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Monday, Oct. 20, 2014

Close Call

Posted Friday, January 29, 2010, at 12:15 PM

(Photo)
Several years ago, as a young family man, and young businessman, I recall a day in which I was very lucky. Having already put in a long day, I decided to go ahead a drive to another town for a business meeting I had the following morning.

I was not really aware that I was tired, and as I climbed out of Newcastle WY towards Sundance WY, I dialed up NPR on my radio, and looking forward to a scenic drive in the western Black Hills.

The next thing I remember, I was startled by a rough ride and the car shaking. I had fallen asleep, and so quickly was I off the road. I struggled to bring the car to a stop. Once the confusion was over, and I was awake, I saw that I had stopped about twenty feet from the edge of a small cliff. A few more seconds, and I would have been over the cliff, and dead.

I don't care what you call it, luck, God or providence, that specific place I left the road, was nearly the only place a person could leave the road on that 28 mile stretch of climbs, turns and twists, and not get killed. The incident shook me up.

I took this warning seriously, and worked to make sure it would never happen again. I had a large young family, and people were counting on me. I never play games with being tired behind the wheel. I take alert driving seriously, and I can tell you that I have driven over two million miles since that close call in Wyoming, without incident.

After the speech we heard from President Obama the other night, I got that feeling, down inside, on just how much of a CLOSE CALL this country just had with Barack Obama and the radical progressives.

I don't think we realize just how close our Republic came to being destroyed by this bunch. Oh, they have still done tremendous damage, and that damage will have to be repaired. It will be painful, but, for the first time since the insanity with Obama and the progressives began, I think our country may survive this.

I am not talking about Democrats and Republicans here, I am talking about life, and freedom, and liberty, and prosperity. All were targeted by the progressives, in both parties, but Glory Hallelujah, the American people are seeing the light.

In fact my friends, I am thinking about becoming a Democrat, because frankly, I don't see all that much difference in the parties. One party wants Socialism out the wazoo, and the other party thinks they can give us Socialism light, or friendly Socialism. At least as a Democrat, maybe I can reason with folks who suffer from indoctrination.

In the end, it will be brave Democrats that will stop Obama and his narcissistic insanity, not Republicans. It has been Democrat states, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Virginia which have stood in opposition to this progressive coup.

Hey folks. You listen up! We had a very close call. Because we acted stupidly, we put our country at risk. We put the lives and fortunes of our children at risk for our little foray into the progressive world. We need to learn from this.

How many more times will we be seduced by the smooth lying tongues of the libs/progressives? C'mon! Wise up already.

It should be fairly simple. Liberal and progressive politicians who promise you everything, when given power, will take everything you have.

We can learn from our close call, but more than that, we must learn.


Comments
Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

Ebb and flow is a quintessential element of American politics. And having a legislative/executive majority is not necessarily a good thing for either side. I've seen sloth and arrogance from either side of the aisle when there comes a majority, and then the majority develops a sense of entitlement.

It is key for the American people to remain diligent and stay active. Find the truth on issues, and vote. Sign petitions, make phone calls and send emails. It all matters.

I want to thank the 40 Republicans in the Senate who stood fast in the face of the Dem supermajority...and held it together. Without you, the election of Scott Brown may not have had any meaning at all.

-- Posted by Mickel on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 12:38 PM

While I think you are a bit Chicken-Little-all-the-time I do appreciate the statement about there being not much difference between the parties. This is how I feel completely. There are a few social issues that differ, but I think the greed-inspired lack of regard for America itself, and subsequent criminal pillaging of ourselves and the world, are factors that keep the Democrats and Republicans one big happy family.

In my opinion I don't feel like much was saved by stopping the evil satanic demonic baby-eating progressives just in the nick of time! Because it looks like most of the damage is already done. And I'm not talking about one year of Obamunist Stalin Mao Commie aarrrgh! There have been miscalculations, and our American civilization is already in decline. The sad part is that by the time we actually made some headway in civil rights, headway towards actually following the verbage in the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, our country is in decline.

As poorer countries get richer our country will continue to get poorer as the globe catches up with industrial, high tech, and military standards set by us and our allies.

China owns our treasury bonds and there is an organized and growing network of terror groups with our deaths in their hearts. We the People have sat around for years complacent as the internet waters us down and polarizes us more. All of this time, the futures of our bloodlines have been gambled with and even sold.

So I guess it depends on your definition of destroyed. Sam says we were almost destroyed by progressives taking away our liberty. Can it also be argued that with such a sensitive threshold of destruction, that we are destroyed already? Is it arguable that our future generations are destroyed? Either by the fiscal liberalism of late or the military-industrial liberalism and provocative foreign policies of years of Pub rule? I think it is arguable that the price of warring with liberty and impunity has a longer lasting price tag than a money figure in a shrinking economy.

I think the rats in Washington have the same common goals. Rush Limbaugh and Sam just serve to keep the smokescreen going so we can't see the Dems and the Pubs serving themselves and themselves only. I think we are so tapped that all we have to do is declare one more war and we're goners. "Destroyed."

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 12:59 PM

It is one thing to pay for the mistakes I make, the problem I have is when I am told I have to pay for the mistakes others make. So many of the problems people face are self inflicted.

Since the liberals have screwed things up so badly economically, the only way out is capitalism. The only way out of this mess will be less government, less taxes and less regulations. Sooner or later, we'll have to turn to these things in order to survive.

Mickel spoke of the ebb and flow. I agree somewhat, but this turn to the ultra left was a bit more than ebb and flow, don't you think? The past Presidential election was a result of propaganda, misinformation and money from dubious sources. Then there is the ACORN and union fraud tactics.

Sam, as for you becoming a Democrat, why not? They need some conservative thinking over there. In the end, we will both probably vote for the most conservative candidate.

-- Posted by Leo.Pold on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 1:11 PM

Unregulated capitalism has caused way too many problems. Like exploitation, war, outsourcing of our jobs, and pollution. There needs to be rules. Humankind needs laws, we can't just trust the good hearts of humans with massive business interests.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 1:18 PM

Ah yes Joe, Bin Ladin says America needs to be destroyed becuase of global warming. I wondered who it was that Bin Ladin was talking to? Do the Islamic Nazis need any further reason to hate America?

Really, is there some dude in Iran, who has never caught on to the "kill the infidels" mantra of the Muslim extremists, now ready to strap a bomb to his privates over global warming?

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:09 PM

Bin Laden actually was calling for action about dealing with global warming and not speaking about religious subjects. This is obviously a ploy by his ultra-conservative terrorist organization to win over some progressive thinkers in the Islamic world. It's rediculous.

Either way, just because this roach agrees with scientific inferrences doesn't mean they aren't something to address. Rush Limbaugh's theory on the global warming issue is probably not the smartest way to go, albiet the easiest for some of you.

Unregulated capitalism has destroyed the economy of the United States with the outsourcing of hundreds of thousands of jobs. Al Gore OR Bin Laden couldn't get close.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:11 PM

"Maybe he can convince algore to strap on a bomb?"

For pursuing the issue of global warming? That's harsh. And I don't smoke drugs, that's the difference between us I guess.

So it's wrong to call radical Islam (religiously) ultra-conservative? I mean, ?????????????

there. ????????? ooh that's fun! ?????? !!!!!!

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:26 PM

Jaded - I would warn that big government is far more dangerous than big business.

Just where has there been unchecked capitalism?

Do you not see the hundreds of millions that have died as a result of leftist thinking? Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Castro, Chavez, and on and on.

So where are the great Capitalists that have killed hundreds of millions of people?

My friend, you have bought into typical leftist crapola. The libs/progressives promote wrong ideas about capitalism so that you'll submit to their control.

Right now in America, we have problems because government is out of control, not business.

It is government greed that has run amok. You may need to examine your real motives. Are you against those who have it better than you? It is an unfairness that the government needs to correct, when someone has more than you?

And you are wrong to call Bin Ladin an ultra conservative. You need to properly learn about the political spectrum, not the one you're indoctrinate with in state indoctrination centers (schools) with, but the real life political spectrum.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:37 PM

I have zero problem with that Joe. We should have killed him DEAD when we had him instead of going to Iraq in the name of massive business interests.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:38 PM

So, business interests don't run our government?

And I don't want the government to correct it when someone has more than me, that's lame.

I want a system of rules to be in place to prevent unchecked corporate activity that drains our economy of jobs and buys legislation. I don't think that is "crapola." I thinnk it's right.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:43 PM

I am becoming surprised by the amount of things Joe and I can agree on all of the sudden. You see, you can't put people in a box. Being a bigot is but one quality of many.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:45 PM

What business interests did we go to Iraq for? Oil? Why didn't we take the oil then?

For whatever reasons we went into Iraq it was not for business interests. That is the standard libs/progressives talking point, and it is a flat lie, like almost all leftist thinking.

Before you act like Guillermo or Carl, and blurt out something stupid like Halliburton,

let me point out that ACORN and corrupt labor unions have received thousands of times more coin than Halliburton ever got. AND Halliburton produces something of value. Who do you think put out all those oil fires started by Hussein in the first Gulf War?

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM

Ah jeeeez, OK Sam, whatever. (haha)

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:52 PM

Jaded - Again, I don't know where you get such crazy notions!

They reason businesses leave the USA to go abroad is GOVERNMENT abuse. Over taxation and over regulation. Jobs went overseas because leftists in our government drove them out of the country.

It is a plain as the ears on Obama's head bro!

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:56 PM

I forgot to say thanks for your time and debate. I do appreciate it.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 2:58 PM

I think it's a shame big business wasn't regulated enough. We regulated businesses so that Americans can enjoy some level of reward, as opposed to the old days when we employed children and paid people pennies for their work. We should have made it harder tax-wise to outsource as well.

But with zero regulations on big business you can't really think that everything would be alright for the common man, right? Whether they are paying an American $40,000 a year or a Malaysian $5,000 a year, their main goal is to put all of the money at the top and eliminate as many below as possible.. more is never enough and that's why we need rules. Otherwise we can become as 3rd world as what you are wishing for.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 3:13 PM

That was a campaign GOAL. He was obviously stupid enough to think the Republican party would play ball instead of gridlocking our country's legislative branch for.. well, a year now!

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 3:14 PM

Ever read "the jungle" by upton sinclair? Had the workers been treated farily to begin with there would be no unions.

-- Posted by president obama on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 5:42 PM

Here is a link to an interesting Canadian documentary about corporations, their legal status, and their universal goal. There are 23 segments, so I doubt many will watch, but those that do will likely see corporations in a different light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pin8fbdGV...

-- Posted by Brian Hoag on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 8:23 PM

"Since the liberals have screwed things up so badly economically," LeoPold

-------------------------------------

"You want to label Osama? Fine! How about "filthy, roach-infested, goat****ing murdering slime!" That would work fine too?"

-- Posted by Joe Buck

----------------------------

Do you not see the hundreds of millions that have died as a result of leftist thinking? Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Castro, Chavez, and on and on.

So where are the great Capitalists that have killed hundreds of millions of people?

Right now in America, we have problems because government is out of control, not business.

And you are wrong to call Bin Ladin an ultra conservative. -- Posted by sameldridge

--------------------------

Leo --

Testimony from the Bush nominated Director of the Congressional Budget Office before Congress, this month.

"Had the fiscal policies of the Clinton administration remained in place, the United States government would be totally DEBT FREE in 2010."

Question from Mr. Edwards of Texas, "What was the Gross Federal Debt as of Jan. 20, 2009?"

Director's answer--"Effectively total debt as of Jan. 1, 2009 was more than $11-Billion."

Mr. Edwards -- "And as of January 1, 2010"

Director, "Effectively $12-Billion."

Mr. Edwards--"The years 2001-2008 saw a difference of $11-Billion in federal debt due to the scrapping of Clinton fiscal policies?"

Director-- "Yes."

AFTER LEO, the GAZETTE is uplifted by Jose Buck's highly literate, restrained diatribe.

Clearly, if Jose had a brain, he would be dangerous. But there is litle possibliity he will ever reach that state of competence.

------------------------------

Sam,

The record is Stalin was a totalitarian dictator waging war against his nation's people behind the cloak of feigned communism.

He was Hitler's mortal enemy.

Hitler slaughtered tens of millions during his Third Reich, which had practices not even remotely approaching socialism. Hitler was a totalitarian military dictator.

Lenin was a Communnist and other than open Civil War combat against the Czar's murderous, despotic regime -- at the termination of hundreds of years of brutal "imperial Russia rule by terror and liquidation -- Lenin left no record of unrestrained slaughter of innocents.

Mao was simply a modern form ot the anciet Chinese war lord culture. Mao espoused communism as a means of securing Russian weaponry and support for his drive to control.

There were no elections or any other signs of "popular rule" which is a basic for Marxism.

Mao and his ruling clique were responsible for 25-40-Million deaths.

Castro -- another military dictator, with no semblance of true popular rule. Responsible for many deaths, although not to the point of any notable increase over Bautista.

Chavez -- Actuially has been less bloody than several Venezulan conservative governemtns, while following in the pattern of typical Latin American military dictators -- seeking popular support by continually espousing socialist changes. [A la Juan and Evita Peron] To date, except for a few crumbs, Chavez has clearly diverted billions in oil income, while distractin his own people and outsiders with Socialist rhetoric.

Thare is no serious evidence that Chavez will do litttle beyond siphoning wealth and encouraging drug gang submarines.

For modern murderers, don't forget Pol Pot, Idi Amin, the Somozas, Bautista, Juan Peron an several other Latin American dictators -- several propped up by the CIA, along with several dozen likr minfd.

If you guys actually stuck to facts and pursued truth, it would be a miracle.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 9:06 PM

Guillermo - Did the Marxist professor that you rely on for talking points take a vacation? What a lame response you had - WOW!

We are not struggling in America with the corruption of business you lame brain! It is the corruption of the Democrat Party, the corruption of the legal system, the corruption of the ACLU, the corruption of public education, the corruption of the unions, the corruption of the green movement that has things fouled up.

You and your kind need business to fund you, because you'll never produce anything of value, and most likely you'll feed at the public tit all your life.

_____________________

Big Dawg - I do like it when you post a comment, I just wish for once, you'd make a good one.

Your premise is wrong. Christ clearly illustrated this in the parable of the vineyard. It was greed in the hearts of the workers that caused problems, and the whole issue of fairness was brought up because one man envied another mans' good fortune.

I know there is constant propaganda out there from the left, I guess I am somewhat surprised that it continues to find such a receptive audience!

Jaded American - what planet are you living on?

It is not Republicans that have gridlocked anything. The Democrat Party could have done whatever. They had the votes, the problem was Obama and his radical progressives. They thought every Democrat wanted the destruction of our Republic, and that every Democrat had drank the progressive Kool Aid.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:09 PM

Sam, I looked up Upton Sinclair, the leftist holy man that bigdog quoted, and found that he was a Socialist a ACLU creep. In 1951 it was Upton Sinclair that said that the American people would take socialism, just not the label. Gee Willikers Batman! The man was a liberal wacko. Bigdog, you need to read better books. Try reading Rogue Nation by Sarah Palin. You may learn something of true value.

-- Posted by CandyKilroy on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:22 PM

Candy, thanks gal, I did not realize that about Upton Sinclair, but I am not surprised. Perhaps it was required reading in dawgs classroom, as they looked for something other than the Constitution to read! Nice to hear from you.

Wow! I just looked up this Sinclair nut. WOW! What a moron. He founded a Socialist Utopian cult...in New Jersey of all places! This guy was David Koresh without the sawed off shotgun. If only Janet Reno had been around back then, she'd have showed him who is boss, eh?

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:35 PM

"Try reading Rogue Nation by Sarah Palin. You may learn something of true value."

pfffft. Sorry I actually had a good chuckle! Thanks Candy!

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:40 PM

You guys are awesome. I love you guys. So much education here, burn colleges.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:43 PM

You find something out about a person then their whole live work is garbage? I would love to look into your past so I could callously disregard anything you have ever done or ever will do. Sarah Palin is a quitter who had a became a grandmother by an out of wedlock baby. I think the bible says people like her should be stoned to death.

I have bad news for you kiljoy, everyone has done things you may not like or agree with but does that make them wrong? To take a classic piece of literature and trash it really shows me just how ignorant you are.

-- Posted by president obama on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:48 PM

It was not a classic doggie, it was a socialist manifesto that took advantage of poor people for political gain, just like you little liberals do now. I mentioned Sarah Palin because I know how you liberal babies will react to the very mention of her name.

-- Posted by CandyKilroy on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:54 PM

Agreed. And that hurts, because I hate to agree with racists, but this is not a racist issue. I agree Joe, you mean little possum, you.

My main points of belief are basically the moral opposition to unfettered greed (unregulated capitalism) and warmaking with impunity.

Especially when we have bright minds churned to compost until they believe that the Iraq war was not motivated by the ethics of greed.

So, Joe, I gotta say... ??????????

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 10:57 PM

Sarah Palin demands $100,000 to speak at the Tea Party. She quit on her constituents. Quit the Governorship. She works for a propaganda network and tours her books. She is a celeb-flake. You still swallow that yucky load. But you also swallow Rush Limbaugh, so what has changed, except for the lovable celeb who thinks Africa is a country?

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 11:01 PM

Joe, do smart again. I was blown away by it.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 11:02 PM

Bigdawg - you're a funny guy. Sarah Palin is a super lady, and you have probably never met one. Do real women scare you dawg? Nice to see you are such a student of the Bible. Did you miss the "do not murder" and "do not steal" parts in the Bible during you vast study? You support those who steal and kill, why?

Candy, liberals and progressives are easy to predict, and Sarah scares them. She scares them because they know she speaks the truth, and the truth is something liberals can not abide. You were right to out big dawg on his phony intellectualism.

Buck ole boy, you are right! Sinclair and his Utopian commune did go up in flames. Maybe Reno's grandma did it?

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 11:14 PM

OK. Joe I would stop calling you names, but you have been overtly racist in the past and when I said something your hostility grew. I told you I am a black man. I was polite. You were even more of a jerk. If you would have apologized for showing your feelings of disgust with blacks, I would lay off. But you sir are a proud racist.

What's wrong with showing disapproval of an elected official who quits their elected post for celebrity? Am I being mean? If Heinemann quit and took a job at a cable network I would dis him just the same. Please stop acting like an angry skinhead teen.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 11:18 PM

Jaded - such righteous indignation against Sarah Palin! You apparently have no problem with AL WHORE, making a billion bucks with lies. Sorry pal, your indignation stinks.

I understand the jealousy, after all the best lookin gal you guys have on your side is Hillary. No wonder most gays are Democrats.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Jan 29, 2010, at 11:20 PM

Sam you dog! I like you. Sexual politics, both ways, twice in 2 days even! Good man!

-- Posted by Jaded American on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 12:32 AM

No, they dont scare me. I feel like she should have been staying home taking care of her FAMILY. Isnt the the way its supposed to work in your world? Why have all of these children only to have them be looked after by someone else?

The jungle was written in the early 1900's and is still in print today. It is a work of fiction based on what Sinclair witnessed in chicago. If Sarah Palins book is still in print 2 yrs from now I will be shocked. The Jungle is over 100 yrs old and still being printed.

Thats part of whats wrong with you people, your memory is short. The fact you had to look up the author and the book tells me more then i cared to know about you.

I grow weary of debating with morons, I think its time to hang it up.

-- Posted by president obama on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 7:43 AM

To the contrary Guillermo, you show your ignorance once again. The interstate highway systems were designed to move freight. That is why the railroad fought against the interstate systems and trucking. The only fraud being displayed is you Guillermo. You are hollow instrument of dying ideas, your like a flute that can only play one note, and that one note is off key. When you first starting harassing Sam because you could not defeat his ideas, you claimed you were not a Socialist, now you proudly proclaim Socialism's alledged virtues. Sam is probably right on the money with you. You are most likely on course to supp at the taxpayer's breast the rest of your life.

-- Posted by Leo.Pold on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 1:15 PM

Hey Big Dawg - I'm thinkin' that you may be proving my point about indoctrination versus education in public education.

Im wondering, did you ever read the works of some of America's great producers, like Henry Ford? Ever read anything JC Penny or Robert Fulton wrote? Oh wait a minute, that's right, these people produced things, employed people and change lives. They did not have time to enjoy "great thinking" and whine about the unfairness of life.

Your Socialist Guru Sinclair built communes and labored to steal money from producers to enrich himself. He was kind of the prototype community organizer, wasn't he?

Cwaazeee liberals - you bemoan the horrors of a growing America, while your heroes plot to steal life, liberty, freedoms and resources even as we talk.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 5:51 PM

Leo - a flute, capable of only playing a lone sour note, is accurate to describe Guillermo.

Funny how we both can smell a future government bureaucrat. Or worse, a future Marxist college professor.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 6:02 PM

I would like to ask bigdawg a question. Upton Sinclair wrote about the rich, spending their money for a party that cost more than hard working people make in a year.

There are many reports out there to show that Speaker Nancy Pelosi spent over $100,000 of taxpayer money for alcohol aboard her private military jets. She average over a $1000 a week in booze. That is more money than many many hard working folks make in a week.

www.sondrak.com/index.php/weblog/nanshy-...

Look at the money that the mostly liberal delegation of hundreds spent going to Copenhagen. They spent millions of dollars, rooms at $4,400 dollars a night. More than many many hard working people make in a month.

How do you bigdawg, as a voice promoting Upton Sinclair, defend what your choice for political leadership is doing? Is this nonsense somehow better because it is a liberal politician doing it? The rich scoundrels Sinclair wrote about were at least using their own money. You might cry that they stole the money from the workers. Is that somehow different when government officials steal the money? That is better for us?

I must agree with Sam, having been taught all about Upton Sinclair in college, but now that I think about it, I don't think I ever learned a damn thing about J.C. Penny. Without even looking up J.C. Penny, I can almost guarantee that Penny had a much more positive influence on the world, than Upton Sinclair.

-- Posted by backgammon on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:07 PM

Guillermo Inglaterra, Future telemarketer?

-- Posted by Chunky Peanut Butter on Sat, Jan 30, 2010, at 11:08 PM

Henery Ford, the person who built one of the first modern auto assembly plants in Russia? Who recieved the highest award a civilian can recieve from the Nazi's for his support? That Ford Sam?

-- Posted by president obama on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 12:10 PM

try this link

www.marketwire.com/press-release/Judicia...

I'll gladly debate Henry Ford v. Upton Sinclair if you want.

Answer my question bigdawg, or why not be honest with us all. Admit that you are a Socialist or worse. Just admit it, and we can move forward from there.

-- Posted by backgammon on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 4:45 PM

well, I guess I will start by saying that I dont get to vote in the california senate elections, nor do i get to vote for the speaker of the house.

I am not defending it. Just dont pretend that the conservatives dont do the same thing.

The point I was making about Ford is that im sure he has done alot of great things and Im not going to pass judgment on his whole life like the posters have done here to sinclair.

Sinclair is a socialist, ergo everything he has ever written or done is bad.

Ford was a nazi sympathizer, ergo everything he has ever written or done is bad.

people passing judgment in a book they have never read. wow. The narrowminds at work

-- Posted by president obama on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 7:26 PM

Jose,

Nice to see you deciphered the $12-Billion.

Maybe next month, you will figure the reason a DEBT FRREE nation under the Clinton policies is slightly better than $11-Trillion total debt while DubYah was still in office.

Of course, you fail to understand the deficit spending within the current administration has been in a effort to stop DubYah's deep recession.

Spent the weekend in an investor's conference, where numbers mean something.

We had one individual frantically raving against the president the first day.

When dozens of serious businessmen insisted upon pointing out to him that the current crisis of home foreclosures and the looming and massive commercial real estate foreclosures are a direct result of the nation having a massive debt, instead of being debt free this year, he accused every millionaire who disagred with his diatribe of being members sof a pack of Socialists.

Two hundred conservative, independent businessmen and investors suddenly proclaimed Socialists -- Probably one of the funniest lines any of us had heard.

I had to ask if he had ever lived out on the Northern Plains regions of Nebraska and Kansas.

Fellow at my table for two days was a former pro athlete who bankrupted out of his restaurant in New England about five years back.

He is now worth somewhere in excess of $10-MILLION and got a great laugh from being labeled a Socialist by a fellow who arrived in a vehicle with a racing dog painted on the side.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Sun, Jan 31, 2010, at 9:22 PM

I have never read such garbage as you are putting out there.

Propaganda pure and simple..I have read the ramblings of narrow minded, closed minded, and those to lazy to do their homework and it is gettting ridiculous..

We are fortunate that the minority refused to believe the majority who ranted and raved that 'the world was flat, and therefore we must never venture to far out into the ocean.'None so blind as he who will not see..He who will not seek the truth.

We are in Iraq because Bush and Cheney are liars and snakes in the grass. They deceived some in Congress and some of the American people into believing Iraq attacked us..You now know that was a lie. Bush admitted Iraq played no part in 9/11 after he got his war.

Do a fact check and you find that Bush senior, Regan, and that fool Bush Jr. when in office, ran our deficit higher than democrats ever did, ran our country into the ground,Democrats take over and it is they who must dig us out of the messes left by the wingnuts.

I prefer fact over propaganda bull.

-- Posted by Debra Istvanik-Strotman on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 12:18 AM

Yes, wars are expensive. Especially if you are winging it here and there (warfare)

Consistent warmaking has cost us more than "socialism."

-- Posted by Jaded American on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 7:50 AM

"...Bush senior, Regan, and that fool Bush Jr. when in office, ran our deficit higher than democrats ever did, ran our country into the ground..."

Sorry that post was meant to have this quote from Debra.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 7:52 AM

Debra - welcome. After reading your comments, I think you'll fit right in with the other confused progressives.

Of course, your comments were 100% BS, but since this was your first comment, I'm gonna let you off with just a warning.

Example of BS? The Bush spending compared the Obama spending. Your statement is in direct opposition to the truth. What Bush spent in 8 years was way to high, but Obama spent as much in ONE year, with promises to spend more.

No propaganda on this blog until we got to your comments Debra, you had the propaganda, not me.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 11:01 AM

HEY GEARJAMMER,

Contact the Congressional Budget Office --

Bush increased the national debt from $4.5-Trillion on Jan. 20, 2001, with the active fiscal policies reducing the debt at least $500-Billion or a half a Trillion -- annually.

over ten more years, 2001 through 2010 -- that policy would have cleared the national debt.

Instead, Jan. 20, 2009 -- the National Debt was $11-Trillion-plus, as of Jan. 15, 2010 -- the national debt was $12-Trillion.

Anyway you run all your fingers and toes, that amounts to a trillion annual increase with Bush.

All of the 2009 increase in the national debt, with the exception of the Stimulus Package at $75-Billion -- was carry over from Bush/Cheney.

Impacting the debt in minor levels --

The First Time Home Buyers Refund, the Clunkers Rebate and the 25 incremental tax cuts for average people, plus the one-time individual income tax refund.

With all that, reduction of Combat Forces in Iraq and 35,000 more troops in Afghanistan -- 2009 saw a debt increase of just under ONE TRILLION.

The crunch comes when we go back to paying off that $11-Trillion, plus anymore it costs to get the economy back in gear.

Returning sound fiscal policy to reducing the gross national debt by HALF A TRILLION annually -- Will require at least 25 years to pay off. Compare to the ten-year payoff designed and implemented under President William Jefferson Clinton -- aka Fastest Zipper in the White House.

You'll need to borrow a friend or relative's fingers to calculate the total cost of Gross Debt, with interest during the next 25 years -- if my kids and grandkids are actually paid out by then. You can start at $20-Trillion -- there are more than a few international bankers who are saying $30-Trillion and UP -- way UP.

Today another 30-40 people were killed by suicide bombers in Iraq.

Afghans and U.S. and Allies'military personnel are dying almost daily in Afghanistan.

We are losing people daily in both countries because, it was decided:

1) To pull our forces out of Afghanistan before the job was done in 2002, diverting the Tenth Mountain Division from the area they were trained for -- and have been training to work in for 30 years or more since reactivating in Alaska and then being relocated to Ft. Drum, N.Y.

2) Operate a budgeted war against Sadaam, meaning when the Abrams tanks, both Marine and Army made the 100-hour dash to Baghdad, they did not have time or people to secure the masses of artillery shells, aerial bombs, RPGs, infantry crew-served weapons, personal assault rifles, sub-machine guns, etc., etc.

Those unsecured materials supplied Iran, the remains of Sadaams die hards, Al Qaeda and just about anyone wandering around the desert for nearly a month.

Rumsfeld's bookkeepers' war was just as effective as McNamara and His Whiz Kids. They both failed.

[The tragedy -- Rummie ducked active service throughout the Viet Nam era, as did Shotgun Cheney and Air National Guardsmen -- DubYah Bush and Danny Quayle. They had the nightmare example from McNamra's corporate expertise with Viet Nam, and still followed their bull headed course.]

Anyway you try to spin it -- the Congressional Budget Office is reporting with all of Bush's bailout expenses and all the deficit military spending in Iraq and Afghanistan --

The first year of President Obama's administration saw a reduction in annual gross debt increase.

Sam, until you come up with PROOF the Republican appointed Director of the Congressional Budget Office is a lying syncophant for President Obama -- You either come up with proof of your prevaricated attacks against the PRESENT PRESIDENT --or shut up.

Better yet, stick to writing the good stuff.

Only for someone's sake, do not stress the good hearts of those Idaho Baptists who thought they could take 30 undocumented children out of Haiti.

Ol' Tater Salad -- Ron White his own self will be happy to explain -- "YOU CAIN'T FIX STUPID OR NAIVE."

As a Gearjammer, you should well know what road is paved with good intentions, no education in proper legal procedures and being totally guided by faith.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 5:48 PM

Sam, until you come up with PROOF the Republican appointed Director of the Congressional Budget Office is a lying syncophant for President Obama -- You either come up with proof of your prevaricated attacks against the PRESENT PRESIDENT --or shut up.

You are clueless but I have no doubt right winger will buy into your bull without ever looking at the facts.

-- Posted by Debra Istvanik-Strotman on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 6:31 PM

I understand Debra that you drank the Kool Aid. Bush's proposed shortfall for his last year in office was 480 to 500 Billion. Obama's first year shortfall was 1.4 trillion. And that does not take into consideration the money that has been pledged.

If facts don't matter to you, so be it. Millions of people that were working under President Bush are now unemployed under Obama. Good luck with that spin, unless you are going to still try and blame Bush.

It is not my fault that the bloom is off your phony hero Obama. The guy is an ideologue, and and radical, and I care about my country.

You are much like Hank, that lets his hatred of Republicans cloud his entire thinking. I have nothing against Obama personally. I suppose he is a nice guy. If you can call a guy that wants to destroy our Republic as nice. If you can call someone nice, that has never held a real job, never ran anything of value, never produced anything of value, yet feels he can tell us all how to live.

Obama and the progressives are a danger to our Republic. He needs to be opposed at almost every turn, becuase he is so radical. He cannot be trusted to do the right thing, he has shown that.

It is not Republicans and Democrats with me Debra, it is America, freedom and liberty versus the progressives. The Republicans keep wimping out to the leftists in the party, and the Democrats have been hijacked by some sort of weird religious leftist goon squad of wackos.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Mon, Feb 1, 2010, at 7:16 PM

"Obama and the progressives are a danger to our Republic. He needs to be opposed at almost every turn, becuase he is so radical. He cannot be trusted to do the right thing, he has shown that.

It is not Republicans and Democrats with me Debra, it is America, freedom and liberty versus the progressives. The Republicans keep wimping out to the leftists in the party, and the Democrats have been hijacked by some sort of weird religious leftist goon squad of wackos."

-Sam

This is propaganda, right? Just wondering because to me it looks like propaganda.

"You are clueless but I have no doubt right winger will buy into your bull without ever looking at the facts."

-Debra

Would you be willing to point out the clueless bull? So far everyone tells Hank he's a wacko, ect. but doesnt attempt to take out any of his points. Like Sam. I'd like to see someone argue him with more than a brush-off insult.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 7:57 AM

Carl, I am not a propagandist, because I tell the truth.

Poor super educated Guillermo, did not know the difference between profit and greed.

You Carl, don't know the difference between truth and propaganda.

It takes years of educational malpractice and indoctrination to get that confused I suppose. I am sorry that you hate Rush Limbaugh so. Do you find that you normally hate anyone who tells you the truth?

At least you are consistent with traditional leftists. You accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. Clinton was good at it. Barack and gang are masters at it.

If I have told any lies, then point them out!

-- Posted by sameldridge on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 10:22 AM

You just said that Rush Limbaugh speaks the truth. There's one.

-- Posted by Jaded American on Tue, Feb 2, 2010, at 10:26 AM

Gearjammer,

ANOTHER GREAT DUBYAH SUCCESS!!

Border fence plagued by glitches, long delays

PHOENIX (AP) -- An ambitious, $6.7 billion government project to secure nearly the entire Mexican border with a "virtual fence" of cameras, ground sensors and radar is in jeopardy after a string of technical glitches and delays.

Having spent $672 million so far with little to show for it, Washington has ordered a reassessment of the whole idea.

Ultimately, the project could be scaled back dramatically, with the government installing virtual fences along a few segments of the nation's 2,000-mile southern boundary but dropping plans for any further expansion, officials said.

"The worst that happens is that we have a system which gives us some value but we conclude that it's not worth buying any more of it," said Mark Borkowski, the government's director of the project at U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

The first permanent segment of virtual fence -- a 23-mile stretch near Sasabe, Ariz. -- was supposed to be turned over to the Border Patrol by the main contractor, Boeing Co., for testing in January, but the handover has been delayed by problems involving the video recording equipment.

The Bush administration launched the project in 2005 to help secure the border against illegal immigrants, drug smugglers and other intruders. It was conceived as another layer of protection, in addition to thousands of Border Patrol agents and 650 miles of real fences.

The system was supposed to let a small number of dispatchers watch the border on a computer monitor, zoom in with cameras to see people crossing, and decide whether to send Border Patrol agents to the scene. Although there are sensors, cameras and radar at many points along the border, they are not connected to cover large expanses.

Originally, the virtual fence was supposed to be completed by 2011; that date has slipped to 2014, largely because of technical problems.

Among other things, the radar system had trouble distinguishing between vegetation and people when it was windy. Also, the satellite communication system took too long to relay information in the field to a command center. By the time an operator moved a camera to take a closer look at a spot, whatever had raised suspicion was gone.

The Homeland Security Department and Boeing said the early problems were fixed, but other glitches keep popping up. The latest: a software bug that causes video recording devices to lock on to the wrong cameras, hindering agents trying to collect evidence against illegal border-crossers.

The government is trying to negotiate a deal with Boeing to let the Border Patrol begin using the first permanent stretch of virtual fence at night while the contractor is still working on it. Otherwise, the Border Patrol might have to wait until late summer or early fall to take control of the section.

In ordering a reassessment of the project on Jan. 8, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said that the delays were unacceptable and that the government needs to consider more efficient and economical options. She did not elaborate.

"Americans need border security now -- not 10 years down the road," Napolitano said.

As for the possibility of the project being scaled back by government officials, Tim Peters, a Boeing vice president, said: "They really need to come up with the right calculus, and we'll support that answer and look to be their preferred contractor to build whatever portion of what that calculus is."

Both Boeing and the government officials said the technical problems stemmed from an erroneous belief that the first-of-its-kind virtual fence could be put together relatively quickly by tying together off-the-shelf components that weren't designed to be linked.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Wed, Feb 3, 2010, at 2:10 PM

WHOOPS!!!

Now comes word from Idaho that the address given as headquarters for those "Baptist Missionaries" (attempting to bus 33 Haitian kids out without any papers whatsoever) -- That address is for a house which has been vacant for considerable time and is in foreclosure!!

Should that make us suspicious of those nice folks' motives?

Anyone want to bet if some ACORN volunteers had listed an abandoned Detroit building as headquarters -- and tried to the same manuever with 33 Haitian kids -- or three -- the CONSERVATIVE OUTCRY would not be deafening??

European reporters, with no dog in this fight, are reporting today that these Missionaries knew beyond question that most of these children were not orphans -- and observers were present when parents released their children with expressed hopes they would have a chance for better life out of Haiti.

It is possible these missionaries are innocent of wrongdoing.

But with the evidence to date, their clear lies to everyone -- it is also possible they hoped to find adoption for 33 children at $10,000 - $15,000 "agency costs" for each child.

DO THE MATH.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Fri, Feb 5, 2010, at 10:08 AM

Joe - what we are seeing from these folks the extreme left is a futile attempt to convince themselves that liberalism isn't the lie they know it is.

-- Posted by sameldridge on Sat, Feb 6, 2010, at 12:36 AM

Jose,

Read the news reports carefully.

Listen to the CNN reports carefully.

It was 33 children, more than 20 were NOT ORPHANS.

The organizer, a woman in her 30s with a "colorful past" and a dozen Baptist volunteers who only helped with the kids, while the organizer ran the show.

All observers are agreed upon those details.

People interviewed in Idaho.

People in Haiti among the foreign press who saw and filmed it all.

Haitian police, U.S. officials, U.N. officials.

Every day, indications are incresing that the woman who organized the whole thing and recruited those volunteers, was not legit.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Wed, Feb 10, 2010, at 6:16 PM

Hey Reformist,

Hitler started his operations by eliminating all labor unions.

This was even before the "Night of the Long Knives" when he sent SS goons out to murder more than 80 leaders of original (SA)Brown Shirts.

Immediately after, the entire German Army stood in formations and swore allegiance to Hitler, rather than the standard oath of allegiance to Germany and the German Constitution.

The Brown Shirts had overseen construction of many of the concentration camps, quickly filling them with all of Hitler's "undesirables."

As reward, many ended up inside as prisoners, allowed to operate as strong arm trustee rulers.

By that time, more than 90% of all identified German "liberals" were imprisoned -- or DEAD.

Leading the "Dead" column -- most of Germany's Communists and Socialists.

Still trying to figure out how we suddenly have a whole new political creation here in the U.S. of A. -- the wondrous Communist/Nazi/Socialist!

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Sat, Feb 13, 2010, at 9:05 PM

By the way, Jose,

How did Lenin -- specifically -- become the RED TERROR?

Other than the revolution with open warfare between the Bolsheviks and White Russian Czarist armies and partisans -- there is no record of Lenin being involved in any blood letting.

That came latter with development of the Georgian assassin and cutthroat, Uncle Joe Stalin.

Stalin exceeded Hitler in directly ordered killings.

It is probably a toss up as to which caused the most deaths.

Mao comes in there strongly.

With all three -- somewhere between 50-million and 100-million people died.

One Nazi -- One Military Dictator/Assassin posing as a politician while perfecting mass murder and terrorist control from East Berlin to the Bering Sea and North Korea. That's a rather large share of the Earth's surface.

Remember, U.S. airmen, soldiers and Marines, along with POWs from other nations died in the Soviet Siberian Gulags. Some apparently actually survived into the 1990s.

Mao -- Cut directly from the Ancient Chinese Warlord patterns, just with a total goal and the wiles to secure outside support by claiming to be a fellow communist to an industrial nation which also pretended to be Communist.

The great 20th Century Myth. Criminals, assassins and thugs claiming an idealogy as justification for their actions -- when the whole time, it was purely lust for power and control of entire economies.

There is a better approach than blind tantrums raving about leftists, liberals, socialists, communists and their Nazi/Fascist friends.

Actually study history and do some legitimate research.

Don't rely on any source emanating from a partisan political base, or extolling a specific viewpoint.

There are factual, unbiased sources.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Sun, Feb 14, 2010, at 2:14 PM

Hank - now that the Haitian orphans were truly deemed orphans, and actually determined to be in the care of Christian people placed there by their parents; and a judge actually ruled in favor of the volunteers, and the prosecution actually withdrew the charges...

Are you willing to admit you were wrong?

Didn't think so.

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 4:27 PM

Hank would admit he is wrong but he is too busy embellishing another life story diatribe to treat us all with. He once caught a fish THHHIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSS long.

-- Posted by hankherndon on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 4:33 PM

Mickel,

More than 20 of those 33 children have been officially confirmed by U.S., U.N. and Haitian authorities to have at least one parent living.

Apparently the parents relinquished their children to the group in hopes they would have better lives in the U.S.

Serious questions about the woman leading the group, who at best has a "colorful" background,including a foreclosed home in Idaho and a known human trafficer tho mysteriously appeared to assist in Haiti -- are unanswered.

There seems to be NO QUESTION about the convicted trafficer in women and girls for prostitution.

Eight apparently naive and innocent missionaries from two Idaho Baptist churches were released and flown out of Haiti on a U.S. C-130 yesterday.

The prime leader and her "deputy," who has been allowed hospital treatment for diabetes, are still in the Haitian jail --- at least pending their courts' completing the investigation.

The word is telephone records for these two women are being sought.

If direct contact between either or both of them and the previously convicted human trafficer is proven -- expect someone will be visiting the Crossbar Hotel for a L-O-O-N-N-NG TIME.

Possibly serving the sentence in the U.S, but with Haiti's application of Napoleonic Law, a conviction will not go easy.

Even under Haitian law, parents do not have the legal right to hand their children over to anyone to be taken from the country.

Since the earthquake, a major concern has been removal of Haitian children to be sold as sex slaves.

Mickel, are we to believe you are willing to twist the well reported facts because you were to receive one of these kids?

While well aware the Neo-Cons on here firmly believe anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest detail is a godless Communist/Liberal/Fascist -- I'll still hold to my long held belief that anyone who sexually abuses a child should be hung with an aircraft cable by the most offensive portion of the anatomy and left there to rot.

That includes a pseudo Missionary profiteer if that is proven to be the case.

From what has been released the past two weeks, I suspect the first woman is guilty and there is a 50/50 chance or less, her deputy was duped along with the younger missionaries.

Use the computer to research this whole mess. Respect facts.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:21 AM

It is shocking to me Hank that you don't personally know several of the missionaries or did not help the Napoleonic law. Or are you just holding back on us??

-- Posted by hankherndon on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:53 AM

Hank - I used the term "orphans" because the media used the label creating an easily recognizable moniker for the story. Is my use of a common moniker to be equated with your blatant condemnation of a group as a whole?

http://www.newsok.com/freed-missionaries...

According to the above link...your version of the story isn't true. Do you have some sort of verification for what you are saying? Or are you just twisting facts to satisfy your own ends?

C'mon Hank, put your money where your mouth is...you've taken practically every conservative on this blog to task about whether or not they were going to adopt somebody elses unfortunate child...how many Haitian orphans have YOU taken in?

Methinks you are trying to change horses midstream. Trust me...I expected no less.

-- Posted by Mickel on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 1:07 AM

Mickel,

Have you noticed?

All but two of the "missionary group" have returned home.

There are serious questions regarding the primary woman leader and her chief deputy.

There is no doubt about the "lawyer" who showed up representing them -- He is a convicted Sex Slaver.

Several of the returning Baptist missionaries have stated in airport interviews that the leader had clearly lied to them.

Final count on the "orphans."

Everyone has living parents. Apparently most if not all of the parents willingly gave her custody of their children, thinking they would have a chance for a better life outside Haiti.

Latest inquiry -- Who provided the funds to rent a small hotel in the Dominican Republic?

So far, no one has been able to come up with a U.S. church or any other body which provided that kind of money. Church support was apparently confined to paying expenses for their members.

-----------------

Not that it has any bearing, but a former New England Yankee, now in Florida leads a large group of us who have maintained an orphanage in Haiti for the past five years.

With the buildings destroyed in the quake -- the children are back under cover, mostly canvass, but they are safe and none were killed.

They are getting clean water and three meals daily, even some granola bar snacks.

At my age, adopting any child would be ludicrous.

But, if any of you want to contribute to this orphanage and the children -- I'll be happy to post addresses.

Although it appears our group has the ability to handle this particular situation.

A modular manufacturer has offered buildings and a shipping firm is donating a barge to carry them down to Haiti -- before Hurricane season, probably in April/May.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 5:25 PM

See, Hank...I'm just not finding corroboration of your 'sex trade' assertions. Maybe if you posted a link.

The latest I found is that the leader of the group told a lie about the children being orphaned. Apparently, THAT was the worst that happened in this story.

http://www.newsok.com/article/3441225?se...

Thanks for sharing the good news about relief efforts; our family is associated with groups involved in long and short term aide to the Haitians as well. I believe the American people exemplify the best sort of conduct in these types of situations. To my observation, it's rare that private organizations are involved in abuse and victimization.

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 11:41 AM

Mickel -- from USA Today

"The Associated Press has determined that there is not one orphan among the 33 children that a U.S. Baptist group tried to take from Haiti in a do-it-yourself rescue mission following January's devastating earthquake.

All Haitian 'orphans' with Baptists had parents

By Frank Bajak, AP

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (AP) -- There is not one orphan among the 33 children that a U.S. Baptist group tried to take from Haiti in a do-it-yourself rescue mission following a devastating earthquake, the Associated Press has determined.

In a visit Saturday to the rubble-riddled Citron slum where 13 of the children lived, parents who gave their children away confirmed that each one of the youngsters had living parents.

Their testimony echoed that of parents in the mountain town of Callabas, outside the capital of Port-au-Prince, who told the AP on Feb. 3 that desperation and blind faith led them to hand over 20 children to the religious Americans who promised them a better life.

Now the Citron parents worry they may never see their children again.

MISSIONARIES FREED: Back in U.S. from Haiti

ORPHANS: Social workers play detective to reunite families

HOMELESS: Agencies race to help 1.2 million in Haiti

STUDY: Quake damage twice the value of Haiti economy

One mother who gave up all four of her children, including a 3-month-old, is locked in a trance-like state but sometimes erupts into fits of hysteria.

She and other parents said they relinquished their children to the U.S. missionaries because they were promised safekeeping across the border in a newly established orphanage in the Dominican Republic.

Their stories contradict the missionaries' still-jailed leader, Laura Silsby, who told the AP the day after her arrest that the children were either orphans or came from distant relatives.

"She should have told the truth," said Jean Alex Viellard, a 25-year-old law student from Citron who otherwise expressed admiration for the missionaries.

He took them cookies, candies and oranges during their nearly three weeks of detention before eight of the 10 were released Wednesday on their own recognizance and flew home to the United States.

Silsby, who has told the AP she is 47 although other sources give her age as 40, and her assistant, Charisa Coulter, 24, remain jailed as the investigating judge interviews officials at the orphanages the two visited prior to the devastating Jan. 12 quake. They are set to appear in court again Tuesday.

As they left the jail and boarded a U.S. Embassy van, the freed Baptists waved and thanked Viellard, who later called them "great people who were doing good for Haiti."

The Americans, most from an Idaho church group, were charged with child kidnapping for trying to remove the children without the proper documents to the neighboring Dominican Republic in the post-quake chaos.

Silsby had been working since last summer to create an orphanage. After the quake, she hastily organized a self-styled "rescue mission," enlisting missionaries from Idaho, Texas and Kansas.

She was led to Citron by Pastor Jean Sainvil, an Atlanta, Georgia-based Haitian minister who recruited the 13 children in the slum. Sainvil had been a frequent visitor to the neighborhood of unpaved streets and simple cement homes even before more than half of the houses collapsed in the quake.

"The pastor said that with all the bodies decomposing in the rubble there were going to be epidemics, and the kids were going to get sick," said Regilus Chesnel, a 39-year-old stone mason.

Chesnel's wife, 33-year-old Bertho Magonie, said her husband persuaded her to give away their children -- ages 12, 7, 3, and 1 -- and a 10-year-old nephew living with them because their house had collapsed and the kids were sick.

"They were vomiting. They had fevers, diarrhea and headaches," she said, leaning against the wall of the grimy two-room hovel the couple shares.

In a telephone interview from the United States on Saturday, Sainvil confirmed the Chesnels' story. He said a collapsed building adjacent to where the children lived held six or seven corpses.

He said he first met Silsby on Jan. 27 in the town of Ouanaminthe on the Haiti-Dominican border and agreed to help her collect children for a 150-bed orphanage the Americans were establishing near the beach resort of Cabarete in the Dominican Republic.

Sainvil, a former orphan who says his nondenominational Haiti Sharing Jesus Ministry has 25 churches in the countryside, said the two agreed to meet again in Port-au-Prince on Feb. 13 to get more children.

The day after he met Silsby, Sainvil collected the 13 children from Citron. A day after that, the missionaries' bus was halted at the Dominican border and they were arrested. Sainvil, meanwhile, became sick with vomiting and diarrhea and decided to fly back to the U.S. on a military transport plane, he said.

He denied leaving out of fear he might be arrested.

"I wasn't doing anything wrong," he said.

Sainvil said what Silsby was doing did not constitute adoption "because the parents had the right to go visit their children or take them back when their situation changed."

The pastor said his deeds are often misunderstood by people in the developed world who don't realize that more than half of the 380,000 children in Haiti's orphanages are not orphans. Many have parents who -- even before the quake -- were simply unable to care for them.

The problem is that some of the "orphans" end up as sex slaves or are given jobs doing housework in exchange for food and shelter -- and sometimes school. It is precisely because of that problem that, after the quake, Haiti's government banned all adoptions except those approved before the disaster.

Sainvil said he went to Citron for children because he knew people there were desperate: He had been sleeping under tarps with them. Food was barely trickling in, medical care was just becoming available and hundreds of decomposing bodies were buried beneath the neighborhood's collapsed homes.

Under one of the blue tarps sheltering the Chesnels' homeless neighbors, 27-year-old Maletid Desilien lay Saturday on a bed of two soiled rugs. Only her eyes peered out from under a bedsheet.

"She has been like that ever since someone told her she will never get the kids back," said her husband, Dieulifanne Desilien, who works in a T-shirt factory.

That was eight days ago. Most of the time she lies catatonic, he said, warning a reporter not to go near because she periodically has fits.

"She would get up, take her clothes off and run around pulling her hair out," Desilien, 40, said of his wife. "She would jump up from sleep and say, 'Bring me my kids."'

He said she only calms down and is able to sleep after speaking by phone with her children, who are at an orphanage in the capital run by the Austrian-based SOS Children's Villages charity.

The day they arrived, orphanage officials said, the Desiliens' 3-month-old daughter, Koestey, was so dehydrated she had to be hospitalized. The other children are ages 7, 6 and 4. Their father -- but not their mother -- has visited them.

Desilien said a police commander has assured him that he will get the children back. The Social Welfare ministry, however, has yet to decide whether some or all of the 33 children will be returned to their parents.

"My wife is sick so I have to find a way to get the children back," Seselien said.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 4:14 PM

Mickel,

Took me all of five minutes to find plenty of reports on this situation. Required almost a half hour to sort through and choose these two.

-------------------------------------

"SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic (AP) -- A man who provided legal assistance to 10 jailed U.S. missionaries and who may be wanted for human trafficking in El Salvador was not known to the Americans' church group before their arrest, a relative said Saturday.

For that reason and because the adviser could by law represent them in Haiti, lawyers for the missionaries argued, his legal troubles should have no bearing on whether the missionaries are released provisionally, as a judge has recommended.

Sean Lankford told The Associated Press that Jorge Puello first contacted relatives of the Americans by calling their church, Central Valley Baptist in Meridian, Idaho, after they were arrested on Jan. 29 trying to take 33 children out of Haiti.

They thought Puello, claiming to be Jewish and yarmulke-wearing,from the Dominican Republic, was a good Samaritan and had no reason to doubt his intentions, said Lankford, whose wife and daughter are among the detained.

"He helped us find the lawyer we have now. He helped us gather evidence. Before him, we really were having a hard time finding anyone at all" to represent the missionaries in neighboring Haiti, said Lankford.

Puello never asked for money for himself but "was going to help us to pay the other attorneys. He was the guy who was going to hand money to lawyers," Lankford added in a phone interview Saturday.

"He even took a small plane into Haiti at one point and he didn't want to be reimbursed at all," Lankford said.

He would not say how much relatives paid Puello, and he said it was his understanding that Puello had no relation to any of the missionaries before they were arrested.

The Americans said they were on a humanitarian mission, rescuing desperate victims of Haiti's catastrophic Jan. 12 earthquake. They had leased a hotel in the Dominican beach resort of Cabarate where they were setting up an orphanage.

The deputy investigations director of El Salvador's police, Howard Augusto Cotto, told reporters Friday that he was seeking fingerprints for Puello to determine whether he is the 32-year-old Salvadoran named in an Interpol arrest warrant for allegedly running a sex trafficking ring that lured women and girls from the Caribbean and Central America into prostitution with bogus offers of modeling jobs.

A photo of the wanted man, Jorge Torres Orellana, bears a striking resemblance to Puello, who on Wednesday visited the Haitian judge hearing the case in his chambers in Port-au-Prince.

Cotto told The Associated Press "the possibility is high" that Torres and Puello are the same man.

The Haitian judge, Bernard Saint-Vil, told the AP on Thursday that he was recommending the Americans be provisionally released. He said he expected to issue a decision next week.

Puello readily answered calls from the AP untilThe New York Times reported Thursday night that he might be the wanted sex trafficker. He has since Friday refused to answer phone calls.

The Times quoted Puello as denying any connection to trafficking and saying he had never been to El Salvador.

The paper also quoted Saint-Vil as saying the Puello situation could delay his decision on whether to release the Americans, most of who are from an Idaho church group. Saint-Vil could not be located for comment. He did not respond to repeated telephone messages.

On Saturday, the Dominican police chief, Rafael Guzman, issued a statement saying Puello had no criminal record there but was under investigation. He is in apparent violation of Dominican law for failing to obtain a license, said Jose Parra, vice president of the Dominican Lawyers Association.

Lawyers for the missionaries, meanwhile, argued Saturday that Puello deceived their clients and that his legal predicament should have no bearing on their fate.

"The Puello case has no relation to this one," said Aviol Fleurant, who was hired last week to represent nine of the 10 Americans. "If Puello is wanted in El Salvador, that's another case.

The attorney for the 10th American, Jim Allen of Amarillo, Texas, said relatives of the jailed missionaries erred by appearing to entrust Puello blindly.

"The families, unfortunately, did not check his background, did not do due diligence," said the lawyer, Gary Lissade.

Fleurant, meanwhile, said he had only received a small part of the fee he was promised by the Americans for defending them against child kidnapping charges filed on Feb. 4.

Neither he nor Lankford would name his promised fee, and Fleurant refused to directly accuse Puello of absconding with the bulk of it.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 4:20 PM

Hank - your first story was the link I myself provided.

The second..."A man who provided legal assistance to 10 jailed U.S. missionaries and who may be wanted for human trafficking..."

'Who MAY be wanted...'

Interesting thing the English language. Words mean things.

Here's something you might find interesting, Hank...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

-- Posted by Mickel on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:26 PM

Mickel,

Qualified descriptions are standard with the media.

Ask the GAZETTE editorial staff.

Keeps down the lawsuits.

You just might have noticed the situation in Haiti is a trifle chaotic.

Bodies are still decomposing in the rubble.

Parents are in the hospitals unable to determine if their children are alive, and the children have no idea where the parents are.

There is no method for identifying 90% of the dead, or the living.

There has never been a CENSUS, there is no real governmental organization, no effective Haitian military or police.

And with that supposedly Jewish Attorney, there is no known connection within the small Caribbean and Central American Jewish Community.

Took all of three days to discover that.

This is an area, where if anyone wants to disappear there are at least ten countries where new citizenship, new ID papers and a new Passport are available for between $4,000 and $10,000.

Any wonder a man who answers the rather unique description of a sex trafficer in one Latin American Nation, just might show up in any one of several nations under a different name, looking exactly the same as the convicted felon -- except that the "new" individual who interjects himself into an "orphan kidnapping" case -- is wearing that distinctive Jewish skull cap.

Once the connection is announced -- he disappears like smoke -- and no one is sure -- but it appears he left with money, not his own.

Toss in the leading lady, who is accused of lying by her own missionary group, who has an interesting past, lists a long-vacant, foreclosed house as the headquarters for her missionary effort, etc.

And with 33 children -- not one orphan -- being taken out of Haiti in an old school bus, without papers of any kind --

And then this rather different 'lawyer" appears at the Haitian jail to help the lady and her group, strictly out of the kindness of his heart.

It do seem sort of strange.

But you continue standing up for their innocence.

Makes you feel good.

Don't bother me.

I tend to look at all the known facts and reach my own evaluation.

Have serious problems with a dozen or so coincidences all in quick order, amidst chaos.

Maybe there was no misconduct.

But, if there was -- it was serious and seems better to err on the side of caution.

-- Posted by HerndonHank on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 7:49 PM

Scenario:

Earthquake in Haiti. Untold number of people dead, untold number of people suffering. No definitite timetable on when the Big BO will get food and water to the suffering...so private groups move in to help.

One private group offers to take a group of children to an orphanage in the nearby Dominican Republic for care, safety and security. Many families readily agree...and send these children on their way.

Somehow, someway...the media finds out that it was a Christian group trying to help out. *GASP* Naturally this raises little red flags and dire suspicions due to (perhaps?) the politically correct profiling done on behalf of the media for the benefit of world citizens about the heinous acts of Christians; rightfully bringing practically several Christian perpetrators into the spotlight.

Accusations fly. The severity of the accusations and the seriousness of the charges trumps actual presumed innocence, hence the trial is commenced on the front pages and in front of TV cameras of the news media for the benefit of the world audience. The purpose? These Christians are guilty and MUST pay.

A judge finds the group innocent. Two are still held for further questioning...but no further charges develop. There are still some lukewarm streams of speculation, but nothing with depth and credibility; but no matter...as the media has accomplished it's goal of bringing its version of the truth to light. The many following stories don't quite make it into the white hot spotligt.

And a gullible good ol' hayseed becomes an expert on this particular issue because them good little reporters and reporterettes didn't denounce rights for US citizens. No they trumped the right to innocence by CHRISTIAN US citizens, but it's okay, because they certainly believe in US taxpayer paid trials for Al Queda warcriminal KSM among others. KSM is Khalid Sheik Mohammed for you folks who may not know.

....No really this story really happened. You can read it right here on the pages of this very gazette. And we were here to witness it.

-- Posted by Mickel on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 9:15 PM


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