The Slacker Rebellion

Sam,

excellent blog post. What should be done with people like the woman and her baby in your story? Part of me says its crap that I have to pay taxes to support her and another part says its the christian thing to do. Then the question arises, am I being taken advantage of by the people who do this?

You ask alot of questions, I would be interested in your answers

The welfare issue has always been a quandry for me. On one hand, it vexes me that I have to give money so the government can give money to people so they can sit around doing nothing. On the other hand, I'm sure that there are many people who have a genuine need for aid, who aren't able to provide for themselves, or who have made mistakes but are trying to make up for them.

I'm not a statistics man, but I doubt that the numbers for both are far apart. Charity should never be forced. Forced charity is stained charity. That said, I wouldn't want to take welfare away to punish the lazy, while leaving the needy to suffer.

It's a sad quandry.

Aren't we all "ENSLAVED" on both ends!

Hey!You callen me a slacker?Haaa!Turn you phone on.

As far as I see it.Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions.I have helped a number of people out.Some get it and move on. Some just keep their hand out and never move on.If you can't help yourself after a little help for a friend I'm sorry.Too bad so sad.

The differences of opinion I typically see are this:

Republican: "Why should I have to pay for freeloaders?"

Democrat: "What about all of the people who genuinely need help and aren't freeloading?"

I don't think I've ever heard ANYONE claim that we should be supporting the people that are freeloading off of the welfare system. The difficulty is that it is an extraordinarily difficult task to separate the people who truly need help from those who are simply gaming the system.

I've seen many republicans say that the system should be torn down because of the freeloaders. While I have heard many democrats say the system should remain despite the freeloaders (for the sake of the truly needy)

And yes, it is a "christian duty" to help those in need. But I feel the same way, even though I am not a Christian. I think society has an obligation to care for needy. And as much as I hate to see my tax dollars support the lazy, I would never take it away from those who truly need it.

I have met both kinds of welfare recipients. And I am enraged when I see people gaming the system for free money. But I also have met many people who truly have fallen on hard times, and deserve a little help from society.

The news reported day before yesterday that there are 89,000 homeless folks in LA County California, but only 22,000 beds. Obviously local churches and aid societies are not able to handle the load and the government isn't doing it either. Sam made the comment that LA is a great place seemingly full of opportunity the other day, but for tens of thousands, that seems to be far from the truth.

National unemployment is well over 15% in some cities, with a national average approaching 8%. Here in Nebraska, layoffs are starting to effect the tri-cities area but there are insufficient positions available to cover the lost jobs. Nebraska went out of its way to attract business, but with an economic downturn now, there are going to problems.

Last week a Nebraska bank was shut down because they loaned farmers money on crop futures that the current price doesn't begin to cover. What happens next? I suppose the farmers may end up losing their farms being bought up by who knows who leaving more people looking for work. The auto giants seem to be ready to lay off another 50,000 people, so what are those workers going to do, and what do you imagine the ripple effect of 50,000 jobless workers are on the economy? Well, the tri-cities of Nebraska already are seeing impact from the auto industry slowdown.

A lot of folks around here seem to think that all people have to do is go to work to solve the problem, but if there isn't a job available, something's gotta give. Finding a job is tough to nearly impossible for millions of would be workers. People that have had good incomes for years are now income deprived with no end in site. If the government doesn't help these folks and churches and aid societies can't cover it either. what then?

Maybe the American people should be willing to downgrade their standard of living to the dark ages of non mechanized production and associated higher prices to put people back to work. As Sam mentioned sometime in the past, our poverty level folks are rich by some countries standards, so perhaps the answer is embracing poverty as a way of life? I hope not.

Venezuela last week empowered their "president" by removing term limits, and their current president was put in power because of the vast difference between the haves and have nots. That country is turning towards socialism because the have nots see the huge disparity and revolted to equal the playing field, and that seems to be what is happening here now. When there are more have nots than haves, and the haves got there by taking advantage and cheating the have nots, it's simple to see why.

Blame whoever you want, it won't change the situation we find ourselves in now, and pointing fingers does nothing but blame someone other than whichever "side" you are on for the fiasco. It's just not that simple no matter how you divey up the fault.

I agree with the spirit of your comment MrsSmith as it's pretty obvious how inefficient things are with our federal, state, and even local governments. I doubt we're in for much deregulation, unfortunately there are too many that take advantage of those situations.

Slackers....the question for me is, was this person placed in this position by circumstances out of thier control, or have they placed themselves in this position becuase they are lazy or they have a flawed thought process?? I do beleive in giving any man or woman a hand up when they are down. I do not beleive in giving any man or woman a hand out so they can stay right where they are.

I am a single father with 3 kids and I have been for many years. I have never received a welfare or unemployment check. There have been times when there wasnt quite enough, and times that I had to work rediculous amounts of overtime to make ends meet. So I know that it can be difficult, but it can be done.

The slackers that have mad poor choices, have had a history of making poor choices, or are just simply riding the system because it is easier, are the way they are because they have been allowed to stay that way. I have no problem giving a single mother or father a hand up in the way of temporary support and some skills assessment and improvement, after that, they need to be allowed to fall on thier faces like the rest of us. We cant allow the slackers to remain slackers.

jhat,

I would like to system some monitoring systems in place for these people to monitor progress. I would not expect everyone to put things in order at the same pace, and for some, effort and progress in all we can expect. But I would like to see them all at least try to help themselves. I have no problem giving my tax dollars to a man or woman that continues to put in a solid effort. But I have seen people turn down better jobs, because if they did, they would lose thier state benefits.

If they wont put in the effort, I would say, cut them off. There are 2 major causes for failure that I am aware of, cant do and wont do. If they cant, maybe we can give them the tools and training to get it done. If they wont, I have not use for them. I may be wrong, but that is my opinion.

buffroam,

we are not talking about people who cant get work, we are talking about people who wont get work, there is a difference. In the depression they could not get work, now some wont get work if they could. From what I have read on this thread most of the people are just trying to answer the question, "what can we do about people who live off the system for years and years".

And just how the hell do you know the above comments are from the "helpful souls" in mccook.

Now, having said that, I personally feel that if you need a hand up you should get it. The social programs are out there for everyone, if your sick of working just quit your job, have some kids and get on the government payroll. Secondly, some people like to think that these people on social programs are getting rich. The fact is they spend most of there welfare paying bills. So when I do work for someone on welfare and they pay me Im getting my money back and it gets put back into the system from where it was taken.

BuffRoam,

I can see what you are saying, and it makes sense to me. You have mentioned the poorest of the poor, who I am assuming are paying thier bill with taxpayer dollars. And I see mention of giving tax breaks to the wealthy does not work, I am assuming because the money does not make its way back into the economy. My biggest worry is the working man and woman in between. I am by no means a wealthy individual, all of the money I make supports my children and pays my bills. I have worked very hard for what I have and taken a great deal of pride in what I have and the humble lifestyle I have earned for my children and myself.

There is a single parent that lives very near my house that has 3 children a touch younger than mine. This individual works part time at slightly more than minimum wage. This individual drives a nicer car than I do. This individual does not pay rent, and they live in a nicer home than I do. I was recently behind this individual in the check out line at the supermarket, I watched the cashier ring up over $400 worth of groceries that were mostly convenience type meals, and it was all paid for with an EBT card. This person spoke to me some time ago about an exciting job offer that would pay 40K per year with benefits, in the same conversation I was told that this job was not a consideration because it would stop or severely reduce the public assistance.

I get paid every 2 weeks, my paycheck is missing hundreds of dollars for taxes, health insurance, and dental insurance. I have no problem with that when I see an individual that has recently been laid off using my tax dollars to get themselves in a position to jump back into the race. I get angry when I see an individual riding the system because it is the easiest route. I could really use some of my tax dollars back so I could upgrade my car, or my home. The middle class are living on a thin margin, and most of the people I have talked to would gladly help anyone in need of a hand up. But dont take my money and give it to a slacker that is only waiting for a hand out. Take the money from Warren Buffet...he's got enough.

Gimmie a break. There is a REAL difference in those in need because an actual calamity has befallen them, and those in need because they party, quit school, make stupid decisions, and expect government to bail them out.

I get such a kick out of you libs and your whole name calling bit. After eight years of Bush bashing, I'm shocked that you would even dare to open your mouth to chastise anyone for name calling.

Bush and the Republicans gave in to the hysterical, name calling, lazy, ineffective, anti-American, anti-military, anti-God left, and their willing pals in the Media. So in that sense, the left bullied Bush almost the whole time he was in office.

But you leftists got what you want, a flaming radical, with a chip on his shoulder, Mr. Obama. I wonder how many more years you can blame Bush for everything. It is going to get old, if it hasn't gotten old already.

You guys are just insane with this "tax cuts for the rich" dogma. That gets old too. The Democrats, liberals, and general all leftists, want everybody to be equally poor. I don't. This is still America, I know you'd like to turn it into some third world Socialist Utopia, but in ain't gonna happen.

Obama's over-reaching, over-spending, hateful and rookie like administration is already building up the conservatives. We learned from the Bush Years, and when you guys are done with your little Socialist experiment, we'll have to come in and clean up your messes, just like always.

Oh yeah, I say this with peace and love and joy and flowers just overflowing baby.

Sam,

You sound a little overstressed. I suggest you go for a walk or go to the YMCA and get a little exercise.

Sam,

You come back here yelling about how there is a difference between slackers and deserving people after EVERYONE has come to the consensus that the slackers don't deserve the money, but the needy do? Are you just trying to bait people?

It seemed to me that the conversation between bigdawg, buffroam, seentoomuch, and guillermo was VERY civil and productive (and close to reaching a consensus) until you came back in ranting about radical socialism.

And I don't even know if you were being sarcastic with your "peace love and joy" comment. But it reminds me of the preface "with all due respect".

It allows you to say disrespectful/angry things while pretending to retain a veneer of respect.

For instance, "I say this with all due respect... you have the IQ of a soap dish"

(not referring to you sam, just an example)

We argue about what is compassion.

Liberals might argue that it is compassionate to give a poor man a meal.

Conservatives, like me, argue that we need to teach the man to feed himself.

Which is actually the more compassionate?

I would argue that teachng the man to feed himself is more compassionate.

Whenever we try and talk to the left about these things, the first thing the left does, is go extreme. "What about....?" And then you hear the worse story of awful circumstances, and it portrayed like I don't want to help unfortunates. So we spend Trillions to help allot folks that don't need it, when a billion bucks spent for actual hurting folks would do.

It is not the folks who really need help that are the problem, it is the people who get help that are very capable of taking care of themselves.

They corrupt the "help system".

Every time we bring up the baby murder issue (you call it abortion, I call it baby murder) the left immediately goes extreme again, and you hear the "what about the thirteen year old girl raped by the mean step dad with AIDS? You gonna make her...blah blah blah".

Again, we kill millions of babies because of a few difficult pregnancies?

Of course we do, because liberals are in charge.

No one is for abortion, no one likes it. The question you should be asking yourself, is abortion a legal issue or a moral one? Can the government legislate morality? If the government can legislate morality why dont they just outlaw premartial sex? Or better yet, lets invite them into our bedrooms and pass a law that sex without the intent of reproduction is illegal? Personally, I think abortion is no good but Im not comfortable telling others how to live.