The Culprit

Exactly what lies do you feel the schools are telling children

Good for you Sam! If I thought you were serious I'd commend you on your honesty. There is more than enough blame to go around. We are all responsible for where we are today, good or bad.

I think you speak for a lot of us. Thing is, I am not so inactive anymore and neither are you. We can make a difference in the small world in which we live. You are making a difference and I thank you for that.

Dear Sam,

I know several teachers who gave the children in their classes May baskets today. They celebrated the day with a very christian (small c) attitude and an optimism for all the possibilities they saw in each child. And, by the way, they offered the best public education to these children too. It's actually the envy of the world. In general, American children, by the time they finish college, are as competitive and as prepared to deal with the challenges their country faces as any other young people in the world. I think your truth is a bit dark and unrealistic as well as demoralizing. My suggestion is that you become a teacher after you retire from driving. Your years of experience and your worldly know-how will serve you well. With some teacher education courses thrown in, you'll change the world because you do stand for something (good?), and you'll have to figure out how to teach EVERYONE you encounter in your classes well. If you can achieve that, then you'll come closer to a truth that you're seeking.

Res Just.

"Teaching that Blacks and Indians were victims of the White Christians; and that those cultures were pure as the wind driven snow is a lie."

Woah, woah, woah, woah. Are you saying that blacks and Indians weren't victims of the white christians????? I'd like to hear your logic.

And when you and many other conservatives refer to America being found on "christian principles", i think its worth pointing out that the wealthy white protestant men were in charge of our country for for about 400 years. I find it funny that people keep throwing fits that there is no christian education in schools, yet what if they were to teach a christian relgion you disagreed with? You would still be griping.

I am catholic and I went to a catholic school for elementary and junior high. I was always a history buff so I enjoyed learning of the churches history and the historical difference between catholicism and other christian religions. But just because we had religion class, we went to church every morning, and we prayed every day made us no different from our friends at the public schools.

Everyone acts as if prayer in school would turn America back into a "moral" nation. I disagree. Because people will never be content. If they allow prayer in school and those prayers are hail marys and glory be's, protestants would say that's not fair to them. And if they were prayers that disassociated the catholic faith, catholics would be pissed.

You can't say such a blanket statement like, "Oh if the world were all christian things would be better." Ask Ireland and Northern Ireland how true that statements been over the last hundreds of years.

That's a very miopic view Sceptre and you are still excusing what the American government (note, I never once said anything about all white people) kicked Native Americans off their lands. Do you remember the Trail of Tears where most all eastern Native Americans were marched to Oklahoma and promised by our government that the land there would always be theirs only for the government to take that land as well?

The only one seemingly basing history on feelings is you. You figure that since some tribes viciously attacked other tribes it was the American governments position to herd all of them up and put them in lands that they had never been on. Their way of life was completely changed because our government wanted more land.

Don't claim other people are revisioning history when you are completely ignoring it.

That mere fact that you call them savages is yet another reason why it's pretty clear you are talking based on feelings rather than facts.

To believe in the basic christian concept would be to agree with one of its sub-religions. Whether you claim to be a member or not, your views are shared with an already established group. So to be an unorganized christian means that you believe in all of the doctrines and teachings, but you just don't want to go to church on sundays.

I didn't really mispeak, but my comments were not taken the way i had hoped. So I apologize for not making sense there. I wasn't really thinking when I was typing.

I was not trying to say that you must go to church or belong to a church to be a christian. But much like guillermo said, Christianity is an organized religion. One can like the philosophy of christianity and try to apply christ's guidelines to every day life without ever going to church. I agree with this. But christianity is not just a philosophy, it is a religion.

Because if you were to compare the basic do's of dont's of christianity to that of pretty much every other religion they would look the same. I am not speaking of specific little things, but rather things like treating your neighbor as you would like to be treated, and so on and so forth.

Every religion basically wants you to be a "good" person. So in my opinion, to like just the idea and message of christianity would make you like the idea of morality of humans more so than the subtle rules of a certain religion. So in reality wouldn't you see all religions as the same. Buddhism teaches us to be a good person, as does judaism, islam, etc. To not agree with the organized rituals of a certain church would suggest that you believe in some of the message, but not all. So if we are to pick and choose, why not pick and choose from religion to religion? Follow some parts of the qu'ran, some parts of the new testament, yada yada yada.

But of course that can be debated. While the definition of a christian claims that you do not technically have to belong to a monotheistic relgion, many christians would obviously disagree. Many christian religions believe you must be baptized to be considered a christian.

So it's all subjective. But overall I would agree that you don't have to go to church to believe in the christian principles. Shoot I haven't been to church in quite some time. Lol, that may mean I am going to hell, but I don't think it means i am not a christian. Which brings up another interesting point. You often hear catholics say they are lapsed catholics but i've never heard a protestant say they are a lapsed methodist, lutheran, baptist, etc. Might make for an interesting character study. It seems that catholicism uses gloom and doom scare tactics methodology while the newer christian religions are all about love and having fun.But again, just my humble opinion again though.

I can't speak for anyone else but these are some of the reasons why I consider myself a Christian:

I believe in the teachings of Jesus and try to follow them as best I can.

I do believe Jesus was the son of God as the Bible says.

I believe Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross to die for all our sins.

I believe Jesus was resurrected from his tomb and continued his teachings until he ascended into Heaven.

I believe, as Jesus preached, there is only one unforgivable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) but everything else we do in our lives is forgivable.

A lot of this goes against all basic human logic and reason and without faith, belief in any of this would be impossible. I have faith and that is why I believe. I have been humbled in my realization that I nor mankind in general holds all the answers and that there is a power greater than ourselves and that He loves us but I'm sure we prove a great disappointment with so much of our actions, behavior and our ignorance of His authority. I'm far from the perfect Christian and I can't say that if I were to die today that I would know for sure that I had a spot in Heaven. I have a lot learning and growing to do as a Christian and that is part of the journey of Christianity and every person's journey is unique.

There is also the definition of a christian as a way of life, to be Christ-like. Meaning, a person tries to live their life according to the teachings of Jesus. For example, loving your enemy, avoiding hypocrisy, helping the poor, etc but they put no emphasis on the spiritual aspect which includes honoring the Lord, your God, obeying the 10 commandments and the 11th commandment that Jesus proclaimed, etc. This is a good thing in so far as it means you seek to live your life as a good person but it does not expand into the deeper spiritual teachings of Jesus.

I am not fond of the term "religion" since it seems to divide rather than unite. Jesus faced opposition from many of the Jewish religious leaders and he was the most important Jewish leader to set foot to the soil of the Earth. I was turned away from Catholicism because I believed they put too much emphasis on religious practices and prayers that are not in the Bible but they treat them as if they were. Jesus never told us to pray to Mary or any of the Saints, He said we had to go through Him to get to God and he told us to read and follow His word.

I believe the Evangelical movement has opened up the door to the inclusion of many forms of Christianity united by their belief in Jesus as our Saviour. I have seen Baptists, Protestants, Lutherans, Catholics and who knows what other dialects of Christianity were there but I have been to worship services where they stand hand in hand and praise together. That is the way I think Jesus wanted us to be in the first place, united in our love and praise of the Lord.

"I was turned away from Catholicism because I believed they put too much emphasis on religious practices and prayers that are not in the Bible but they treat them as if they were. Jesus never told us to pray to Mary or any of the Saints"

Trust me I don't jive with everything catholicism teaches, but I feel this is the biggest misconception in catholicism. THis was something we were drilled on in catholic school.

Catholics do not pray to mary or the saints. We venerate them, It is just like keeping a picture of grandma in your wallet (regardless of whether she is still alive). Looking at the picture reminds us of weekends and grandma's house, homemade pie, and Christmas dinners long ago. Why not remind ourselves of those who lived saintly lives (as did Mary and the Saints)? They remind us how to live.

The other aspect, of course, is praying TO Mary and the Saints.

We do not worship mary, we ask for help. Like in the Novina.

"Pray for us sinners, at the hour of our death"

You may ask one of your friends to pray for you before you go into a major surgery, so why not ask the mother of God to do the same?

Again, it may be splitting hairs, but I'm just trying to give the catholic perspective.

mccookreader,

I understand your reasoning but I would never ask any of my dead friends to pray for me. I take seriously, what is written in the Bible (not saying you don't) especially, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me". -John 14:6 I don't seek out Mary to do something I can do for myself or confessing my sins to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus. I call it eliminating the middle man.

I also went to Catholic school and my experience was that there was indeed, more emphasis on memorizing repetitve prayers like the rosary and "venerating" Mary than there was on Jesus. Our religion class dealt more with what the saints did than what Jesus did. I just saw a lot of what, I felt, was a lot of unnecessary dogma and tradition that was not rooted in the Bible but more in what the Church established independently of the Bible. They left me with the impression that you have to go through a lot of red tape to have your prayers heard or be forgiven when I knew that wasn't what was in the Bible.

Of course, this was my experience and perhaps yours was better but I think we're both headed in the right direction.

My rhetoric is too harsh at times, I get caught up in the battle. In my own way, I have tried say what you pointed out about non-religion or atheism, becoming a religion into itself.

The modern day left, for lack of a better way to describe them, or what I deemed...The Emotionals, are highly religious in nature in the way they relate to their beliefs.

They believe their apostles of the environment of preachers of law, and they act according to their faith. I am not putting them down for this, I would just like them to admit it.

I suggest further that if religion has no place in schools, well okay, but why let the lefts religion into schools, simply because they do not call it a religion.

I am reminded of the Olympics in past decades. There was a time that the all of the Communists and Socialists, and Dictatorships cheated like crazy in the Olympics.

We in the West pretended like we were not aware of their cheating, and they pretended like they did not know we were pretending not to know they were cheating. But we all knew.

Same with the left. They cheat. They think their views are somehow so far above the rest of us, that they don't have to play by the rules.

So they drag their religious leftists views into schools, disguised as science. And we all have to act like we don't know what is going on.

If the leftists, the Emotionals don't want religion taught in schools, then they should stop doing it. They are the only ones who are prostylizing the kids.

Oh, Sam, it's only Monday and you're already preaching as only an emotionally loaded conservative with a good heart and a bad argument can. Public schools as John Dewey envisioned them were about learning by doing and thinking for one's self and being part of an ethical and moral society that was democratically purposeful. Of course, there's plenty of debate about what's moral or ethical (as you point out in your analogy to the Olympics -- and by the way, Americans have been known to cheat with drugs as swell as to maim -- remember Tonya Harding?) I still think most schools and teachers strive to introduce and to give both depth and breadth of knowledge in every subject domain. We continue to tinker with public education as we try to get it right for everybody. In fact, there's a great little book on this topic called Tinkering Toward Utopia: A Century of Public School Reform by David Tyack and Larry Cuban. You ought to read it. Those that care about schools are genuinely interested in improving the condition of schooling and the policies that govern public education. They are not interested in exercising what you've labeled as religion of the left or right or anything else. Furthermore, your argument undermines the other side of the equation: the power and intelligence kids and their families exercise in making sound judgments about what they read, see, hear, and learn. I would hope that young people become "productive and enlightened citizens," and not apostles in the world that you've argued we should live in on this blog--because then where would we be as a society?

The one thing that I take away from this website of blogs from mine and others is the way that those on the conservative side tell those on the liberals what the liberals believe and then proceed to also tell them just how wrong that is.

The only person who can tell me how I believe is myself and that's just something those like sam, g5, steffanie, MrsSmith, and others are just going to have to live with.

You want to believe in what you believe in? That's fine. I have no problems with that, that's what makes this country so great. But don't sit there in your glass house and pass judgement on those who don't agree with you as if you are the only ones that have the right answer. You don't and you know I don't either.

Here's another perspective that's quite intriguing. In his book, The Shack, the author, William Paul Young, depicts God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as a black woman, a Middle Eastern man, and an Asian woman. Young (the author) declares through Jesus's character, "I'm not too big on religion and not very fond of politics or economics either....they are the man-created trinity of terrors that ravages the earth and deceives those I care about." As I noted earlier, there is nothing simple about this conversation.