Having Fun In Liberal States

Posted Thursday, October 22, 2009, at 7:38 PM
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  • New Jersey put the can't pump your own gas law in place as it would supposedly be cheaper for the motorist to get gas with less theft and all. The law has been on the books for many years now. I know for awhile they were, I don't know if that is the case today.

    I also see signs at the gas stations here in Indiana saying not to top off and once you tank is full and it clicks not to squeeze the trigger again trying to get as much as you can in the tank.

    The reason? The new nozzles they have are shorter then the longer ones were used to in Nebraska. When you fill up the gas is almost to the opening, clicking it a few more times cause your tank to over fill and gas spill out down the side of your car.

    -- Posted by npwinder on Thu, Oct 22, 2009, at 11:20 PM
  • Sam, you dog you! This is a subject that hits home, because I am from Oregon. My God, you're right on the money as usual. I was home visiting relatives two weeks ago in Bend Oregon, and we went out to dinner. On the salad bar in the restaurant, there were two large signs proclaiming: Oregon State Law: You must use a clean plate on each trip to the salad bar! I had to laugh. If I wanted to take my salad plate and run back to the salad bar and grab another melon, then I would be violating Oregon law. Oregon is like some other liberal "strongholds" as you called them. The state is really conservative, but dominated by Portland, Salem and Eugene. These people are not even liberals, they are freaked out leftists crazies. I appreciate you buddy.

    -- Posted by RMontana on Fri, Oct 23, 2009, at 10:42 PM
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    Monte! I wondered where you have been. Thanks for your comments. I am in Idaho now, Thank God!

    I never go to hyper-leftists states like Oregon without feeling like I am in a bad World War 2 movie...an American on a mission in a Communist land. I have to try and complete my mission in a hostile environment without the commies finding out I am an American! I let my long hair out from under my hat, and try and act like a hippie.

    Monte - has the DOT in Oregon always been as abusive as they are now? They treat truck drivers like terrorists in Oregon, I've never seen anything like it. It seems like they are on a mission to destroy the trucking industry.

    Glad to hear from you Monte. God Bless.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Fri, Oct 23, 2009, at 11:04 PM
  • Sam, glad to catch you when you are online. The truth is pal, that the liberals in Oregon attack almost all industry. They go after the timber people, the fishing industry, and yet they desperately need these industries to fund all their liberalism. I suspect the reason they are brutalizing truckers right now is money. The State needs money, and truckers are an easy target. You live in Nebraska, are you going to come back to Oregon to stand before some liberal judge to try and fight a bogus ticket? You'll just pay it and go on because it would cost a fortune to fight it and the liberal judge will get you anyway. God Bless you as well Sam. Keep the faith.

    -- Posted by RMontana on Fri, Oct 23, 2009, at 11:30 PM
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    I know that you are right. The shame about Oregon is that it is such a beautiful state, and the liberal infestation is sad sad sad. But that is the essence of liberalism, taking what was beautiful and making it ugly. Look what the left has done to California.

    I picked up a California radio station while in Oregon, and on the news, it was reported Gov. Arnold was upset that so many State Employees were collecting overtime. The reporter said that thousands of State Of CA employees where collecting over a 150K a year just in overtime.

    This is what happens when you have a State that is held hostage by public employee unions. Business owners are evil (to the left) if they make this kind of money, but state employees, barely working an 8 hour day can sure rake it in.

    Gotta run Monte. Stay in touch.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 12:10 AM
  • *

    Enjoyed this post. Thank you.

    -- Posted by CandyKilroy on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 2:24 PM
  • You mentioned the "ruin" of California--the reality is a large percentage of the problems California now faces is due to the passage of prop 13 by the Far Right years ago. About five years ago I purchased a home and the property taxes immediately went from $650 per year to just over $3000 per year the minute escrow closed thanks to a bad law from the far right.

    You also mentioned the "1000's" of state workers raking in overtime in California. A more accurate figure is "100's" of state workers and those are prison guards who are understaffed, police who are under staffed, and firefighters who are under staffed.

    What you failed to acknowledge is that the vast majority of state workers in California are currently experiencing a reduction in salary due to mandatory furlough days for all state employees except those such as direct law enforcement.

    (And no, I do not work for the state of California)

    In true Rush "the Fascist" Limbaugh style you exaggerate the truth until it becomes irrelevant in reality.

    The Far Right in California just this past winter deposed the Republican leader in the state senate because he had the common sense to work with the Democrats to craft a budget good for the state of California and supported by the Republican governor, the Far Right Republicans are a minority in California yet expect the majority to cater to their every desire with no compromise on their, the minorities, part.

    Perhaps the most damaging instance in undermining the state of California was a few years back when a disgruntled wealthy far right fascist Republican

    donated $1.5 million dollars to fund a recall of the sitting governor because the out of touch Republicans had failed to win even one state wide office in the previous election. Their "issues" against the sitting governor? The fact he followed the law and made a provision in the law effective which raised vehicle license taxes. The law had been enacted several years before reducing the vehicle license tax with the provision that the tax be re-instated when state revenues fell. The other "issue" was the energy supply contracts the governor had been forced to negotiate with the folks at Enron, who it was later proven had completely and illegally manufactured the energy shortage to falsely drive the price of energy up.

    Another example of far right chicanery.

    My hope and prayer for our country is that neither the far right fascists nor the far left socialists have their way.

    And as far as not topping off the gas tank--it does improve air quality when gas tanks aren't topped off making it easier for all of us to breath, especially those of us with breathing issues. Amen to better air quality.

    I truly believe a true patriot is one who looks objectively at all sides of an issue and works to effect the best solution for the greatest good.

    That is what has made the United States the greatest nation on Earth and it is the philosophy that will maintain that standing for our great republic.

    -- Posted by ontheleftcoast on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 2:36 PM
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    ontheleftcoast - nice try, really. Blaming the right for the insanity of the left in Cailfornia.

    As usual, you don't know what you are talking about.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 7:54 PM
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    The facts are as follows. It was not hundreds of employees earning overtime,it was thousands. California has paid out over 2.1 billion in overtime in the past five years, including:

    Overtime for state cops, 12,463 of its 14,082 cops. More than a hundred bro.

    The department of forestry paid overtime to 10,191 of its 11,336 employees. More than a hundred Bro.

    Sure, there have been efforts over the past years to stop the liberal insanity in California, including various props to stem the growth of government employee unions. It hasn't stopped the government's growth.

    In Sacramento county alone there are over seventy thousand state employees.

    The State auditor criticized UNION CONTRACTS at the Mental Health Departments which lets employees to claim overtime even if they have been off work for other parts of the pay period.

    Nurses that were earning $78K per year were earning an additional $99K in overtime. Nice.

    Of course, the small business people who carry the burden of the runaway California government, don't have that kind of luxury. Most small business people work allot more than forty hours a week, and then they get criticized by the likes of you. It gets **** old.

    I have a hard time understanding you leftists crazies. You act like you know so much and yet you are so incredibly ignorant. I guess we owe a special thanks to the indoctrination system that produces robots instead of educated citizens.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 8:12 PM
  • I am glad you don't like it in Oregon Sam. As far as I am concerned why don't you just refuse to take any loads that transit through this state and everyone will be happy. That is the beauty of the State system that we have in this country. Those of us in Oregon get to decide what is important to us and you can decide what is important to you in Nebraska.

    At one time those on the "right" stood for states rights so us "loonies" are just exercising our right to determine our own future.

    -- Posted by Kurt on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 8:42 PM
  • What are you people going to do when all you have is a sharp stick and maybe a hand full of seeds.And if they are hybrid seed that's not going to reproduce any more seeds.Hope you like your plastic,like your computers an"OIL"base product.

    -- Posted by orville on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 10:02 PM
  • Mr. Kurt,

    What about me chum? I was born in Oregon. I have family in Oregon. Sam brought up honest issues about liberal stupidity and how it adversely effects my home State, and you answer in a smug and silly manner. The family and friends that I have in Oregon agree with Sam, and not you. You ought to have enough intestinal fortitude to accept some honest and correct criticism. I find it ironic that liberals like you never want states rights, now all of a sudden you are a states rights guy. If you want to accept what the Oregon State Legislature says about you Mr. Kurt, that you are too dumb to pump your own gas, well ok. Instead of concerning themselves with who pumps the gas into our cars, or a clean salad bar plate, they ought to do something about the more than 10% unemployment in Oregon. I know Sam, and he always talks of the beauty and wonder of Oregon and it's rich resources. We both are heartbroken at what liberal government has done to turn a fabulous state into wackoville. I will not stay out of Oregon Mr. Kurt, and I will help my family and friends in Oregon fight those like you and the libs in Portland, Eugene and Salem.

    Sam, the sheer arrogance of liberals never ceases to amaze me.

    -- Posted by RMontana on Sat, Oct 24, 2009, at 11:20 PM
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    Hey Kurt, nice to hear from you. I can understand you taking the attitude you did, but I am big fan of Oregon. We could agree I think, that God did some of His best work in Oregon.

    I have cut back on the trips I take to Oregon because of the abusive State Government. I have always found you to be quite reasonable Kurt, maybe you'll give me a chance to explain what I mean.

    Upon coming into Oregon, I was weighed and run through a Port Of Entry three times in a 200 mile stretch. Oregon has over sixty Ports of Entry, and a conservative State like Utah has eight, Nebraska has seven.

    You are paying for all those employees in all those Ports duplicating government services. Why does Oregon have all those weigh stations? I think it is an intimidation factor. Why would government want to intimidate hard working business people?

    One port, near Umatilla, weighed me with a load and I delivered my load one mile from the Port. Thirty minutes later I come back by that same Port that just weighed me, and they brought me in again, even empty.

    Now come on Kurt buddy, that is just a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money. It appears to be a pattern in liberal dominated States that business, especially small business, is an enemy of the State, and that is just wrong.

    It has been my privilege to travel extensively all through Oregon. I have been to some areas and seen marvelous sights that are hard to describe, from Christmas Valley, out in the Oregon wilderness, to what may be the most beautiful city in America at night, Portland.

    Oregon needs me (folks like me) and we need Oregon. I am taking lumber right now from one of your sawmills in NE Oregon to Colorado.

    You have to remember when folks in Oregon were complaining about the Californication of Oregon, and that certainly is apparent in Oregon State Government, dominated by the three big liberal cities.

    David Horowitz, a former Communist, now a guy who fights Communists, points out that the Universities in Oregon are incredibly stacked and packed with far leftist loons, and dominated by Marxists thought. Doesn't that concern you?

    From my conversations with you over the past months, I think you are definitely left of center, but I would not classify you as a raving crazy Marxist or an America hater.

    Monte (RMontana) and I have discussed with sadness what we think is an invasive liberal/commie lib government in Oregon, while the State, outside of Portland, Eugene and Salem is really very Conservative.

    If you allow you liberal government to drive out the independent owner operators, you are going to find that you Kurt, are going to be paying allot more for goods, especially construction goods. AND you will find that Oregon products will be more expensive in the big USA market. That is not good for you, me, or Oregon.

    Monte has had some family members that have had to seek jobs in my part of the country, due mainly to what THEY describe is an oppressive liberal government run amok in Oregon.

    Thanks for you comments Kurt, and I am always glad to hear from you. I don't want to stay out of Oregon, It's beautiful, but the Californication of the State is taking a toll.

    Monte - I'd like to give Kurt a bit of a break. He is not the usual wacko lib. I understand how you feel about the Californication of Oregon because it's your home, and your folks live there, and property taxes are going up up up up, with no end in sight. However, there are allot of good folks in the State, and Oregon has much to offer. All we need do is stand against the usual liberal tyranny, and maybe the State can be the paradise God intended.

    Thanks for reading, and God Bless.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Sun, Oct 25, 2009, at 4:30 PM
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    Kurt - Also want to mention the Oregon Coast. Truly marvelous, my favorite little coastal town is Newport. I have taken my family there on vacation, and it was fantastic.

    -- Posted by sameldridge on Sun, Oct 25, 2009, at 4:49 PM
  • Nebraska has the "use a clean plate every trip to the salad bar law." I'd be more surprised if there was one state that didn't have it. Even the National Restaurant Association says Salad bars and Buffets should have a sign posted reminding customers to use a clean plate. Last thing on section two.


    It's not a liberal thing, its a food safety thing.

    Rather then have someone get a their food go back to their table and eat. Then do something like sneeze. Talk for a few decide they want something like pudding. Take the same plate they probably got some snot on even if they covered their nose. go back and get the pudding. Then tap the spoon on their plate to get it off the spoon and contaminating the pudding for the next person.

    Or what about the people that leave partial bits of food on their plate, then go get more food. Rather then risk having bits of food falling off a plate into other good food, its easier to make sure people use a clean plate. just think if they just took the piece of left over food out of the pudding and moved on without anyone else catching it.

    Neither one of the scenarios are far fetched.

    -- Posted by npwinder on Sun, Oct 25, 2009, at 11:15 PM
  • Stupid and inane laws aren't exclusive to "liberal" states.

    For instance,

    In Nebraska, it's illegal for people with STDs to marry.

    In Mississippi, it's illegal for a man to "seduce" a woman by promising to marry her.

    In Montana, it's illegal for bands who play in clubs who serve alcohol to leave the stage during the show.

    In Utah, alcohol may not be sold during an emergency.

    In South Carolina, you must be 18 to play a pinball machine.

    In Texas, it's a crime to own more than 6 sex toys (intent to sell, haha).

    Also in Texas, it's illegal for atheists to hold public office. (less funny than the previous Texas law).

    Now, not all of these laws are actually still enforced, but my point is that EVERY state has some quirky laws. And sometimes, people from other states will think these laws are strange, or even outright ridiculous.

    But, each state is allowed to have it's own flavor. The blue states are allowed to enact environmental legislation that the red-stater's find to be stupid and burdensome, and the red states are allowed to enact socially restrictive laws that blue-stater's find draconian and puritanical.

    The people of Oregon voted to keep their full-service gas station law. Some people wanted to make sure gas pumpers didn't lose their jobs. Some people had environmental concerns. Some people had safety concerns. And some people just wanted to keep a practice that they thought made their state unique. Whatever, their reasons, the majority of the people there voted to require full-service gas stations. That's democracy. You don't have to like it. Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. ;)

    -- Posted by jhat on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 2:08 PM
  • Sam,

    When you respond the way you just did rather than attack and use broad labels to paint people into one extreme corner or another; those corners being on one hand liberal, marxist, socialist and on the other conservative, right wing christian, Glen Beck loving radicals on the right, I have a sense that communication might be possible. The reality is that the fringe elements on both the left and the right only make up a very small percentage of Americans and the vast majority are somewhere in between. I believe very strongly that if reasonable people from either side of the political spectrum would sit down and discuss their fears and concerns we would find out that they have more in common than they realize. We will certainly never find common ground by screaming and yelling at each other and using negatively tinged generalizations to describe our so called "opponents".

    The first time I posted on this site I was attacked as a Marxist/socialist by you and was quite dumbfounded because I am certainly not a Marxist. I do have some well thought out beliefs that there are certain societal issues such as health care, armed forces, education, police and fire services that should be considered part of the "commons" and therefore a government role would be appropriate. I guess you could therefore label me a socialist in a very narrow aspect of the term. All of the above except health care are already considered part of the commons and of course one of the big issues of the day is health care. I do not want to get into the pros/cons of a government role in health care in this forum as the issue is to complicated to discuss in such a limited media as blogs. If we can agree that the current system is broken then let's leave it at that for now.

    I have a strong libertarian bent and in many aspects of life and politics I want the government to stay out of my business. I understand that government can often be overbearing for small business owners such as yourself and I. My father was a small business owner in Northwest Kansas and it seemed as if he was always having issues with the state or federal government, some of it he brought on himself for sure but I'm certain that once he was on their "list" it only made him more of a target. I digress....

    I know Oregon is not a perfect state but I also know that we have a representative government that in most cases reflects the wishes of the people of this state. We are certainly more to the "left" than are many states in the mid-west and South but for the most part that is again a reflection of the wishes of the majority of the people that live here. The rural/urban divide is real and I have an affinity for the farmers and rachers that live in the Eastern rural areas of Oregon since I was raised in rural America. Reasonable people in Oregon from the rural and city areas are reaching out to each other in an attempt to understand each other but it just doesn't get the publicity that it should. We are all in this together and the old tactic of divide and conquer does not serve anyone well except for the political parties that are only worried about keeping themselves in power.

    In these difficult and transformative times it is imperative that reasonable people stop and take a deep breath when we sense our fear and anxiety is beginning to overcome us. If we can avoid labeling people and set aside our confusion and try to see an issue from the other perspective, if only to gain some insight, then I strongly believe that as a people and a country we can come out of these times a more compasionate, free, healthy and unified people. I do not want to even consider the alternative.

    On a lighter note...Oregon is a very beautiful state and a wonderful place to live, despite our liberal bent and recognized shortcomings. I live inland from Newport and often ride my motorcycle along the coast. For those who have never had the opportunity to see this beautiful place, I wold encourage you to put it on your schedule at some time.

    Here is to civil discouse!!!

    "May we see not only with our two eyes, but with the one eye which is our HEART." Black Elk

    -- Posted by Kurt on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 4:06 PM
  • Sam

    Thought the discussion was about the current state of affairs, not the last five years.

    The irony to me is that out here I am definately considered slightly right of center--it truly is a matter of perspective.

    Have a good life.

    -- Posted by ontheleftcoast on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 5:47 AM
  • Left Coast, Maybe my pal Sam was a bit to intense. I get that way as well. Perhaps Kurt is right, that we all may have a lot more in common than we think. I do have one question I'd like to ask you good people on the left. I am just curious. This is the question, In America today, are we (a) under governed (b) over governed or (c) government is just the right size. Have a good life as well. I hope you're not going anywhere (lol).

    -- Posted by RMontana on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 9:05 AM
  • RMontana,

    My answer to your question, as someone whom you would consider someone from "the left".

    First of all, it depends on what you mean by governed. Regulations? Laws? The extent the government controls a certain service (military, medicare, etc.)? The size of said programs?

    For the sake of my response, I'll assume all of the above fit into the category of "governance".

    My response:

    a, b, & c

    In some areas, we are over-governed, in some we are under-governed, and in others we have just about the right amount of government.

    To go slightly more in depth on my answer.

    Civil Liberties: OVER-governed

    I consider myself to be a bit of a civil libertarian. I don't believe the government should take as big a role in our private lives, or make laws restricting activities that do not harm others.

    For example:

    I believe drugs should be legal. Not because I want to do drugs, or think anyone should do drugs. But because the act of smoking a joint, or taking ecstasy, or even shooting heroine does not harm another citizen, only yourself. Everyone has a right to do whatever they want to their body, even it is harmful or lethal. The government should not regulate that. (Though I do think the government should financially support rehabilitation centers for people who are trying to get off drugs).

    Another example:

    I believe that gay marriage should be legal. Because it should not be up to the government to decide what marriages are valid/legal. Whether it's immoral or unethical shouldn't matter (though I don't think it is). The government is not the entity that should be making those kind of moralistic decisions. It should give marriage licenses to any people that want to start a life/family together. As far as religious marriage goes, if a church wants to marry 2 people, it should be able to, and the government should recognize it. And if the church doesn't wish to marry 2 people, the government should not be able to force the church to marry them.

    And as far as religion goes, I think the government should be completely neutral. It should not promote any religion or promote religion in general. Any allowance it makes to one religion must be given to any and all others. I'm not saying the government should be atheistic. They should not promote atheism. The government should just be silent on the matter.

    Healthcare: UNDER-governed

    My opinion is that the healthcare industry needs to be reigned in with tighter regulation. The anti-trust exemption they enjoy needs to be gotten rid of. Far too often there are only a small number of providers, or sometimes just one, for an entire region. They must be forced to compete. It should not be legal for companies to deny coverage on paperwork technicalities if you've paid your premiums. And people with pre-existing conditions MUST be able to get insurance. And something must be done to prevent people from going bankrupt from health insurance costs.

    Banking/Financial Sector: UNDER-governed

    Too many deregulations of the financial industry have happened in last decade.

    For instance, the Grahmm-Leach-Bliley act repealed the 1933 Glass Stegall act and allowed for the creation of companies that were "too big to fail".

    The government did not keep a close enough eye on the financial sector, and the house of cards collapsed.

    Before I'm accused of being a "socialist", I don't think we should nationalize the banks. Just regulate them tighter. After we bailed them out, they should have to play by some new rules.

    I don't like the idea of companies being nationalized (GM, AIG). But what I hope is that the government nationalized them so that they can help them quietly die (instead of crashing violently) OR so that they could get back on track and be sold back to private investors.

    And so on, and so forth.

    I'm not for big government, I don't think that we should wantonly give up control to the federal government.

    I'm not for small government, I don't think that getting rid of regulations and simply trusting the free market will have the best results.

    I'm for SMART government. I'm for the government regulating/running things that it does well. I'm for the government stepping in on the people's behalf to regulate corporations and big business. I'm for the government getting out of the way when the private sector can do a better job.

    -- Posted by jhat on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 2:05 PM
  • RMontana,

    I would second jhat's statements regarding the role of government as stated above. It is virtually a clone of my thoughts/ideas.

    -- Posted by Kurt on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 11:03 PM
  • Thanks Kurt.

    I just get really frustrated when people are so dogmatic about this topic. I can't stand people who say "more government is always answer" anymore than I can't stand people who say "government always screws it up. Less government is always the answer."

    Sometimes less government is the answer, sometimes more government is the answer. By coming in to the discussion with a dogmatic view of government always being good or bad, you're completely closed off to what might be the correct answer.

    And RMontana, I realize I was relatively brief and general on my thoughts about governance. I'd be happy to go into more detail on specific topics (gun control, foreign policy, etc).

    -- Posted by jhat on Wed, Oct 28, 2009, at 10:01 AM
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