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School BellPosted Tuesday, May 5, 2009, at 10:54 AM
Dateline: Santa Ana, California. One student finally had enough of his History Professors' diatribes against Christianity. The student, Chad Farnum, recorded over twenty attacks in one "lecture" of teacher James Corbett. Mr. Corbett said that creationism is "religious superstitious nonsense." While Mr. Corbett is entitled to his opinion, and probably holds the views of great majority of public schools teachers, who asked him for his opinion? Actually, it was not Corbett's opinion, it was his religion. U.S. District Judge, James Selna, ruled that the teacher violated the First Amendment rights of the student. I love it when I am right! The student won the suit, and asked for no money by the way, he just wants the teachers hate and religious bigotry out of the classroom. You see friends, the left does not want a discussion, they want censorship...and yet they demand the ability to spread their Emotional leftist religion to our kids. The Judge ruled under the First Amendment. The Judge agrees with redneck Sammy, the teacher was engaging in a religion. AND, look, if you leftists just have to teach your bible of Darwinism, then allow a argument for Creationism. You don't want that do you? No, you are afraid to let the other side have a say. We have many Scientists on the Christian side of this debate, who can easily debate the Darwin Theology. The Emotionals do not want debate. They want unequal access to sway young minds. One can only imagine the kids this "teacher" polluted over the years. It only took one kid, a young man with the power of truth, to put an end to it. Oh, the teacher still gets paid, and gets to "teach", and will most likely continue to work to spread his religion among the students, but at least it is a start. When I lamented my own failures to stand up against the Emotional leftists in the past regarding lies taught in school, our friend Michael Hendricks asked, "what lies." I responded that he knew the lies. He does know, and so do other teachers. Some are complying because they have too. If you speak up against the Emotional leftists as a school teacher, you my be labeled a "kook" or blacklisted or fired. Educational Fascism, plain and simple. The left is afraid of true debate in the classroom, and today's leftist movement in America, is a religion. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Once again you amaze me at your complete lack of understanding (and if I had to guess you don't care either) of the education system. You are so far off base it isn't even humorous at this point.
The student was right to tape his HISTORY teaching railing against creationism. It was a HISTORY class not a science class and the teacher was hampering the students' right to education by talking about something that had no place in education.
But once again you are preaching about one side being emotional when it is you that is being emotional. You have no idea of what you are talking about with education.
I welcome debate in all my classrooms and will do next to nothing to stifle that debate unless one students' speech has crossed the magical line that is not protected under free speech.
I still await what lies you believe are being told in school. Just giving the canned response of "You know what lies" leads one to believe that even you don't know the lies and are just making it up as you go.
School is supposed to be a place where we all go to amass and sharpen the valuable skills they we will one day need to be more successful in life. Work is supposed to be the place that we put these skills into motion and sharpen them even further with experience. I dont think that personal religeous beliefs belong in either place. I dont have a problem with a teacher or co-worker expressing their religeous beliefs if they are in a one on one setting and are asked for the opinion or advice. But I think we all need to practice our many different religeons in the appropriate place of worship, and at home.
Sam,
You seemed to have picked ONE example of a teacher abusing his power and painted all others with the same brush. Most rational people (liberal AND conservative) would agree that personal views on Christianity do not belong in history class (whether they are positive or negative). Though they should not exclude Christianity as it relates to world/US history.
I would also like to point out, that we have no idea if Mr. Corbett is a "leftist" (as you would call him). Many conservatives have anti-Religious sentiments as well. We only have your assumption he's a 'leftist' based on your observation of ONE of his actions.
The question is all about context. In a history class, it's not OK to espouse personal views on religion (unless students initiate the conversation).
However, it WOULD be alright to teach about horrible things done in the name of Christianity (such as the Crusades or the Inquisition). Or to teach about how people in power throughout history have used religion to keep people in thrall. It's important that we don't lump these things in with (inappropriate) "Christian-bashing", as they are legitimately part of history.
However, it would not be appropriate to teach those things in a SCIENCE class. But it would be appropriate to teach that creationism has poor scientific backing, and is not as thoroughly supported by evidence and logic as the theory of evolution.
And "darwinism" (as you call it), is not a religious view. It's not derived from a bible or from scripture of any kind. It is a theory that was proposed and has been supported thoroughly by an almost insurmountable amount of evidence. It's as much a scientific fact as germ theory, gravitational theory, etc. (Also, 'Darwinism' is inaccurate. The idea of natural evolution was around long before Charles Darwin. And it does a disservice to scientists who came both before and after him to attribute it to just the one man, however important his contributions was).
Intelligent Design (creationism) should not be taught in schools because there has not been sufficient evidence to give it any sort of validity (not to mention the fact that much of ID study is religiously motivated). The onus is on ID scientists to present their hypotheses, tests, and findings to the scientific community before it can be taken seriously. They have failed to do so. Every creationist claim I have EVER heard has been thoroughly debunked by other scientists. Every year, there is only a trickle of ID papers submitted to reputable scientific journals.
It should be taught in schools if it ever collects enough evidence to create some semblance of respectability. Until then it's going to have to stay in the same category as the "hollow-earth" hypothesis. A category reserved for scientific claims that have no ACTUAL proof of validity. A category so abundant with members that it would be unreasonable to present them all to a high school science class.
I'd like to see the rest of the 20 statements this teacher made. This teacher may have been ok with the establisment clause legally on many of his statements but anyone with common sense can see this particular teacher has some deeper issues with religion and prayer and he let those views spill over into his classroom. His statements could easily be seen as hostile to people with religious beliefs. The link below quotes some of these additional statements.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/latestnews/ci...
I remember my History/American Gov't teacher made a very strong effort to prevent any of his students from knowing his party affiliaton and political views and he even attended different churches so that no one would be influenced by seeing him at a particular church. Most teachers would not go out of their way like this to avoid influencing their students but I think it is extremely admirable and wish that we had more teachers like him.
And just so we can all agree. It goes the other way too.
Corbett was fired for expressing anti-religious sentiment in his classroom.
Any teacher who teachers their own religion in the classroom should be similarly handled. Even if they are teaching Christianity. A teacher who lauds Christianity in the classroom should be punished, as well as any teacher who tears it down in his classroom. The classroom is supposed to be as religiously neutral as possible.
For instance, Robert Ziegler (of Nebraska) who was fired for teaching Christianity in his math class.
Its far better to see the Universe for what it really is than to continue to relish in delusion and ignorance. I find your comments repulsive, and your cowboy IQ to boot. I will not reply to you as you don't deserve a reply...you spread ignorance around like butter on bread, and you enjoy emotional confrentation....neither of these things I will give you...like a friend of mine once said....It does no good to waller in the mud with pigs...you get all dirty and shit all over you, and the pig likes it.
"I will not reply to you as you don't deserve a reply"
Contradiction:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/c...
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I always have found it odd that there must be such partisanship in the debate between creationism vs darwinism/evolution.
My 2 cents:
Why can't both be right? I know many christians who believe in some form of evolution, as do I. Logically speaking, there is always debate on translation in the Bible. Is this part literal? Is that part figuritive? And so on and so forth.
Well I believe it is perfectly understandable to believe in evolution and believe in God as the Creator. There is scientific proof that creatures on this earth evolve. Evolution is all around us, the word just has such a stigma about it that most conservatives plug their ears and scream creationism. There are several examples of fish and lizards that can change their gender or have two animals of the same gender reproduce if it is necessary for the environment. Remember in Jurassic park when the island was filled w/ only one gender of dinosaur as a means of controll, well they found dinosaur eggs on the island. Sure its hollywood, but that part was based on scientifice findings done in Australia which confirmed that lizards do have that capability.
This is a perfect example of an animal adapting to overcome, which is a part of darwinism.
Now, that does not mean there is no creator. I believe that God is the one who created the earth and set things in motion, he sparks evolution for a lack of a better term. He is in control of everything.
To those who will argue: But it says in the bible god made this then god made that in 7 days. Well science shows us that certain animals have been around longer than humans by much more than a couple "days". Its all up for interpretation. There are many words in hebrew that don't exist in ancient greek, and there are more words in ancient greek that don't exist in aremaic. And words had far more connotations to the mesopotamians than they do to us. So translation of biblical text is a huge grey area.
And for the record... a friend of mine who shares this belief asked our priest/religous teacher what he thought, and the priest ok'd it. I know he isn't the end all be all of cannon law but I was surprised nonetheless.
mccook reader makes a valid argument. I also think there is some merit in "post-creation evolution" (I had to call it something) and I also believe that belief in evolution does not mean you don't believe in some form of creationism.
Guillermo,
I hate to go back to my point about biblical translataions, but it's just a topic that has been bugging me lately. The fact that schisms occur literally over one word in the bible is a shame.
With that being said I don't think many people truly realize how much could have theoretically been lost in translation. This is in no way an effort to alienate you from other posters, but i feel that you are the perfect person to give perspective to this point.
My grandfather speaks spanish and I've picked up some from him and I took it throughout four years of high school. I am in no way fluent, but I can communicate if I need to. English and Spanish are actually pretty closely relative as languages, both being latin based and sharing many cognates. But obviously there are several phrases in spanish that don't directly translate in english and obviously the same goes for the other way around.
And to take it even further, the variations of spanish accents and dialects is interesting to me. The words i had picked up from my mexican grandfather were quickly dismissed as incorrect by my high school spanish teacher. In the united states the curriculum is taught as (proper) spanish, which of course would come from your beautiful country. I now find that when I am speaking spanish with a mexican I really struggle to catch everything they are saying. I thought this was simply reflective of my lack of knowledge. But I realized that wasn't the case when I spoke to a woman from Peru. I understood her perfectly. It is much closer to traditional spanish. Yet when I watch a boxing match where a puerto rican fighter is interviewed I will be lucky to understand two words out of one hundred.
That was always interesting to me. And being that you are completely fluent in english and spanish I'm sure you notice the differences more so than I.
So in believing similar to you on creation, I find it extremely bothersome when some religous zealot believes with absolute certainty that everything in his/her brand new mass produced bible is exactly correct word for word. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that the earth was created in 144 hours.
Mr. Corbett said that creationism is "religious superstitious nonsense."
Of course it was inappropriate for Corbett to criticize the stupidity of a religious belief in a public school.
Also, of course what Corbett said is correct. Creationism, also known as magical creation, is a childish idiotic idea that doesn't belong in the 21st century.
Just throwing my two cents in but this is what I have been told by friends who went to catholic schools. They teach the God created the world and since that time the world has evolved (for better or worse). I don't know if that is really taught just what I've been told. And a Catholic schools (most being private) teaching that is no issue with me because it is a religious school.
But in the public sector we have the belief of separation of government and religion solely because our founders didn't want to end up with a government similar to England's in which if you were a religion that was separate from the Church of England you were castigated and sometimes forced to leave the country. Just look at the "settlers" of the Northeast, the pilgrims. They came here to escape religious persecution and yet here we are 200 years later and we have some religious groups that are persecuting others for their beliefs
Mike,
You are correct about Catholicism. Unless I am mistaken, the church's official policy is that the theory of evolution is acceptable and correct.
My children are no longer students but if they were, I would not allow a child of mine to be 'indoctrinated' in the public school system we have today. Parents, do whatever you have to do to get your children out of this environment. The values you teach at home are routinely ridiculed, independent thinking is forbidden, disagreement with the progressive line is unforgiveable and don't even think about your child EVER expressing a belief in God!!!
What proof of this do you have shaarhues? I'm going to go ahead and guess none what-so-ever. At my school alone there are two groups dedicated to christianity and they have huge numbers. So I guess you are right don't EVER express a belief in GOD.
They have figured us out!!!! Run for the hills.
I'm sorry to ridicule you shaar but they ideas you just put forward are ridiculous. It's just utter nonsense and absolute lies.
Shows what happens when you lie outright and hope no one notices.
You talk about how school suppposedly don't allow independent thought, what in the hell do you think you are advertising " Parents, do whatever you have to do to get your children out of this environment." That's telling parents to get children out of schools so they can only have one thought and that's the parents thoughts. That's a universe away from independent thought.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
Shar
I hope you don't really believe that stuff, but even if you do, why would you encourage parents to remove thier children from public schools? Do you have so little faith in your children's ability to reason and understand? If that is so, you have no-one to blame but yourself and is really a sad state. If parents disagree with what they think thier children are being taught, talk to your kids about what is happening and make sure they understand what you think. Then they can look at all sides of an issue and decide what they think is best. Big surpise coming: children don't always just agree with whatever they are told.
Mike and Guillermo
I understand you feel rightfully angered at these ideas, but can you honestly say public education is about the free exhange of disparate thoughts and ideas? How much of an average school day is given to true debate and how well tolerated are different and controversial ideas? Are students often arguing with teachers about belief systems? I can only speak from my experience, but when I was in school students rarely if ever, contradicted thier teachers or parents openly. I think most understood that it was a losing proposition and kept quiet for fear of reprisal, real or imagined.
A sad truth seems to be that people are much more likely to speak thier beliefs when they are either surrounded by those they feel are like minded or when they have the anonymity of a forum such as this. My cowardly self is yet another example of this.
I have been very busy and I apologize for not getting to some of your comments more quickly.
I see the vicious and god-hating Bobbyy is back. Still drinking the blood of young children Bob?
Jhat, I thank you for agreeing that the teacher I wrote about was wrong. I appreciate your candor.
Michael wants to know what lies I speak of:
Fine...
Every time the kiddies participate in Earth Day festivities in class, they are being indoctrinated into the religious left. During the last Earth day, too many surveys were taken and found that many young kids, think the Earth will die before they reach adulthood, because mommy drives an SUV, and daddy uses the wrong light bulb.
When I say God created the heaven and Earth, do I lie? That statement is either true or it is not. The religious left calls their prophets and evangelists, scientists. Fine, call them what you want, but my prophets say God created all things, your prophets tell you that mud turned to life. One of us is wrong.
Are you on the religious left going to say that Darwinism is truth? Is that your position? Darwin equals truth?
You, on the left, have your apostle Gore, he tells you things, and you beleive them, but the classroom is not the place for a religious movie, An Inconvenient Lie.
Then there is the whole Heather has two mommies crap that goes on. Part of your religion doctrine, not part of mine.
The left teaches the kiddies that mankind, or the human condition walks about the Earth like a monster, part of your religion, not mine.
I believe that humans are a blessing to the planet, and you on the left are free to beleive what you want, but quit using schools as your church.
That's just a few Michael. AND, you knew them already, but...I'll play along.
The story I talked about on in this blog was from the AP, dated May 4th, 2009.
Michael said he could not find it. I went to Google, typed in teacher James Corbett, and there it was. Not an obscure story.
Sam,
"During the last Earth day, too many surveys were taken and found that many young kids, think the Earth will die before they reach adulthood, because mommy drives an SUV, and daddy uses the wrong light bulb."
Please cite a source for that statement.
Would you not agree that it would be a good thing to cut down on carbon emissions/pollution and cut down on oil consumption? If so, what's wrong with instilling these ideas in children early? Regardless of your position on global warming, you still must recognize that burning fossil fuels needlessly harms our environment and makes us more dependent of foreign sources of energy.
"Are you on the religious left going to say that Darwinism is truth? Is that your position? Darwin equals truth?"
Darwinism is not truth. The theory of evolution is truth. Calling it darwinism is a misrepresentation. Darwin was not the first person to propose that we arrived here by evolution. He was simply the man who figured out and hypothesized the MECHANISM of evolution (natural selection). Also, many of his hypotheses about evolution were incorrect. The work in the field of evolution is credited to THOUSANDS of scientists who have made extraordinary contributions to the field. Darwin's words are not gospel.
But yes, the position of the 'left', and over 99% of earth/life scientists, is that the theory of evolution is true. It is being modified and corrected all of the time, but the general principals are considered to be truth.
You are entitled to whatever position on evolution you want to have. You can believe that God created the earth in 6 days. It's your prerogative as a free person.
But the reason evolution is taught in schools is that it is backed up by objective study of the evidence, while your views are based on your own religious beliefs. It takes no 'faith' to believe in evolution, just examination and understanding of the evidence.
You may believe that god made man out of dirt. But catholics believe that God used evolution. Muslims believe that Allah created man. Other religions believe stranger things, like that the world was burst forth from a deity's belly.
Schools cannot possibly be responsible for teaching ALL of these creation stories. And teaching one and not the others would be a violation of the 1st amendment (establishing religion).
The theory of evolution is WELL supported by evidence (just like germ theory or gravitational theory). It is not supported by 'faith' or by scriptures that are perceived as 'infallible'.
Sam, calling something a religion doesn't actually make it a religion. Evolution is not a religion. Environmentalism is not a religion (although some environmentalists do get out of hand, I can concede that point). And liberalism is not a religion any more than conservatism is a religion.