcome two hundred; if there are a hundred of you you they will overcome a thousand unbelievers, for they are a people of no understanding" - 8:63-8:65

    Amazing what happens when you leave context out. This passage is telling the believers that as long as they believed they could overcome a force of ten times their size of unbelievers. They are unknowing because they do not know of the faith.

    "Muslims must not take the infidels as friends." Qur'an 3:28

    As I pointed out earlier this passage if full falsehood and appears nowhere in the Qur'an as the 3s end at 3:200.

    "Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur'an." Qur'an 8:12

    This has to be embarrassing. This is taken so far out of context that whoever invented this forgot to mention that it was God who said that he would terrorize:

    "Remember when God revealed to the angels: 'I am with you, so grant the believers resolve. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. So strike above the necks, and strike their every finger!' For they defied God and His Messenger, and who defies God and His Messenger, God is sever in retributions. Here it is: so taste it! For the unbelievers the torment of the Fire!" Qur'an 8:11

    Finally the last completely made up passage:

    "Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels." Qur'an 8:60

    Here is what 8:60 actually says:

    "Should they incline to peace, incline to it also, and put your trust in God. He is indeed All-Hearing, Omniscient. But if they intend to deceive you, God is sufficient for you. He it was Who vindicated you with His support, and with the believers; and He it was Who brought their hearts together. Had you spent all that is on earth you could not have brought their hearts together, but it was God. Who reconciled them to one another. He is Almighty, All-Wise."

    No mention of any weapons. In fact, the passage is pretty clear that the only weapon they need is God himself.

    Would you like to know why I know you copy and pasted these passages instead of looking them up? Every other place you refer to book as the Koran and yet in the parts where you supposedly quoted the book you called it the Qur'an.

    Next time Sam take some time and actually look at the passages to see what they say.

    The difference between you and me (among the many) is that I respect all religions and try to learn from them all. You fear other religions and will smear them at every point. But even this is over the line for you. It is a straight-out lie about what a holy book says.

    -- Posted by MichaelHendricks on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 3:58 PM
  • I noticed Iggy made no references to the New Testament, from which Christianity is based. I noticed you did not finish in entirety Genesis 22:1-18. Again, this is you the atheist, purposefully misquoting the Scripture, thus taking the entire Bible out of context.

    Consecrate according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary, "dedicated to a sacred purpose". Here you misquoted Scripture, for Exodus 13:1 states "Then the Lord said to Moses". Not, "the Lord said", as you stated.

    I could go on and waste valuable time and space. The point here is that Guillermo will not distinguish the differences between Old Testament, Gods rules, laws, and punishment for the Israelites, and the New Testament, Jesus' path toward salvation for everyone.

    Such is the thinking of the atheist.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 5:57 PM
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    @MH Very nice I thourghly look forward to the reply Sam comes up with for that.

    @CPB Your not even trying anymore. Why is it when you purchase bibles they contain both the old and new testament? Since the old testament doesn't apply anymore shouldn't you guys be throwing that section in the trash? Although, I suppose arguing a point based on "faith" and not actual fact must be fairly difficult.

    -- Posted by Damu on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 9:30 PM
  • "Then the Lord said to Moses", implies the Lord speaks directly to Moses after an event. Whereas "The Lord said", could be twisted into a general statement to all. As is your purpose.

    Atheism as defined by Merriam-Webster; "a disbelief in the existence of deity". And; " the doctrine that there is no deity" Do you fit in this definition, or do you have your own?

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sun, Sep 19, 2010, at 11:01 PM
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    Oh look at that Sam, this is pretty interesting.


    -- Posted by Damu on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 11:35 AM
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    @CPB I was curious what your position is on vestigial organs in the human body?


    How do they work into creationism?

    -- Posted by Damu on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM
  • Guillermo, again your ignorance shines through your fume. Samuel was not a prophet, he was the last judge of Israel. The Book of Samuel was written long before Jesus began his ministry.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 6:10 PM
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    @CPB I was curious what your position is on vestigial organs in the human body?


    How do they work into creationism? Wait is science making these up as well? Did God just design those in for a fun mystery? Does god read the Hardy Boys?

    -- Posted by Damu on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 6:35 PM
  • Iggy,

    Did Jesus Christ, for whom the followers were named, Christians, for whom the New Testament is written, ever preach violence?

    The rules of the Old Testament were written to point out sin and it's consequences. Over and over again, the Old Testament point, out the consequences of sin and how it leads to slavery and death, not only of one self, but of their children as well. Over and over again, God used allowed evil people to carry out their will to teach His chosen people to become aware of their sin.

    The Amalekites were thieves and terrorists as history has shown. They attacked the Israelites as they entered the Promised Land. They continued to attack the Israeli camps, God knew the people of Israel could never live in peace with the Amalekites present. So He had them destroyed, an answer the the long suffering Israeli prayers. Saul did screw up, he allowed the Amalekite king live, and took the best livestock, thus falling out of Gods favor.

    If you had kept up on your Biblical events, you would have known that Jesus came here to complete the laws of the Old Testament. Pointing out the consequences of mans sins and the record of misery because of it. God knew man would never want to stay in the Garden, he knew man would sin, so He gave us the 10 Commandments. If only we could have followed them, we would lead faultless lives. But we couldn't even do that, so He gave us the rules. We saw the consequences of the broken laws. Jesus (God) came to man, as a man, and said, since you were not able to follow the laws, I will give you another choice, FOLLOW ME.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 10:01 PM
  • "What does the time of Jesus's ministry have to do with God commanding King Saul to conduct genocide?"

    Everything, it shows the consequences for sin, versus life with Christ. Life without war, poverty, fear, slavery, etc.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Mon, Sep 20, 2010, at 11:06 PM
  • There were Muslims killed in the attacks on 9-11-01 as well as Christians, Jews, and others. The general Muslim community is not responsible for the actions of radical extremists any more than mainline Christianity is responsible for radical extremists such as Fred Philips from Topeka.

    If one chooses to, there are numerous passages in the Holy Bible that are just as inflamatory as those Sam quoted from the Koran.

    Had the opportunity several years ago to be the on site respresentative for my employer when Islamic and Jewish organizations were each renting seperate spaces at our site for their Schools/worship services on Sunday mornings--they got along fine--did it for two years, never a problem.

    Take the time to get to know Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc before judging them based on far right or far left propaganda.

    I don't agree with the location of the proposed community center near Ground Zero, but I defend to the death their right to build it on their property so long as it conforms to local building codes.

    -- Posted by ontheleftcoast on Tue, Sep 21, 2010, at 7:59 PM
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    I hope you are just trying to make chunky splutter, I thought you at least knew the role of the Old Testament to Christians even if you don't believe it. Also:

    "What does the time of Jesus's ministry have to do with God commanding King Saul to conduct genocide?"

    That is the same God that Muslims follow so why are you defending Islam while attacking Christianity, intellectually, shouldn't you be attacking both and Judaism as well in your posts?

    -- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Wed, Sep 22, 2010, at 3:41 PM
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    Bah, I hate it when you type a bunch of crap then accidentally close it, maybe I'm the only one who does so.

    Anyway I had a long rambling post, as usual, but I'll try to sum up.

    Using the OT to criticize Christianity doesn't work very well. You would be better to criticize based on past events by so-called Christians. However, I don't think it is fair to judge people on historical events that they didn't participate in or at least support.

    You seem to be an adherent of enlightenment ideals, if so would it be fair to judge you based on The Terror?

    -- Posted by SWNebr Transplant on Thu, Sep 23, 2010, at 9:02 AM
  • That made absolutly no sense what so ever.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Fri, Sep 24, 2010, at 11:32 PM
  • Thanks for the insult, but no. It read like someone spent a great deal of time using Google to quickly scan some one else's research, while searching for the biggest words to link his circular arguments. In other words, no original thought here.

    Shouldn't you be at work during your posts? Or are you still unemployed?

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sat, Sep 25, 2010, at 9:27 PM
  • All of you took Sunday off from insulting each other, I'm impressed!

    So come back to us Barbara lewis Hare Krishna Beauregard

    -- Posted by Keda46 on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 12:54 AM
  • A doctoral student, really. Just a few weeks ago you were bragging you were now a part of the LPS system.

    Your arguments are circular in that your claim that Christianity by its nature is violent. My rebuttal, Christianity, the New Testament, by its true nature cannot lead to violence.

    Your argument, look at all the examples in the Old Testament, people were killed by the command of God. My rebuttal, yes, the Old Testament chronicles the sins man committed and the consequences there of. The New Testament, the testimony of Jesus Christ, acknowledges the Old Testament and shows how not to let sin manifests itself into humanity.

    Your argument, that may be so, but how do you reconcile the deaths of the Old Testament? My rebuttal, it happened, now, we as His followers are to live our lives as He instructed, to the letter.

    Your argument, see Christianity is evil.

    As for Google, any bone head with any search skills can find the mind of Inglaterra on the web.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Mon, Sep 27, 2010, at 8:43 PM
  • Only in America can Guillermo Inglaterra go from an education policy wonk in Washington D. C., back to a college student, then a student teacher, and now a grad student! Wow!

    And then he offers up an example of a circular argument, that's really a parallel to my example. That's original even for you.

    Actually I love science, especially when it serves an actual function, like improving the condition of mankind. Medicine comes to mind. Engineering pretty purposeful. Chemistry, that one affects my life daily. Backwards looking science, still a theory, doesn't really interest me at all, it serves no function to better the human condition.

    I guess I'm not really interested in continuing giving you a lesson in religion. I intend to live it. The link to The Pew Research study really is more of a study in theology, rather than religion in general. Christians, real Christians, would probably not have time to study theology, unless they plan to become ministers. They lives should be spent making sure no one goes hungry, naked, poor, uneducated, stranded, abused, isolated, etc.

    You can go one living your life however you see fit, I will live mine out with a function and a purpose.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Tue, Sep 28, 2010, at 10:09 PM
  • Once again Guillermo, thank you for validating my point. By the way, I took the Pew quiz, only missed one.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Wed, Sep 29, 2010, at 6:12 PM
  • Jesus is listed 28 times in the Quran, while Mohammad is listed just 4.

    -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sun, Oct 10, 2010, at 10:21 PM
  • -- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Thu, Oct 28, 2010, at 10:05 PM
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