Musical Hope & Party Hardy

Posted Wednesday, January 13, 2010, at 4:44 PM
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    Sam, just for fun, you know that G-man never watches anything but MSNBC in his room in his mother's basement. He thinks it's the only channel on cable, that along with Comedy Central. He's still working on getting that Goggle thing to work right and do research on his own on his trips to the public library.

    Yes, that blasted deficit spending has tripled under the Bamster, and Hillary begs the Chinese for more, and when that doesn't work the Bamster bows to their Premier! Funny how Obama and the Dems who voted for all that spending under Bush are suddenly absolved... Oh, and Dodd and Frank, who said that Freddie/Fannie were fine and should just keep making all those insolvent loans to people who couldn't afford them -- where are they now?

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 8:30 PM
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    If all that hypocritical wasteful spending wasn't bad enough, it appears that the prayers of the cult of man-caused global warming sure are making this winter tough across North America! In fact, the whole world is warming at such a rapid rate now that the French Rivera, Venice, Beijing, and Britain are burning up under heavy loads of white ashes. Their god must have a sense of humor though, as during their messiah's and the Dopehagen gang's pilgrimage, he/she/it dumped the biggest blizzard on them in over 14 years!

    I fear that their green prophet Algore must not have sacrificed enough carbon credits on the altar of secular humanism, or perhaps he didn't save enough of those polar bears that are increasing in population. Oh, and not to mention that tree ring thing and "hockey stick" charts! All the same, it is nice to finally see them starting to organize their religion. We should probably just consider all that ill-timed Climategate and hide the decline stuff as part of their secret initiation rituals.

    I don't know how all the temple rites work in their climate religion, but I'm sure glad that Billy Clinton didn't go over, and just think if Barney Frank and his basement boys had shown up?! They would have given all those riot police more trouble than all those Communists that tried to liven things up. Now there's a scary thought... Some days you just gotta shake your head and laugh, even in troubled times.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 9:18 PM
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    Guillermo - there are many sources, here is one from the New York Slimes:

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:05 PM
  • In January, the incoming administration predicted in a white paper study that without a huge stimulus package, unemployment would reach just over 8%, and would be contained at under 8% with a stimulus package.

    There you go G.I.

    -- Posted by boojum666 on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:08 PM
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    Hey Mark - I tell you how bad Obama is, I actually miss Bill Clinton.

    The Democrats have yet to be called into account for the Frannie and Freddie debacle. They were behind the whole thing, and let's not forget Franklin Rains, one of Obama's buddies that raked a cool ninety million from Frannie while driving it bankrupt.

    George Soros and Hugo Chavez have yet to be investigated for helping making a run on our market system right before last election, which resulted in the TARP disaster.

    The Democrats will not investigate, becuase it helped them attain power, and of course, power is god to them.

    Gawd, wouldn't it be nice if everyone had to pay taxes in the method of the self employed. The Democrats would be finished tomorrow!

    Many Republicans criticized Bush when he spent money like a Democrats. The libs/progressives conveniently forget that fact.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:16 PM

    Seems like the earthers like their luxury.

    What gross hypocrisy. This world has high tech methods of communication that would have eliminated all of the waste exhibited in Copenhagen. But no, that would have been too simple, not nearly dramatic

    But what should we expect from liars.

    -- Posted by boojum666 on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:23 PM

    More examples of amazing waste.

    I would guess that most if not all the delegates had a laptop, blackberry, iphone that would have enabled electronic dessemination of informtion.

    even the attendees were appalled at the waste

    -- Posted by boojum666 on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:40 PM
  • Ha

    maybe some wag could turn Amazing Waste into the earthers theme song!


    -- Posted by boojum666 on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:42 PM
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    Guillermo - I never claimed to be an intellectual! That was a low blow bro! (smiling)

    BooJum - thanks for the excellent links

    Consider the clean up of the Dopenhagen festival against the clean up of the tea party folks. You'll quickly discover who cares for the environment.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Wed, Jan 13, 2010, at 10:47 PM
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    I too liked all of Obama's swift and decisive action last year: Afganistan (9 months), Gitmo (open till at least 2011), Czar and Cabinet appointees (many still not filled or were fired), ending Rendition and Patriot Act, etc...

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 9:24 AM
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    Possibly off topic somewhat, but here is a powerful video that conservatives should find encouraging.

    American Rising

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 12:50 PM
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    ...also a brief cameo by Benedict Nelson (bribe segment).

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 12:55 PM
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    More reckless wasteful destruction of life in the name of secular humanistic fundamentalism:

    "California's Proposition 71 Failure"

    Bioethics: Five years after a budget-busting $3 billion was allocated to embryonic stem cell research, there have been no cures, no therapies and little progress. So supporters are embracing research they once opposed.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 1:19 PM
  • Frankly rendition and profiling should be taken to the next level to protect us from the terrorists that would blow a plane load of innocents out of the sky, bomb a shoppers market,

    or a bus load of children.

    An Eye for an Eye.

    loose the dogs of war.

    -- Posted by Fundin on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 4:39 PM
  • Nah, we have better weapons then they do, we win.

    -- Posted by Fundin on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 4:54 PM
  • Not yet, but then our troops haven't been able to really take the war to the enemy yet.

    Obama has been baring his teeth a bit with increased predator flights, good for him.

    maybe the jihadists will come to actually fear a liberal some day. :)

    -- Posted by Fundin on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 5:27 PM
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    Carl, I merely pointed out the gross hypocrisy of Obama in saying that Rendition was an evil to be ended and then he flip flops and decides he want to keep it?! Don't get mad at me, he is one who lied to you.

    As for supposed "kidnapping" and "torture"; as someone who served in the Army, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and other methods of enhanced interrogation are routinely used in training in case of capture. Are you really saying that the U.S. Government tortures its own soldiers for training purposes? Pardon my incredulity at that sort of "logic". By the way, what you falsely call "kidnapping" is used by all nations at WAR...

    Next, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you really saying that enhanced interrogation methods are the same as or worse than the genocide of unborn children? Please tell me I misunderstood you. If I am correct, then you sir are the judgmental hypocrite. In either case, I do recognize the existence of your soul, but am not sure of the place it is headed.

    Humor me, but after this exchange I must ask you, when you close with "God", please tell me what you mean -- the God of Star Wars, deism, pantheism, kumbaya, or the Bible?

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 5:28 PM
  • Carl

    We are at war with fanatics, who hate our very existance.

    the techniques our people use on them pale in comparison to the horrible vile things these animals inflict on their victims.

    Point your vitriol at them.

    The jihadist don't fear us yet, that needs to be changed.

    why should god bless only america?

    -- Posted by boojum666 on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 6:12 PM
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    Carl, just in case they don't show it on MSNBC, we are fighting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as a new type of warfare against terrorist cells in diverse locations. This is commonly known as the War on Terror. Other wars have had multiple theaters of operations as well.

    Even the Bamster admits we are prosecuting "wars" and as of a few days ago, he even went so far as to say, and I'll quote for you, "War on Terror". There, you have it straight from the mouth of the progressive messiah. Now that the Obama administration is keeping Rendition it must NOT be illegal, right?

    Repeat after me: "Obama is a torturer! Obama is a torturer!"....

    So are you mad at the Bamster for lying to you about keeping Rendition, Patriot Act, and sending 30,000 additional troops into a non-war? I heard the other day that that war monger Bamster is also asking for several hundred Billion more for those wars we aren't fighting...

    Also, you didn't answer my question about our past and current government policy of "torturing" our own troops for training?

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 6:26 PM
  • Sam and Company,

    Where were the neo-con complaints when Poppa Bush flew to Japan with a major entourage, so he could vomit all over his host?

    Where were you when Nixon zipped down to Bebe Rebozo's Florida estate for repeated vacations and long weekends during his tenure.

    Where were you when Ronnie and Nancy were spending close to ten per cent of his eight years at the Santa Barbara ranch. {Which along with the all-electric Pacific Palisades house and the San Clemente estate -- were purchased for the Reagans via a syndicate of their billionaire friends -- along with the super luxurious Sacramento mansion Nancy had to have -- refusing to live in the Governor's Mansion. A mansion close to the office wasn't good enough, she wanted a view of the river.]

    Where were you when Poppa Bush took Air Force One and Two, plus a half dozen support jets to the Persian Gulf for the Saudi King's birthday bash?

    Nothing mundane like a global environmental conference -- A really important Birthday Party for an old and really close family friend.

    We've seen endless moaning about the "demands" of third world countries upon the E.U. and U.S. during the Copenhagen sessions.

    However, not a word, about how the U.S President, solidly backed by House and Senate leaders, politely but firmly told those folks they were out of luck with those demands.

    By the way, the developed nations, the E.U., U.S., Russia and Japan had already agreed what their help would consist of -- and the "demanders" you love to cite, learned the deal was "Take this or leave it."

    As if the mindless caterwauling about Copenhagen isn't enough in light of the decades of Republican Presidents fully using all the perks of office.

    We still have nonsense about the President who was in office for eight years having no responsibility for the financial disaster. Even to the point of blaming Pres. Obama for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's problems created during that era. And all of a sudden, supposedly an Obama appointee ripped off taxpayers for $90-Million.

    What about the PROVEN $1-Billion plus Merrill-Lynch management awarded themselves for bankrupting their company just before BofA bought the remaining shell?

    Sorry Sam and Company, but the bail-outs, a la TARP were the creation of DubYah and his appointee, the former head of Lehman Brothers, where he laid the groundwork for bankruptcy and total collapse before slipping off to Washington. The irony, Lehman Brothers directors voted him a big, fat bonus -- not that long before they realized they were bankrupt. In fact, they were the first, and because of his direct ties, he could not get them a bail-out -- It was not politically possible.

    Of course, Afghanistan's Karsai, the hand-picked president Bush put into power, just this week described the hundreds of American lives and hundreds of billion of dollars, weapons, equipment, economic aide, etc. -- as being a "little help."

    If it weren't for the Pakistani nuclear arsenal, largely developed with Bush/Cheney in office, a lot of folks would be in favor of picking up our "little help" and bringing our people home.

    We keep hearing about how much better off we would be with President McCain. I'm sure his first wife, who was abed in the cancer ward when he handed her the divorce papers, would like to hear your ideas on McCain's high moral values. His record, crashing five Navy Jets before heading to Nam, then getting shot down and making propaganda films for North Viet Nam from the Hanoi Hilton.

    Other prisoners, such as Edward Alvarez, who was held longer than any other POW, never made propaganda films. Guess they weren't GOP heroes.

    But leaving the wife and kids on the mainland, while shacked up with a young blonde heiress in Hawaii, reinforced tthe GOP concept for hero.

    Just as Air National Guard time is much more heroic than an actual combat veteran who is awarded the nation's second highest military honor. [By the way, do any of you military combat experts have any idea of the investigations which are conducted before any service awards either the Congressional Medal of Honor or one of the Service Crosses?

    Sgt. York spent nearly a month being questioned, taking brass out to the battleground repeatedly, walking them through what happened.

    He had to fire at every kind of target know to man with his '03 Springfield repeatedly to convince people he really could shoot that well. The men in his outfit were taken out one-by-one, from privates through all the company grade officers and required to tell the story over and over.

    The German prisoners he took were questioned.

    The Military Crosses are only slightly less demanding for complete verification -- only about three levels of investigation -- compared to five.

    Yet, the sanctified jassonkeys continue claiming John Kerry's Navy Cross was a phony medal.

    Well boys, if John McCain's daddy and granddaddy had not been admirals, there is a strong chance he would have faced court martial for his collaboration with the enemy.

    Now, his legacy for the GOP is the ongoing soap opera involving Alaska's early-retiring former governor, her high class family, feud with McCain's staff and grand book-signing tour.

    Michael Steele authors his book describing how the GOP abused power when they had control and failed in their moral and constitutional responsibility.

    The National GOP Party Chairman can see that reality, but Sam and Company have better information.

    Will someone run up to the Black Hills this coming summer and locate the lodge where Calvin Coolidge spent the entire summer fishing, out of contact with his White House staff, Congress and the rest of the government he was being paid to head?

    I just love it when the lectures start about Republican responsibility.

    Obama continuing his Hawaiian vacation after the Christmas Day "crotch bombing" attempt, not addressing the nation for three days when he had all the information.

    DubYah staying on his vacation at the time of the "shoe bomber," and never directly referred to the event.

    DubYah continuing to read to children for a half hour after word of the 9/11 attacks, instead of getting aboard Air Force One and getting airborne.

    -- Posted by HerndonHank on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 7:02 PM
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    Hank -- It's Ok, but I think you need to get out more....

    Besides all the numerous omissions you left out about the libs/progressives/statists in recent memory, revisionist history, and possibly a whopper about McCain's wife (try googling Newt Gingrich), I am impressed in how much research you devoted to the topic, or was it from rote memory?

    The more Obama's popularity and health-despair poll numbers tank, the more the hysteria ramps up on the Left. However, that being said, let me profusely say that, I stand in solidarity with all you Leftist comrades concerning all the lies the Bamster has told all of us. Yes, pitchforks it is -- Impeach!

    Here's one of my favorite quotes from rote memory, which fits well here:

    "What Can Men Do Against Such Reckless Hate!" - - King Theoden, Lord of the Rings

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 7:31 PM
  • I for one wont stoop the leval of terriorists. I love the 4th grade mentality, "they are doing worse things then us". I guess that excuses your bad behavior.

    -- Posted by president obama on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 7:44 PM
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    It appears that the Bamster and the Left are the biggest hypocrites about "terrorism", "torture", etc. If the Bamster says Rendition and the War on Terror are OK now, it follows that Bush must have been right...

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 8:22 PM
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    Joe, you take point and I'll come up behind em shouting YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN! HOAX & CHAINS!

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 8:38 PM
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    Jeeeeez, Joe Buck is back. This discussion will be crapped to death in no time. Hi, Cartman!

    -- Posted by Jaded American on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 8:43 PM
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    Oh my gosh, I just saw the light and realized from all these lefty posts that the Army and my government tortured me during that escape and evasion training at Ft. Lewis!! How evil! How could I have not seen it for what it really was?! I must have been brainwashed during all that time I spent running around in the woods at night, without a flashlight, trying to escape from those cages, loud music, no sleep, and worst of all -- an endless loop tape of Jimmy Carter speeches!

    Blast it, where is the darned ACLU when you need them most?! My rights have been violated, and I will be forever tormented by the pain and anguish of knowing my government tortured me! I know my rights to an ACLU lawyer and a lifetime VA entitlement. Save me Obama - give me socialism or give me death....

    Ok, I'm fine now.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 9:01 PM
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    Oh, I forgot, how can I blame Bush for torturing me, he wasn't even president back then? Darn it, I'll bet Cheney wasn't even VP either. How about Rumsfeld? I'll check to see if Bush was Governor of Washington State back then, or something. Is Texas part of the Republic?

    Don't worry comrades, I've got to do it, I'll...I'll find a way to blame him! I'll do it, I swear.... I know, must have been Rove - - sneaky little devil....

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 9:23 PM
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    Now that Obama has accepted Rendition I suppose not even the ACLU will take my torture case. It'll be tied up at Eric Holder's office for years, or at a minimum, until Obama is run out in 2012 or impeached. Pro bono anyone?

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 9:32 PM
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    Eh, I like Mark. Joe is seeping some racism on the other blog. He don't like us black folk takin' handouts from the "gubment"

    -- Posted by Jaded American on Thu, Jan 14, 2010, at 10:24 PM
  • Yes Gi the thing speaks for itself, Including your own condesending arrogance towards others who post on this blog.

    This situation of Rendition, Gitmo is very interesting, perhaps Obama is unable to stop rendition or close Gitmo because there is a good reason to keep both. If Obama has the ultimate authority to act, why can't he do what was promised?

    -- Posted by boojum666 on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 7:03 AM
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    GI - Sour grapes because of Obama's and your Leftist Progressive agenda being flushed down the toilet in front of your eyes must be difficult to swallow! Victory and vindication of truth is sweet! 2010 is coming, so hang on tight to your red Che beret!

    Maybe someday you guys will be able to actually refute my simple, but sarcastic rebuttal to the hysteria and ignorance on the Left about Rendition, and enhanced interrogations. Obama has lied to you and you swallowed his tripe hook, line, and sinker. Oh, the hypocrisy! Until we meet again!

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 10:29 AM
  • Hey Mark,

    Sour Grapes --

    Remember New Orleans, Biloxi, southern Louisiana and even Southeast Texas with Katrina and the second hurricane?

    All the wonderful neglect Bush's Texas horse racing promoter imposed on that region?

    Compare nothing happening for years to what has happened the past three days mustering aid to Haiti.

    CNN has just announced the text message $10 fund raising is producing more than $7-Million in donations in two days.

    That terrible Bill Clinton has raised BILLIONS for Haitian relief from his friends around the world.

    As for all the advance declaration of a stunning conservative victory in 2010 -- every farm boy knows it ain't smart to count unhatched chicks.

    Just because neo-con Billionaires can promote their mouthpieces into talk radio spots -- does not mean more than a small percentage of the electorate buys the non-stop attack line.

    Even Cuba has opened its airfields to U.S. relief planes to land, while waiting for an opening on the Haitian airfield.

    Let's hear it for Shotgun Cheney and his proven expertise in exterminating Al Qaeda.

    Sorry, forgot that his military expertise seems limited to subjecting hunting buddy lawyers to "Friendly Fire."

    -- Posted by HerndonHank on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 2:52 PM
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    Hank - I really hope you didn't get this stuff from the same place that you got the McCain wife info. Sad that the Bamster reacts somewhat faster to an overseas disaster than he does to terrorist attacks on his own country. By the way, I also heard the Bamster say that his logisitcs are so screwed up that there will be long delays. Good thing faith-based aid agencies are already on the ground to pick up the slack - just like Katrina. Keep looking to the government to take care of and think for you. You might want to see if you can still catch one of those planes down to Cuba - I hear they have real good, free, government-run health care.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 4:20 PM
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    GI -- I do feel your pain, but only in as far as Obama has proved to be more of a lair in his first year than Bush was in eight.

    I am also glad that we do agree on how Rendition isn't illegal, and that enhanced interrogations are not torture. I knew we'd find some common ground someday!

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 5:18 PM
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    Yeah, it's really shameful that the Army tortured me and thousands of others as part of training, but you won't find me looking to the ACLU. Besides the U.S. has no moral ground in the developing world since they know our western abortionists have legalized the genocide of our own children.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 5:37 PM
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    So we do agree after all. Since enhanced interrogation in training is supervised and enhanced interrogations of enemy combatants in a time of war are supervised, then it follows that they both are legal and that the latter is even more so. Thanks, I got it now.

    Also, abortion is indeed genocide, and I have already shown that even by the most basic definition as I gave previously from Webster's. But, I won't beat that dead horse anymore.

    And yes, the majority of the world's two largest religions, Islam and Christianity teach that abortion is a sin and/or crime, at least in the more civilized developing world. So, then I would postulate that that majority in general has a higher moral standard than those abortion-loving Christians/non-Christians in the west.

    Finally, from 12 year's experience of working in West Africa I know for a fact that I had to clarify this very stereotype just because I am a "westerner". I often had to reinforce the truth that all westerners do not believe abortion/genocide is right. It usually helps to make that clear before taking about faith & morality with someone who believes all westerners are for abortion.

    Unfortunately, that d@mned Mexico City policy, and its promotion of abortion abroad, has ruined much of the U.S. moral standing in the Islamic/Christian developing world. Bush took it out of commission, but of course the messiah Obama, the most liberal abortionist in politics, put it right back in force as one his first priorities.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 6:43 PM
  • You voluntered for the training and could have said no at any time so dont give me that line about how you were tortured.

    -- Posted by president obama on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 9:31 PM
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    bigdawg -- I was using a heavy dose of sarcasm in my satirical posts about being "tortured".

    I was never "tortured" in the Army because enhanced interrogations are NOT torture. That is the whole point. Under Bush, the lib/progressives were always running around like Chicken Little shouting "Rendition is torture", when it is not! So now after the Bamster claimed during the '08 election cycle that it was torture and would abolish it, he has flip flopped and kept it, along with the Patriot Act. That is the hypocrisy of it! The Bamster LIED to the Libs and now they don't know what it Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, and many Dems in Congress were right all along. My point is that the military commonly does these same things to soldiers as part of training and that the Gov't doesn't "torture" its people.

    Secondly, a solider doesn't really have a "choice" to disobey a direct order to attend mandatory training exercises in the military unless you are absolutely sure it can be deemed an unlawful order. Otherwise, you will most likely go to the brig. That is why those who are in the military are under a different code of law that is known as the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Finally, enemy combatants captured under the terms of war are subject to that code of war, and can legally be subjected to enhanced interrogations.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Fri, Jan 15, 2010, at 10:11 PM
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    You must realize that you stated your opinion as fact (we ALL know?) and did some serious logical gymnastics with that last one? Oh well...

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 12:25 PM
  • lets see, we have

    1. interrogation

    2. enhanced interrogation

    3. Super enhanced interrogation

    4. super duper enhanced interragation

    5. extra super duper enhanced interragation

    6. delux extra super duper enhanced interragation

    where does it end? At least none if it would be called torture. What a joke

    -- Posted by president obama on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 2:25 PM
  • What im saying is you can polish a turd all you want. You know whay you got when you are done polishing?

    -- Posted by president obama on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM
  • *

    Laws are drafted and sorted out by politicians, judges, lawyers, and such. My point is that under Bush and now Obama, the enhanced interrogations that were used are still considered legal.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 5:48 PM
  • *

    "Torturing" ourselves, but not the enemy:

    Let me see if we can follow the convoluted logic that states that we will do something morally reprehensible like "torture" to tens of thousands of our own people in order to train them to not be like others who are less morally inclined than we are. Doing it to ourselves, that is, our fellow countrymen, and not them as enemy combatants, sets us up as an example of being more moral?

    That kind of logic would be akin to me saying that I believe that abortion is genocide and morally reprehensible, and so I am going to subject my daughter to an abortion so that she will know how to deal with it. Her going through an abortion would be Ok for the purpose of training her, and it also will prove moral superiority to others less morally inclined than myself? Ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

    For those who say that Conservatives do not uphold Obama when they happen to agree, let me say the following: Obama is RIGHT when he agrees with Bush and Americans from all walks of life that the enhanced forms of interrogation that are used, supervised, and performed in accordance to a consensus of legal opinion and are to be used as a last resort.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 5:56 PM
  • reminds me of an old german poem

    First the came for the communists and I said nothing, I was not a communist

    Next they came for the trade unionists and I said nothing, i was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews and I said nothing, I was not a jew.

    Then they came for me and there was no one left to say anything.

    The majority of the people who go into that kind of training know what they are getting into and choose to do it. They dont take you to basic training and water board you. Another point is that the people who have had this done to them call it torture. Not enhanced interrogation.

    You are simply comapring apples to oranges. It is not the same thing no matter how many times you post here that it is. Saying it over and over does not make it the same.

    I guess the golden rule is something you dont believe in. Perhaps yours is do unto others as they are doing to you. Is that really how you live your life? Someone dings your car door so you ding theirs? Someones dog craps in your yard so you go crap in theirs? Yours is a sad sad life.

    -- Posted by president obama on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 6:15 PM
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    GI -- once again what you call "torture" is not defined as such either by our military, government, past or present, or in the international conventions I have looked at. You too, suffer from the dawg syndrome in that you are trying to make a personal opinion into the law of the land. This in spite of the fact that people from opposite ends of the political spectrum agree it is NOT torture.

    I believe abortion in the U.S. is genocide, but for now it is still legal. I will continue to work to change that law through the system we have. Especially since the unborn are totally defenseless and the most vulnerable of all people. When they come to force me to be complicit in abortion against my religious convictions then I will accept the consequences of disobeying that law.

    dawg -- repeating your opinion over and over does not make true either, and you are the one comparing apples to oranges. I can call listening to MSNBC torture, and it is terribly uncomfortable like waterboarding is, but that doesn't necessarily make it truly torture. I only applied the rule of law to a situation which you don't like, but for whatever it is worth, many on both sides of the ideological isle agree it is NOT TORTURE.

    You also still stubbornly fail to see the fallacy in your lack of common sense in that, whether you refuse to believe it not, waterboarding is used in military training and it is not "torture" as defined under the conventions of war. Otherwise, your progressive messiah wouldn't use it either.

    If we were "doing unto others" in your "logic" we would be slicing off body parts one by one, pulling out fingernails, raping their wives in front of them, and such. Those are the apples and oranges in the real world you refuse to acknowledge. Do you see the fallacy of your comparison? Your worldview is one of arrogant self righteousness in believing that there can be no international guidelines to follow in war -- only your own. You need to come out of your cocoon. We could also follow your incremental approach to self destruction by becoming an isolationist backwater in the real world where evil flourishes. Sit back in your recliner, entertain yourself, and let others try to make the world a better place for all people.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 7:02 PM
  • *

    Speaking of the moral relativism of the secular fundamentalists. Sorry if I left out traditional Judaism, Hindus, and other faiths as being against abortion too. I just mentioned the two largest ones to make my point. That would account for what percentage of the world's population being morally opposed to abortion?

    We must also remember that Hippocratic medicine and the oath that supports it, basically says "Do No Harm to the Patient". Reports are now coming out from a National Cancer Institute study in 2009 once again stating the correlations in abortion to increased risk of breast cancer in some patients, not to mention increased risk of substance abuse, suicide, and problems in later pregnancies.

    Yes, abortion does indeed harm both the mother and unborn child. While the mother suffers too, the heinous result is that the child millions have been exterminated in such fashion since Roe v Wade. Think about it...especially those of you who call yourselves "Christians" and are worried about waterboarding.

    Until ALL human beings, and especially the untold millions of the most vulnerable and defenseless ones (preborn) have equal protection under the law, you abortionists can't complain too loudly (without hypocrisy) about the death penalty for convicted murders, waterboarding in times of war, snail darters dying, saving the whales, and such. Our nation will continue to have no moral high ground and pulpit from which to preach true morality and basic goodness to the so-called "developing world".

    God bless those like in the Anglican communities in Nigeria for example, who are taking a stand against the secular fundamentalism in their denomination in the West that are hell-bent on destroying the Christian Faith.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 7:30 PM
  • -- Posted by president obama on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 8:44 PM
  • *

    Hey guys you'll have to do much better than that to convince me of your sick and twisted reasoning. McCain is entitled to his opinion, I heard it in '08 when he was trying to be PC and running for office, but his opinion does not necessarily shape mine or even the majority of Americans. Like many career Pols he tends to roll with the daily tracking polls. But, if it's any consolation to you, I disagree with him on a number of issues. As a Vet I do respect his service and sacrifice, and his pro-life stance so far, but I only voted for him as the lesser of two evils. As a Vet I also recognize your potential for ignorance of meaningful and sacrificial service to ones' country. You want the government to be your saviour and to give you your supposed entitlements.

    So, get back to me with your faux moral outrage when you begin to respect all human life, yes even the most vulnerable and defenseless ones. I will not be lectured about the non-torture of waterboarding by those who condone and are complicit in the extermination of millions of unborn children in the name of "choice".

    Your secular humanistic fundamentalism is a religion in its own right to be sure. It is a fundamentalism you want forced upon all who believe in God. Your smug "tolerance" stops at the end of your own immorality and you want all traces of other "competing" religions erased from our schools, and public display. The difference is that your religion is based upon self-deification and a worship of your own ego. You believe everything came from nothing, and that you evolved from some primordial soup by random chance and are the beginning and end of all that exists. You are probably not even sure of your own existence. Please, wax philosophical on me.

    So, I can never accept your absurd premise of having even the most basic of moral standards for judging those who seek to save and protect all human life. Yours is the rank religion of moral relativism that we see pervading more and more of our society. You believe that concepts such as right and wrong, goodness and evil, or truth and falsehood are not absolutes, but change from culture to culture and from situation to situation. That is also why in your twisted arrogance you think you are able to "morally" state that waterboarding is "torture", but genocide is just fine.

    I just saw "The Bucket List" and thought of you two afterwards. You might want to check it out and reflect on which character you represent, your humanity, morality, and mortality. Yes, even your eternal state. What if you died tomorrow? Are you absolutely sure there is no righteous God?

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 10:59 PM
  • I guess that falls under, "abortion is legal so you are allowed to do anything" line of thinking.

    People can torture other people because of abortion? Thats one line in defence of torture I had not ever heard of. Perhaps some of the people who O.K.ed torture should try that next time they have to sit in front of a senate panal. Sounds like a good line of defence.

    -- Posted by president obama on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 11:17 PM
  • Guille,

    Didn't you mean "goofball" rather than "screwball" in this last post? You usually go with that one. Some lighthearted late night conversation is in order on this blog. Res Just.

    -- Posted by Resilient Justice on Sat, Jan 16, 2010, at 11:20 PM
  • Isn't it the funniest thing. The Most liberal State is about to lose it's most Sacred Senate Seat to a no name Republican.

    I bet the DNC in Massachusetts is drinking Pepto Bismol out of the bottle.

    -- Posted by wallismarsh on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 11:30 AM

    This is sort of a stupid example, yet it is another example of how the Democrats really don't get anything about what a lot of people think is really important.

    -- Posted by wallismarsh on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 11:45 AM
  • *

    Pro Lifers

    Don't be discouraged or silenced by some of the bitter, angry, irrational, and misleading posts on these threads. Remember, no matter how much false and relative morality is preached from the altar of secular humanistic fundamentalism, we have science, our conscience, common sense, and even God's moral authority on our side. Working in health care I have seen the incredible advances in medical imagery that now allow women to see stunning details of their unborn children. Even just this technology alone has increasingly proven to pregnant women beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are indeed carrying an unborn child in their womb, even from the first trimester. More are starting to choose life over death through God's majesty displayed in science.

    Also, for the first time in many years, the majority of Americans believe that abortion is wrong. The word is slowly getting out in spite of the abortion lobby and the complicity of the Lame Stream Media, we are making headway against the propaganda of the abortionists. No matter how hard they rant, slander, libel, and insult us, we have to keep up the task before us, and not be timid about the protection of all human life. God willing Roe v Wade can, and will be, overturned in this decade.

    More encouraging news: With the increasing gains against pro-abortion politicos in even Dem strongholds so far (e.g. Virginia & New Jersey), and even to the point of a conservative possibly taking over Teddy Kennedy's seat, we will keep the momentum rolling. A number of other liberals have already called it quits and have announced that they are not running for reelection in 2010. Obama's poll numbers, even by MSM CBS statistics are at and unprecedented low of 46% - unheard of for a first year president.

    However, we should stand with those Democrats who are pro-life like Bart Stupak and his gang of 40 who got life protections in the House bill. Unfortunately, Ben Nelson sold us out for his 30 pieces of a Medicaid bribe (Cornhusker Kickback), but it is doubtful he will be reelected in 2012 in part because no pro-life group will support him again.

    All in all, it portends to be a good year for setting our nation back on the path to Faith, freedom, and prosperity. Keep up the good fight!

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 11:59 AM
  • *

    Wow Carl, you actually had to pull out the 'R' word. You get the special prize. Isn't your rule: the first one to lose an argument should pull out the race card?

    Torture is never OK and that is why I am against it, like Bush, Obama, and most Americans. Your problem is that what you say is "torture" and its not, is actually worse than the systematic extermination of millions of defenseless unborn children? Yeah, I'm sure most Americans would agree with that one!

    No wonder those in Darfur, Congo, and Rwanda hold their noses when the pro-abortion U.N. comes in and tries to play the moral majority in regards to genocide. What will you tell "God" when He asks you about all those defenseless babies you were complicit in killing? Actually, some things don't even need to be refuted, only stated...

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 3:00 PM
  • *

    Good vs. Evil

    Alexander Solzhenitsyn was a Russian-born historian and writer. He was exiled from the Soviet Union in 1974, but returned in 1994. His novels and speeches made the world aware of the Communist Russian Gulag, or forced labor camps. Some of his more powerful writing drew a contrast between attempts at confronting evil. Solzhenitsyn gives a personal witness to his discovery of the source of all evil, in a passage at the end of the first volume of "The Gulag Archipelago".

    "It was granted me to carry away from my prison years on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good.

    In the intoxication of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel.

    In the surfeit of power I was a murderer, and an oppressor.

    In my most evil moments I was convinced that I was doing good, and I was well supplied with systematic arguments.

    And it was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself the first stirrings of good.

    Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either - but right through every human heart - and through all human hearts."

    {II Timothy 3:1-17}

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 3:11 PM
  • *

    GI -- In the unrevised history books I believe that the fine Christian man William Wilberforce in England got the ball rolling on slavery. Beyond that Lincoln and the majority of Northerners who were Christians risked their blood and the fabric of our nation to abolish slavery. Do you really only listen to Maher, Olbermann, and Matthews?

    Karl M. -- You're the only one here who brought race into this and we know that is a common tactic by those whose logic, reason, and arguments can't hold up to inspection. Let me see though, by your condoning the genocide of the unborn of every race one could postulate that you are a Multi-ethic Genocidal Racist. By your standards that should work, but I won't play your little race-baiting game because that would bring me down to your level. I would really prefer to think that your conscience has been seared beyond repair by the indoctrination you got somewhere in your secular humanist education (college?).

    Show me where the majority of all Americans (not just liberals) believe enhanced interrogations are what you falsely call "torture"? The last time I looked, I saw polls going either way depending on who was being asked and how the question was put. Anyway I don't base my worldview and convictions on polling data. Once again, your messiah, his administration, the Justice Department, and Dems in Congress still support it just like under Bush. We use it on our own troops as part of training. I went through the E&E course and no one there ever considered it torture. You know nothing about the military and are just another ignorant peacenik, so get a grip on yourself...

    To continue, Obama has shown by his enormous flip flop on Rendition and the Patriot Act, that once he got all the facts, he realized it was not torture. Otherwise we must believe it was just another of his lies to get elected. Hey, you want to disagree with the guys who Lied to you to get elected, then that's fine with me. If you want to change it, knock yourself out and do something constructive instead trying to defend genocide of the unborn.

    Come on Karl, discomfort over simulated drowning and what you call "visions of death" cannot even compare with the ACTUAL DEATH that occurs to millions of babies during an abortion where the child is killed in the womb of it's mother and sucked out with a vacuum device and then disposed of in a dumpster or sent off to the embryonic stem cell lab for Josef Mengele-type experiments. I would strongly suggest that you fire up a search engine and look at some ultrasounds of first trimester babies. Is your mind really that numb to the value of human life -- ALL life?!

    I've stated this in another post, but I'll try it one more time for your sake. Even if you as a "Christian" disregard what the Bible says about God forming humans in the womb, human life has to begin at conception because that is where the catalytic event starts. Before that time there is no life, nothing, and it is only when the egg and sperm, which come from totally independent sources, unite to give the spark of divine life.

    At any point after that time, the beginning of life is not based on any scientific or medical consensus and is a grossly arbitrary presumption. You might as well just pull numbers out of a hat. Maybe because you also disregard God's word about humans being created in His image in the womb, and hold to the THEORY of atheistic Darwinian evolution, you must believe that some form of incredibly rapid evolution occurs in the mother's womb within three months? Karl, you really slay me....

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 5:13 PM
  • *

    GI -- our budding "roughly" atheist arises from the ashes!

    Please, let me know how your fellow atheists were involved in slavery, and how many died to end slavery. I don't think you'll choose to answer that one without more insults.

    I'm sure they were probably just poking around in some mud hole looking for their infamous and still-missing "missing link". But, as usual, you either willfully prooftext and take verses out of their context, or you really are just an ignorant and bitter atheist. In any case, the verses you quoted do not condone slavery. If looked at in their cultural context and the broader context even you will see that your deductive reasoning is invalid.

    Since slavery was legal in the Roman Empire Paul is quite plainly telling slaves who became Christians to continue to submit to their masters for the sake of submitting to legal authority and for reasons of testimony to the Faith. If you can't at least see the testimony aspect in these verses then there is little hope. Also, in keeping with the totality of Scripture and not just your cheery picking (i.e. abusive prooftexting) of verses, we also see Paul patiently and lovingly moving slaveholders who converted to Christianity to free their slaves. Hopefully, you can find Philemon in a Bible somewhere.

    Anyone who abused a normative hermeneutic in teaching the Bible to promote slavery since the first century is guilty as charged. However, your constant abuse of painting entire religions for the sins of some is no better, convoluted at best and your logic is reprehensible worst. You will judged as they will for willful sin and rejection of truth.

    "Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man". Luke 6:22

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 6:29 PM
  • *

    Since you lump all who claim a religion or ideology into the sins of the few, I can now state that since you are an atheist/roughly agnostic and statist, then like your comrade statists Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the like, you are responsible for the murder of untold millions. It also follows that your/their entire system and ideology is worthless, a cancer, and blight on humanity, and any abuse of pure Leninism by anyone reflects on you. Hey, I like that!

    In any case, you still can't refute the facts on slavery, or why the majority of Americans are turning against your recently exposed eugenics agenda to kill babies, the elderly, and other "undesirables" you deem of no productive use to the collective. The more I try to image you the more I see someone on one of those Borg mother ships trying to absorb others into the "collective" and the others are destroyed or cast out. I now just realized that all this time the Borg were a foreshadowing of your beloved statism!

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 6:47 PM
  • *

    GI - your hypocrisy is apparent in painting me with the same brush as you do others. You keep telling me what my faith says and what I supposedly believe, etc. However, since you continue to insult the intelligence of every poster who disagrees with you I decided to try an experiment based your own tactics -- although with no where near the venom you typically use. Didn't like it did you?

    When you talk like an atheist by questioning the existence of God, you bash Christianity at every turn, and deny the authority and inspiration of the Bible, then I feel free to call you as talk -- roughly atheistic. So, when you decide that whatever game you are playing is up, until then take it like a mature adult and not a spoiled little brat who always has to have the last word. I have not been the only one to note your arrogance, brinksmanship, and insults.

    Now that I got that out cleared up -- If you want a more in-depth look at slavery as it relates to the Bible, try doing a search on something to that effect. I'm sure you will find all takes on it. Atheistic, roughly agnostic, pro-slavery, Islamic, Hindu, Protestant, and Catholic. Of course you relish stirring the pot for the sake of controversy.

    I will say this, as far as the O.T. goes you should keep in mind that all known cultures up to at least the time of Christ held slaves in one form or another, at some point in their history. That is not to absolve them, but just to state a fact pertaining to the issue at hand. Also, the slavery under Judaism was typically more like that of indentured servants, mainly for purposes of paying off debts or family obligations. According to Mosaic Law that person would work for 6 years, but more like a house servant and not like the slaves in some other cultures at the time. The Israelites, for example, worked as slaves performing hard labor under the Egyptians for approximately 400 years.

    Also you might find it interesting to note that black African Animists and Muslims also enslaved each other and even sold many of their slaves to the Europeans, Americas, and Arabs. Although no culture is free from the guilt of slavery I don't believe there is any Scriptural support to say that God Himself ordained it. We know He created beings in His own image and with a free will to make decisions. Of course, sin reigned in man's rebellious heart and he has entertained sin ever since. Another example is in that God did not ordain polygamy or divorce, but we know that Moses himself allowed the Israelites to do it because of the "hardness of their hearts".

    Also, not all the Founders held or endorsed slavery either. In fact, that is why many believe that Declaration of Independence contained specific wording; "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL men are created equal, that THEY are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". At the time though, and for the sake of unity in forming the nation, that wasn't enforced, and the rest is history as they say, up until the time of Civil War.

    Thank God that slavery in the West was abolished, but it still exists in various forms in other parts of the world. The truth be known, in the distant past, at one time or another, our ancestors were oft times either slaves or slave masters.

    -- Posted by NebraskaMark on Sun, Jan 17, 2010, at 9:21 PM
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