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Welcome To The Freak ShowPosted Saturday, June 27, 2009, at 2:30 PM
My benchmark came August 15th / 1993 in Denver Colorado. Pope John Paul was in Denver for World Youth Day. A Denver Judge had ruled that Nuns would be subject to arrest, if they tried to talk to women outside of Denver's' abortion mill, Planned Parenthood at 20th and Vine. I was curious, would Denver Police arrest Nuns outside an abortion mill with Pope John Paul in town? Although I was pro-life at the time, I had kind of fallen for the propaganda put out by the pop culture, that abortion protestors were nuts or crazies...I had never been to an abortion protest. Frankly, I was just looking to see if the cops were going to arrest Nuns. I know Denver fairly well, so I parked some blocks away, and made my way down to the commotion at 20th & Vine. At the "clinic" I saw 150 teachers, surrounding the clinic. How do I know they were teachers? They were holding up signs, CEA, Colorado Education Association. Most were wearing blue shirts which said CEA in big letters. Across the street on the sidewalk, four nuns, one in a wheelchair, and one lone man in his thirties, walking along the sidewalk, his head bowed, and praying. Next to the five "protestors" were six Denver Police Officers, in full uniform. The Nuns were praying when the teachers broke into a song, using the melody of "the Flintstones", they sang, "Christians, kill the Christians!" At first I did not think I heard them right, but I sure had. They sang it over and over again, while the nuns prayed, and I watched. It got worse. Two dozen homosexuals and lesbians showed up. While the "protestors" (four nuns and a praying man) were not allowed any closer to the "clinic" than across the street, the H&L's (homosexuals and lesbians) were allowed to go anywhere they wanted. After talking to the teachers, the H&L's made their way over to the Nuns. It got ugly, as they surrounded the Nuns, and began cursing at them. One of the lesbians got in front of the Nun in a wheelchair, grabbed her own breasts and taunted the Nun. "I bet you'd like to get your hands on these sister!" Others in this group began to fondle each other and "make-out" it front of the Nuns. I walked over to the Policemen. "Are you guys going to let those idiots harass the Nuns?" I asked. I was told that if I really wanted to help the Nuns, then "get them the hell outta here." It got worse. I heard loud cheering coming from the teachers. Air horns sounded off, like someone had just scored a touchdown. Confetti flew into the air, and the wild cheering continued. Then I saw the reason for the celebration, a young woman, she looked like a teenager, had emerged from the "clinic". These folks were cheering at the death of her baby. Teachers were hugging each other, some were shedding tears of joy at this poor young girl, having just killed her precious gift from God. The girl ran off, as best she could. She wanted nothing to do with those cheering crazies. To this day, I can still see the face of that horrified teenager, as those folks cheered the taking of a human life. It got worse. The H&L's, after taking time to cheer with the teachers over the death of a child, once again directed their attentions to the Nuns and the now two men praying with them. Now they were kicking at the Nuns, and spitting on them, and getting more flamboyant with their sexual acts in front of the Nuns. I was standing by the Policeman. They were growing uneasy, and looking back and forth at each other. I was getting angry, no doubt, and I scolded the cops for not stopping the H&L's. Rightly so, I was told to "move on." I moved over, with another man, to the Nun in the wheelchair. The H&L's had her surrounded, and one lesbian had just spit in the Nuns' face. We steped in front of the wheelchair bound Nun. Before we knew it, the other man and I, and the Nun were surrounded by a dozen H&L's. One of them spit on me, and I fully intended to knock the spitter into the middle of next week. I say fully intended, because the other man with me, a Denver Pastor, grabbed my arm, and shouted at me over the noise and confusion. "You will go to jail if you throw a punch." He asked me to remain calm, and help protect the Nuns. I settled down, and did just that. More cheering erupted, and air horns sounded off, and confetti was thrown in celebration of another woman emerging from the "clinic" as she hurried off. During that celebration, the Denver Pastor and I managed to get the Nuns moving, and closer to the Policemen. The H&L's, seeing that the Nuns were within a arms distance from the Police line, now joined the teachers to once again sing, "Christians, kill the Christians." I saw several Denver Post reporters and photographers that day as well. The next morning, I was surprised to see my face in the Denver Post, a picture shot to give the impression that I was a protester, trying to break through the wall of protection around the "clinic". No mention, of course, of the homosexuals assault on the Nuns, no mention of singing songs that advocating killing, no mention of cheering for dead babies, or the involvement of the teachers unions, just a propaganda piece, as usual, from the Denver Post. For years, my wife had been trying to convince me that Public Schools, especially in large cities, were going to hell. I thought we should keep our kids in Public Schools, and not let the leftists take over, but, after seeing those teachers that day, cheering for dead kids, I needed no more convincing. We took our kids out of Colorado Public Schools, and for a while, home schooled, until we found this community (Oberlin) where schools were still good, and teachers not necessarily crazed leftists. That day in August, 1993, I got a good look at the face of the new religious leftist threat to this country. That leftist threat has grown, thanks to a corrupted media and the takeover of the Democrat Party by goofballs and crazies. I am convinced that Truman, Kennedy, even Hubert Humphrey would be shocked out how today's Democrat Party has sold out to the most hateful and malicious elements of our society. Since 1993, I have tired to speak out, more and more. I was surprised to find out how many people, that call themselves conservatives, or moderates, refuse to believe just how dangerous the religious left really is. They don't want to have to fight, or speak out, or defend, they act like the left will just go away on its own. The religious left is a political cancer on America. Cancer can be fatal, but not always, sometimes you can beat it. Nowadays, as this political cancer tries to spread, in the form of Barack Obama and our descent into Statism, you folks have to face facts. The nutty left will push on and more destruction will occur, until we on the right, accept the fact that we are in a fight for the very survival of our nation. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Once again, sam takes the worst of a situation and assigns it to everyone else. He even manages to throw teachers in there somehow.
I do, however, question the validity of his story, since it manages to put in a bad light every single group that he absolutely hates. It's just a little to fantastical.
But here's another truth that know-it-all Sam doesn't want out but he considers leftism a religion and then calls it a mental disease. Then gets all bent out of shape when one poster calls all religion a mental disease and yet another calls conservatism a mental disease. Which goes to show that Sam has no problems what-so-ever throwing out hateful slurs against anyone that he doesn't like, but calls out others for hatred when they throw it back at him.
The more and more I read you Sam, the more I realize you aren't talking about liberals that you hate beyond a passion. You are talking about yourself.
You want others to be respectful but you don't hold back with the hate speech. You take small, bad examples of a group and assign to EVERY member of that group.
The reason they refuse to believe you is because they realize that you are an extremist that is hell bent on trying to shape America into a country where only one group makes decisions, and that's the extreme right. You don't want freedom for Americans, you want a police state where you and those like you can punish at will those who disagree with you.
I don't hate you Sam. I don't know you, but I do hate your political ideologies, because they, in my mind, represent the exact opposite of what this country was founded on.
Another point proven, by dear steffanie
For those who would like to see the true face of the left in our country.
http://www.zombietime.com/
I dare you, mike, to go spend some time searching this site and looking at your fellow libs.
If anyone is trying to use fascist techniques to silence all opposition, it is the left. The internet gives us all a wide window into the actions of BOTH sides, and the left wins the big awards for violence, hatred, and oppresion every time...every single time.
Haha, MrsSmith, you are hereby stripped of legitimacy in discussion. Zombietime? Really? That would be like me throwing up a MoveOn.org link and trying to pawn it off as something meaningful. Haha, and you dare to talk about indoctrination in public schools. Shameful.
Oh gee, people protesting a law that barely passed and you want to brand them fascists. Talk about trying to silence the opposition.
You want to give credence to the tea parties but then you trash as fascism and other protest that disagrees with you. Very class MrsSmith
The term, compassionate conservative, is definitely lost on steffanie.
And when have I ever bitched about my profession. I love my job. I'm just sick of the know-it-alls such as yourself telling me how I should do my job.
steffanie,
I don't blog, but I love to read. For the last two weeks or so, I have sat here and read how you have constantly trashed me. You don't even know me. Your hatred for "leafy" runs so deep, that you resort to trashing those that love him, including me and his dad, who you couldn't even hold a flame to if your hair was on fire.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH. You don't know me, leave me out of your twisted thinkings, because personally I think you are a fruitcake.
I am very happy with "leafy". He is a good person, inside and out. My plans to marry him in July still stand to this day. So until you know me, don't judge me or assume you know what I'm thinking or going to be doing.
The soon to be wife of "leafy".
Oh PLEASE show me where I bitched about my profession. I won't hold my breath as you won't do anything but continue saying that I bitched, because you are so right (in your little warped mind) that no matter what anyone says you don't think you have to prove yourself right.
I'll see you back here on June 27, 2011. And "leafy" is far from a fruitcake. If he was a tenth as warped and twisted as you are he wouldn't be allowed on my property.
I love that you criticize him for spending too much time on this blog. I could look through these blogs and see your name posted to a lot of trash over and over again. Try finding a life before you criticize others for spending too much time on the computer. And I don't care if you are a drop out working at Taco Bell (doubt any of that is true since you change who and what you are anytime anyone questions you about it). Any sane thinking person knows who the joke was about so if you want to keep spinning your lie to protect your precious lil governor in Alaska (by the way who makes her own jokes, badly, about other people all the time).
He loves his job. I live with the man and I see it in his face everyday he gets up to go to school. He is never late and refuses to come home early because he believes (and he is) making a difference with these children. You would be hard pressed to find a more compassionate person than him. YOU could take lessons from him about being compassionate.
What I've noticed most about you as I've read these blogs over the last few weeks is that you absolutely lie about everything and the sad thing is you believe your own lies. You won't provide any proof to any of the accusations that you lob out, then criticize those who actually do provide facts.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, or maybe in simpler words that you could understand, before you go pointing fingers at others, make sure your hands are clean.
Of course, judging by the comments you leave on these boards (EVERY SINGLE DAY) you have nothing better to do with your life than trash others.
But keep this in mind, while you're cleaning my back yard, you're leaving the other poor souls that have to put up with your garbage alone.
Michael - you use your same old weapons, call everybody a liar, then cry hate. Guillermo would be proud. Are you sure you're not Guillermo?
You are going to have to step it up a bit Michael. You are really embarrassing yourself, you act like a little kid who cannot have his way.
Truth hurts, but truth can also liberate. I am just getting started with the truth. It is entirely understandable that brainwashed individuals like yourself have a hard time with truth. All those years of indoctrination behind you, and you're having difficulty reconciling the lies you where programed with against the realities of life.
You can actually start to think for yourself Michael. It just takes a little heart, and a little courage. Don't be such a mommas boy.
Wow that is simply amazing that you continue with the same old tired lie of indoctrination. Then again, you are a know-it-all and this post just proved it.
What's even more interesting is that you are complaining about my acts, even though you do the same thing and even worse. What you practice IS hate.
I wasn't programmed. I can't speak for you, but I was raised by two loving parents who at a young age taught me to think for myself and make my own decisions. I didn't allow myself to be fed outrageous lies passed as truth. I did my own research with real facts instead of trusting some website or television station as the truth.
The only two people I've called liars are steffanie, because she continually lies about who she is to try to prove some inane point she is trying to make and you because you continue to bastardize the education system because of a few bad apples.
By the way, how did it become so wrong in this country to be a momma's boy. I love my mother and I will always support her no matter what.
You and steffanie are two of a kind. She goes after my dad and then my soon to be wife and you take up the slack and go after my mother.
Truly sad and pathetic that since you can't shout me down loud enough you have to go after my family.
"I am just getting started with the truth."
Sam what you fail to realize is that your "truth" is just a bundle of dumbed down indoctrinations you picked up somewhere on a dark highway near Butte, or Casper, or wherever. The Limbaugh/Savage truth! Only you manage to make it sound more redneck. Well if what you think you are shucking is truth, I will stick to the lies then, knowing the frequency with which your Limbaugh/Savage "truth" connection tends to...ahem...be less than honest.
Mike, jhat, mccookreader, any liberal that can read this...were you born in "cultural excrement?" I was born in Lincoln, NE, so according to G5/Sceptre Lincoln's norm is "cultural excrement." Not a very nice thing to say about the capitol of NE, but I see what you mean considering it is a red state and all.
G5 your old stupid ravings are slowly crawling out again. How long, O' lord, until the idiocy floweth like before. My how I have missed flogging you G5. Let the good times roll.
Actually I was born in Dodge City, Kansas, raised in Oklahoma and Arkansas and have lived my entire adult life in Nebraska and Arkansas. I don't think you could really call any of those places "liberal cultural excrement".
But then again what else do you expect from someone when they only thing they can actually do is trash other people for the way they live, all the while the heads of his party keep being embarrassed for not practicing what they preach to everyone else.
But it doesn't come as any surprise that when someone, such as myself, talks about how they were raised to think for themselves and make their own decisions, that someone like Sceptre comes along and thinks that it's dirty.
What I find so humorous about this can summed up by paraphrasing Jon Stewart: "Republicans have conservative brains, but liberal penises." I don't give a tinker's damn about sex in the oval office, or Argentine mistresses, or gay fellatio in the in the park. Just don't tell me my morals are questionable and then run off to solicit underage boys in an internet chat room. Got that Reps?
Mike, In your first comment of this blog, you doubted that what Sam describes is true. I happen to know that every word of it is the truth. I have known Sam since 1975, and in 1993, after this incident, Sam told me exactly what happened. I not only heard it from him, but also from the preacher he describes in this blog. A TV station in Denver, who hadn't yet sold out to the left, had a reporter on the scene, and you could see and hear the disgusting rants and singing of the anti-Christian song. They also reported on the 4 Nuns and the abuse they suffered at the hands of these degenerates. I have a copy of the Denver Post with Sam's picture on page 1B. You have obviously been brainwashed by the left and their PR gurus into thinking that the left can do no wrong. Actually, the opposite is true, they can barely do anything right. Wait and see!! They are trying to destroy what is left of this great country!!
Ace
Mike,true story look it up. August 16, 1993 Denver Post.
You gentlemen may be wasting your time trying to explain truth to Mr. Hendricks and his crazy friends. They do not want the truth, they want to continue in what Sam properly describes as their leftist religious delusion. They are just stinkin' liberals to me. Sam, I notice time after time, when you give specific examples of liberal craziness, and Mr. Hendricks cries WORSE than a little school girl, calls you a liar, then tries to put the hate he has in his heart on you, and then acts like a jerk. I think it is funny to watch you dismantle these poor diluted souls, as you have correctly pointed out, with delusions of superiority.
Keep swinging Sam, keep swinging.
At least we can agree that religion is delusion.
Who are you agreeing with Gilly, yourself??
Yes he is.
Ok good, you are still laboring under the impression that your beliefs are not delusional and everyone else's are. Good to know that the world suddenly hasn't made Conservatives not hypocrites.
Well, it appears that GI is quite familiar with his Left Coast buddies...and hates the fact that someone "exposes" them online.
Mike, on the other hand, lacked the courage to go "meet" his fellows. You'd really love the "Hall of Shame," Mike. Oh, and the Folsom Street Fair. You and GI have some "good" company in your beliefs.
I would have loved to have been there to witness a group of Americans exercising their rights and participating in what makes our country so great. You are of course an wrong MrsSmith because you have no idea what I believe, you just see two things that appear to have similarities and stop your investigation there. In fact, I would not have participated because I don't entirely share the beliefs that I saw in some of those pictures, but you are right about one thing, I would have gone to watch...seeing democracy in action is beautiful.
G5,
Hey old man, for conservatives it seems that the filth rises to the top, eh? Aside from the who's who laundry list of public gay sex and child soliciting, as well as other such curious aspects of human sexuality, the conservative mind is naturally bent toward capitalism, money, and greed. Greed that fuels sex in pop-culture, sex in advertising, sex in media (just keep it away from schools right?). If you Cons don't like sex and "cultural excrement" it is time for you to start looking inward, at your capitalist tendency to worship the almighty dollar, as the main pulse fueling the pop-culture sex machine. Sex sells, no? Capitalism and free markets demand that sex and sex imagery be a commodity. You don't get to have it both ways.
PS
This country was founding on socialist principles as much as it was conservative ones. Conservatism is pollution. Fight it! I love crazy old people. I just wanna give them a hug.
The formation of a federal government that centralizes power = socialist principle. The idea that all people are created equal = socialist principle. Providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare = socialist principles.
Where do you think our founding fathers learned to think this way? Certainly they didn't just make it up...these principles of governance existed in theory long before America (see French/Eastern European philosophers). Jefferson and Franklin and their confreres were greatly influenced by European, specifically French philosophy.
This is what has made America what it is: a deep foundation in hard work and individualism, tempered by the benevolence and humanitarianism of constrained socialism. Unchecked Capitalism will exploit just as much if not worse than socialism; unchecked, socialism will do the same. Together these two philosophies have formed a great nation. Res Ipsa Loquitor.
Sam,
I am a democrat. Yet i was raised in catholic school and had i seen this incident (if it actually went down like you say) I surely would have been right by your side defending them.
Profile much?
Crazy libs spit at nuns
All libs spit at nuns
All libs are democrats
All democrats spit at nuns
False
McCook Reader - so you are fine with the crazy(worse than Communists), leftists and their takeover of your once great party?
Why because they promised you some crumbs from the masters' table?
My folks voted for JFK, the current Democrat Party is an abomination, it is an obscenity. Your party has been hijacked by nut jobs, and you should take steps to correct that, rather than get defensive at me.
Regarding our State Indoctrination Centers, all I need do to prove the sickness that Public Schools have right now is to point to Michael and Guillermo. You want your kids like these two?
I don't think I need to take the time to answer Guillermos' craziness anymore. The guy hates America, and will be glad when America dies, and is actively working to do just that.
He comes from a cowardly country that cannot even defend themselves, Spain, and Guillermo would be thrilled to have the USA as low on the totem pole as Spain.
Years upon years of abuse in the public school system have wrecked havoc on our society. Time to wake up.
Capitalism is the way, not Guillermo and his puppy dog Michaels', idea of some Nazi like freakish utopia, where only the oligarchy thrive.
Not gonna happen Guillermo. And who knows, maybe if you quit spreading lies, and treachery, your country may actually grow a spine someday.
You readers take note of one of the religious lefts tactics, on display by the reprobate Guillermo. Unless you are perfect, you cannot claim perfection. This is a lie the leftist goons have used for years to silence Christians. Stop falling for that lie.
I am not perfect, but I damn well can support perfection, and the goal of perfection. Just because I broke a Commandment, that does not preclude me from proclaiming those same Commandments.
The goal of all this of course is to continue to promote deviancy in the name of civil rights. Eventually, with unGodly lawyer dogs, and evil judges, the Bible will be declared hate speech.
Please realize that these crazed leftists could care less about homosexuals. The homosexuals are the weapon the leftist crazies use attack God, and Christianity, and that is the bottom line. The nutty leftists hate God, and everything God stands for.
Now Guillermo, and his puppy, Michael, will come on and try and deny this. But I ask you a question. Does a man who abuses and mistreats his wife, love his wife more than himself? The answer is obvious.
Don't come on here and pretend and lie that you can honor God, and stand with the unGodly forces trying to kill this country.
These same leftists forces that see to it, that every day, without fail, three thousand lives are sacrificed, their blood laid at the alter of the religious left in control of the Democrat Party.
Also, Steffanie, Mrs. Smith, Marcus, Orville, Spectre, Monte, and others who agree with me, thanks for taking time to say so. I appreciate you folks very much.
G.I.,
Born and raised in central Pennsylvania, over an hour away from anything that could be considered a 'city' (or as I as suppose Sceptre would call them, cultural excrement).
Had generally conservative, but not really politically interested/active parents. I became interested in politics during college when I became friends with a few members of the 'Campus Republicans'. Once I was interested, I started researching facts, discussing them with my friends, and thinking for myself. I'm still friends with some of them to this day, and we always have a great time arguing politics. (of course, they usually manage to keep the discourse level above what occurs on this site).
And I wholeheartdly agree that the balance between efficient/heartless capitalism and inefficient/socially-equitable socialism is one of the things that makes our country great, and keeps it competitive but tempered with social equality and social justice.
Sceptre,
If you really think that Nazi Germany was a good example of a socialist state, you need to check your history. Hitler rose to power in the National Socialist Party because the proletariat and middle class were fed-up with depression-era economics, and wanted a more equitable state. Of course, once he seized power, Hitler did nothing to alleviate their situation, choosing instead to rule by fear and propaganda.
Companies remained in control of private individuals, instead of being collectively owned by the people. The Nazi's dissolved the people's right to form trade unions, engage in collective bargaining, and to strike.
In fact, one of the earliest groups targeted by Hitler were the real socialists, who Hitler did needed to keep quiet to maintain the illusion that he was still a socialist.
If you've ever been to the holocaust museum in Washington DC, there is a quote on large letters on the wall in front of the Hall of Remembrance. A quote from a poem by Martin Niemöller, a prominent theologian who originally supported Hitler, but spoke out in opposition when Hitler began to overstep his bounds.
It reads:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."
(continued from previous).
Hitler rose to power by promising socialism. But he was quick to dismantle any and all socialist groups once he had the power.
Many conservatives will point out that consolidating power to the state (like Hitler certainly did) makes him a liberal socialist. Of course, he does share this trait in common with socialism. But it's disingenuous to make that claim based on one similarity, when many other facets of history point to the contrary.
I could just as easily assert he was a conservative, because he rallied the people through patriotism and love for their country, and also rallied them by spreading a sense of xenophobia (mistrust of foreigners). But of course, it would be disingenuous for me to do so, so I won't.
I can see how such an incident could change your way of thinking and your life. Thanks for sharing your first hand experience with the 'tolerant liberal left' with us. Would anyone be so silly to disagree with the statement that the most intolerant folks around are those that preach tolerance.
"He comes from a cowardly country that cannot even defend themselves..."
I was born in Lincoln, NE, Sham, the country that I come from that cannot defend itself (as you say) is the US.
Haha, you just keep displaying your lack of savvy and intelligence my man, and I will keep playing your nerves like la guitarra espanola. Ole!
And to respond to Sam's original post.
I've seen people spit on, and even struck for being openly gay. But I would never have the audacity to claim that those incidents represent the general demeanor of all conservatives. And I find the assertion that the acts of a few individuals is representative of the demeanor of all liberals to be somewhat offensive.
"This country, including Nebraska, was founded on Conservative values, not the antics from filthy reprobates like the Clinton's, Rosie O'Donnell, and others. Liberalism is social pollution. Fight it!"
Hmmm, have you heard of George Norris, Frank Morrison, and Ben Nelson. These hallowed names are revered by McCookites yet their political affiliation lies with Democratic or Progressive parties.
Well said buff.
Sam truly can't see the forest for the trees.
If our country had stayed away from progresivism and liberalism for all of these years we would still have segregation.
And sam i found an interesting stat today.
You always rant about obama's socialism and big government practices. Again you are wrong.
Thus far this year do you know how much business income in this country came from federally owned businesses?
Bet you were wrong... 1%
Do you know what they were when good ole' FDR was pres?
Close to 13%
No matter what obama does or says from here on out you will hate him. He's a democrat and his father is a muslim. I don't care if you listen to rush, but how about checking up on some of the things he says every once in a while.
BuffRoam,
I'm sorry to break this to you but Norris, Morrison and Nelson weren't here for the founding of Nebraska. Norris would be the closest one but he still came after the founding of Nebraska. They would be revered regardless of their politics just for being from McCook. Morrison and Brooks did their share but nothing extraordinary. Nelson is popular simply for his ability to get earmarks and most of the people who praise him for it despise earmarks. I'm still trying to figure out those people. Norris is the only one who did anything truly memorable. Even Nelson's mess with the nuclear dump will soon be forgotten. We praise him for having a behind the scenes chat with a private contractor and telling this contractor about how he should do something in McCook, then Nelson goes to the Senate and gets money for the work this contractor is doing, the contractor takes that money and opens up shop in McCook. Now, that's great for McCook but if it was a senator from any other state that did that, we would see the corruption that existed in that whole process and be understandably upset about it.
"This country, including Nebraska, was founded on Conservative values"
Well, you need to specify what you mean by "conservative values". It's kind of a broad term.
Do you mean contemporary social conservative values, such as pro-life, and anti-gay marriage?
I haven't ever heard an opinion or quote from any of the founding fathers regarding abortion. And it's not because the practice didn't exist in their time (it did).
Nor have I heard quotes from them concerning the practice of homosexulaity (which I would not expect, because at the time it was almost exclusively practiced privately).
But even if they HAD said homosexuality was counter to American values, that doesn't make them right. After all, they wrote a constitution that counted blacks as 3/5ths a person.
Or did you mean foreign policy? Many of the founding fathers were non-interventionists. It's difficult for me to reconcile this with the policy of pre-emptive strikes and nation-building that has been pushed by neoconservatives and supported by most typical conservatives.
Or did you mean fiscal policy? Some pushed for (and established) a national bank, and also supported consolidating financial power at the federal level (Washington, Hamilton). Others opposed it (Jefferson, Madison).
Or did you mean federal power? Some favored state's rights and a weak federal government (anti-federalists, Jefferson, Madison). While others favored a more powerful central government (federalists, Washington, Adams, Jefferson after he was elected).
Do you mean Christian values? Many founders were Christian. But many were not. Some were deists, some held many different religious philosophies. Some were even especially critical of the Christian religion. Most prominently, Thomas Paine.
Do not point to the political opinions of the founding fathers as the "values" of this country. They held diverse political opinions, and seldom were in total agreement. The "values" this country was founded on were democracy and freedom. Values that I think both of our current political parties can (and do) share.
mccookreader,
Good point. Only a sliver of our country's industries have been nationalized. We are nowhere close to being a socialist nation. The complaint that we are moving towards socialism seems (to me) to be like a man claiming he's going to bleed to death from a paper cut.
Another thing to point out about our history. During this last election, there was alot of crying that Obama was going to redistribute wealth through a higher income tax on the top-earners. There were many complaints that this proved he was a socialist at heart.
The marginal income tax rate on the top tax bracket was 39% during the Clinton presidency. It was lowered to 36% by the bush tax cuts, and Obama wanted to move it back to 39%.
Does anyone know what it was after WWII? During the 50's?
90%
No, I didn't mess that up. 90%. It was lowered to 70% in the mid-60's. And it wasn't until the "Reagan Revolution" in the 80's that it was lowered to 50%, and then 36%. So before we go calling Obama a socialist, let's look at our tax history.
Of course, many claim that the 80's tax cuts are responsible for the tremendous economic growth we saw in the 80's and 90's. And that may be the case. GDP certainly did skyrocket those years.
But you know what else skyrocketed those years? National Debt. National Debt (as percentage of GDP) had skyrocketed during WWII and slowly decreased throughout the 70's. The tax breaks in the 80's saw it skyrocket yet again.
Heading of this column: "Welcome to the freak show."
Check out the picture of the freak on this web site:
http://nebulousone.blogspot.com/
Enough said. A picture of Sammy before his coming out blog with a farmers cap. Nice change Sam.
This is a good link if you want a complete history of tax rates over the years.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publication...
You can see that the tax rates under Bush were far better for low to middle income families than they were under Clinton, not just the rich. Reviving the 10% tax bracket was a major help to low and middle income families but you won't hear about that. We only seem to hear about the top bracket going from 39.6% to 35% as if that's the only thing worth looking at.
The wealthy in this country are the ones who finance a majority of the businesses in this country and give most of us jobs except for the government employees, of which there are many as well. I just can't understand why people think it's ok to raise taxes on one group simply because they have more money than someone else. The top 1% percent of wage earners (those with incomes above $388,806) paid 39.89% of all taxes paid in this country so it's laughable if you think they aren't already paying their fair share.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2...
McCook1,
Thanks for providing the citation on tax rates. I forgot to include my link. I actually got my figures from the exact same place. Of course I do recognize that reviving that tax break did provide a benefit for low income families. And I agree with that. I actually wasn't trying to make an argument against the Bush tax cuts. Just pointing out that the conservatives using the 36% -> 39% = socialism argument were a little unhinged (in my opinion).
And yes, the wealthy do finance a majority of the businesses. And the working class provides the labor for the businesses. So really BOTH groups are indispensable. The rich need the workers and the workers need the rich.
"I just can't understand why people think it's ok to raise taxes on one group simply because they have more money than someone else"
I support the progressive income tax for many reasons.
1) Practicality. The government needs more revenue. (Yes, I know, they also need to cut wasteful spending. But they need that and more revenue.) The rich have a proportionately higher disposable income, and are able to shoulder additional tax burden.
2) The upper class benefits more from certain government services. Truckers/UPS/FedEx use the publicly funded roads. NBC/CBS/ABC use public airwaves that they leased for peanuts. And yes, the poor benefit more from social services like social security. But the rich get to stop paying SS taxes at $250,000
3) Continuation of #2. National defense. The rich benefit proportionately more from strong national defense. Why? They have more to lose. If I have ten million dollars worth of things in my house, I buy an awesome security system. If I have ten dollars worth of things in my house, I don't even buy a lock. Is it fair for the poor to pay the same for national defense, even if they have so little to lose (compared to the rich). If we lost against an invading force, all of our lives would suck, but the rich would be the people to fall furthest.
4) Reduction of income inequality, which has a number of societal benefits, including lower homicide rates.
http://psych.mcmaster.ca/dalywilson/iiah...
Etc.
And yes, it does sound ridiculous on the surface that 1% of the population pays 39.89% of all our taxes. But a study done by the UN showed that 1% of the world population owns 40% of the worlds wealth. But that number seems less outrageous when you consider that the top 1% own 39% of the wealth in our country.
You also have to consider capital gains tax rates, which are typically paid by the rich, who make a substantial amount of their money from investments.. The long term capital gains tax rate sits at 15%, the same rate in income taxes that a family making $16,700 pays. This is why Warren Buffet challenged CEO's to prove that they paid less in taxes than their secretaries. Because their secretaries, who are typically paid in one of the middle two brackets are taxed at 25% or 28%. And CEO's who make a large portion of their money through stock options are taxed at 15%. (except for their actual salary, of course). As far as I know, no CEO's have taken him up on the offer.
(Now, that I think about it, this makes CEO's with $1 salaries, like Steve Jobs, seem much less noble).
Sceptre, (I'm assuming you're responding to my comment)
I'm sure that the corporations are glad that they have people like you to feel outraged for them. It's not like they have expensive lobbyists to push their interests in Washington.
But seriously, I don't believe I said anything about corporations being bad, or about them all being corrupt. I just believe in progressive income taxation. Instead of actually rebutting my positions and responding to me in a civil tone, you've concocted a weak straw man argument where you paint all liberals as thinking corporations are evil.
Now, I'm sure that characterization is true for SOME liberals, just as the slack-jawed yokel characterization is true for SOME conservatives. But many of us can manage to recognize that corporations and the capitalist system have their benefits and uses. (and know, I don't think conservatives are slack-jawed yokels).
I don't think corporations are evil. I think they are greedy. But there's nothing wrong with that. The economic theory behind capitalism ASSUMES they are greedy. They are supposed to be greedy, it's how capitalism works (that's not to say there are SOME that strive to be more socially responsible). But they are businesses. Businesses need to the most amount of money possible with the least amount of resources. But I digress.
All I claimed was that wealthy people can/should shoulder some more tax burden. I thought I gave what seemed to be reasonable reasons for this. If you would like to discuss these reasons instead of complaining about "limousine liberals" and caricaturing all liberals as anti-corporation, please offer something to the conversation.
The people running corporations can be greedy you old bat!!
I really have missed your strange and questionable attempts at playing semantic games on a small town blog, G5.
As far as utopias go, nobody on the left is arguing for utopia, merely a bit of decency and compassion in the maw of capitalist indifference. You know what tyranny is? It is claiming genetic superiority, it is using racial and bigoted slurs, it is calling for civil war because you cannot form a good enough argument to push your beliefs on others, it is writing in a public forum that America needs to be "cleansed of reprobates." You are not fooling anyone, you may have changed your name, but you cannot change your hate and insanity old timer.
Well said GI,
In the strictest most literal sense, a corporation cannot be "greedy" or "nice" or "responsible", as those are characteristics of individuals, not organizations. But we can still use those words to describe organizations that are made up of (or controlled by) individuals with those characteristics. We can call the Nazi's 'evil', because the people who controlled the Nazi party were evil.
So we can call corporations greedy when the people controlling the organizations are concerned with building themselves as much wealth as possible, which is the point of running a corporation, to make money.
Again, there is nothing wrong with being greedy. That is the engine that drives capitalist competition. "I want to make more money than my competitor, so I make a better product". So when I say corporations are "greedy", I'm not saying that they are bad, I'm saying they are acting as corporations act.
Sceptre, you continue to rail against some ambiguous idea of 'the left' instead of actually discussing any of the issues/ideas that have been brought up. Please, feel free to discuss these individual topics as to productively contribute to conversation.
Corporations are greedy, unions are greedy. Who's not greedy?
I am not.
I am.
Wait, greedy about what? Money?
I am. I want to make as much money as I can. However, I keep my greed in check with my morals. The CEOs who sacrifice their employees for the benefit of their own bonuses are excessively greedy. The union leaders who sacrifice the financial stability of the whole company for higher salaries, bonuses and more and more time off regardless of the consequences are excessively greedy. The only difference is that the greedy CEOs will always get more money than the greedy union leaders. Both lack the morals to know what is appropriate and what is excessive. If a CEO does a great job and his company is doing well and his employees are well paid then he deserves to make a lot of money for providing the leadership that got them there. Everyone should share in the losses and everyone should share in the gains.
I have no room for greed nor a want of excessive money in my life. I am perfectly content earning a livable wage, donating my spare time to the community and activism, learning new languages, studying US education (in both theory and policy), using what little money I can save to travel and experience life from the perspective of other cultures, and dedicating my existence to holding our great nation to the bargain it made 233 years ago: a pact of equality among all people.
G.I.,
If everyone actually lived their lives the way you describe, seeking to better the world and themselves for your own sake instead of for financial reward, socialism would actually work.
But unfortunately, too many people want to better themselves and the world for less selfless means. That's not to say that is a bad thing. If the you better yourself or the world, your intentions are inconsequential to the rest of us. And this is why capitalism is nice, because people can work to make the world/themselves better, with the promise of financial gain.
Example:
T Boone Pickens might be trying to make the world a better place with wind energy, but he also stands to make a killing if it takes off. (good for him).
So (in my opinion) that's why socialism won't work, and why capitalism does. Of course, unbridled capitalism has it's own flaws, which is why (again, in my opinion) I think it should be tempered with a little bit of socialism.
Sarah Palin came out today and said that in a long foot race she could beat Obama, but then again she thinks she's God, so there you go.