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President Obama's SpeechPosted Monday, September 7, 2009, at 8:52 PM
For those that will not be able to or allowed to watch President Obama's speech on Tuesday, the following is the full text of his speech.
Taken from http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources... Prepared Remarks of President Barack Obama Back to School Event Arlington, Virginia September 8, 2009
The President: Hello everyone -- how's everybody doing today? I'm here with students at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia. And we've got students tuning in from all across America, kindergarten through twelfth grade. I'm glad you all could join us today. I know that for many of you, today is the first day of school. And for those of you in kindergarten, or starting middle or high school, it's your first day in a new school, so it's understandable if you're a little nervous. I imagine there are some seniors out there who are feeling pretty good right now, with just one more year to go. And no matter what grade you're in, some of you are probably wishing it were still summer, and you could've stayed in bed just a little longer this morning. I know that feeling. When I was young, my family lived in Indonesia for a few years, and my mother didn't have the money to send me where all the American kids went to school. So she decided to teach me extra lessons herself, Monday through Friday -- at 4:30 in the morning.
Now I wasn't too happy about getting up that early. A lot of times, I'd fall asleep right there at the kitchen table. But whenever I'd complain, my mother would just give me one of those looks and say, "This is no picnic for me either, buster." So I know some of you are still adjusting to being back at school. But I'm here today because I have something important to discuss with you. I'm here because I want to talk with you about your education and what's expected of all of you in this new school year. Now I've given a lot of speeches about education. And I've talked a lot about responsibility. I've talked about your teachers' responsibility for inspiring you, and pushing you to learn. I've talked about your parents' responsibility for making sure you stay on track, and get your homework done, and don't spend every waking hour in front of the TV or with that Xbox. I've talked a lot about your government's responsibility for setting high standards, supporting teachers and principals, and turning around schools that aren't working where students aren't getting the opportunities they deserve. But at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world -- and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. Unless you show up to those schools; pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed. And that's what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself. Every single one of you has something you're good at. Every single one of you has something to offer. And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. That's the opportunity an education can provide. Maybe you could be a good writer -- maybe even good enough to write a book or articles in a newspaper -- but you might not know it until you write a paper for your English class. Maybe you could be an innovator or an inventor -- maybe even good enough to come up with the next iPhone or a new medicine or vaccine -- but you might not know it until you do a project for your science class. Maybe you could be a mayor or a Senator or a Supreme Court Justice, but you might not know that until you join student government or the debate team. And no matter what you want to do with your life -- I guarantee that you'll need an education to do it. You want to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a police officer? You want to be a nurse or an architect, a lawyer or a member of our military? You're going to need a good education for every single one of those careers. You can't drop out of school and just drop into a good job. You've got to work for it and train for it and learn for it. And this isn't just important for your own life and your own future. What you make of your education will decide nothing less than the future of this country. What you're learning in school today will determine whether we as a nation can meet our greatest challenges in the future.
You'll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You'll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You'll need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy. We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don't do that -- if you quit on school -- you're not just quitting on yourself, you're quitting on your country. Now I know it's not always easy to do well in school. I know a lot of you have challenges in your lives right now that can make it hard to focus on your schoolwork. I get it. I know what that's like. My father left my family when I was two years old, and I was raised by a single mother who struggled at times to pay the bills and wasn't always able to give us things the other kids had. There were times when I missed having a father in my life. There were times when I was lonely and felt like I didn't fit in. So I wasn't always as focused as I should have been. I did some things I'm not proud of, and got in more trouble than I should have. And my life could have easily taken a turn for the worse. But I was fortunate. I got a lot of second chances and had the opportunity to go to college, and law school, and follow my dreams. My wife, our First Lady Michelle Obama, has a similar story. Neither of her parents had gone to college, and they didn't have much. But they worked hard, and she worked hard, so that she could go to the best schools in this country. Some of you might not have those advantages. Maybe you don't have adults in your life who give you the support that you need. Maybe someone in your family has lost their job, and there's not enough money to go around. Maybe you live in a neighborhood where you don't feel safe, or have friends who are pressuring you to do things you know aren't right. But at the end of the day, the circumstances of your life -- what you look like, where you come from, how much money you have, what you've got going on at home -- that's no excuse for neglecting your homework or having a bad attitude. That's no excuse for talking back to your teacher, or cutting class, or dropping out of school. That's no excuse for not trying. Where you are right now doesn't have to determine where you'll end up. No one's written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make your own future. That's what young people like you are doing every day, all across America. Young people like Jazmin Perez, from Roma, Texas. Jazmin didn't speak English when she first started school. Hardly anyone in her hometown went to college, and neither of her parents had gone either. But she worked hard, earned good grades, got a scholarship to Brown University, and is now in graduate school, studying public health, on her way to being Dr. Jazmin Perez. I'm thinking about Andoni Schultz, from Los Altos, California, who's fought brain cancer since he was three. He's endured all sorts of treatments and surgeries, one of which affected his memory, so it took him much longer -- hundreds of extra hours -- to do his schoolwork. But he never fell behind, and he's headed to college this fall. And then there's Shantell Steve, from my hometown of Chicago, Illinois. Even when bouncing from foster home to foster home in the toughest neighborhoods, she managed to get a job at a local health center; start a program to keep young people out of gangs; and she's on track to graduate high school with honors and go on to college. Jazmin, Andoni and Shantell aren't any different from any of you. They faced challenges in their lives just like you do. But they refused to give up. They chose to take responsibility for their education and set goals for themselves. And I expect all of you to do the same. That's why today, I'm calling on each of you to set your own goals for your education -- and to do everything you can to meet them. Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class, or spending time each day reading a book. Maybe you'll decide to get involved in an extracurricular activity, or volunteer in your community. Maybe you'll decide to stand up for kids who are being teased or bullied because of who they are or how they look, because you believe, like I do, that all kids deserve a safe environment to study and learn. Maybe you'll decide to take better care of yourself so you can be more ready to learn. And along those lines, I hope you'll all wash your hands a lot, and stay home from school when you don't feel well, so we can keep people from getting the flu this fall and winter. Whatever you resolve to do, I want you to commit to it. I want you to really work at it. I know that sometimes, you get the sense from TV that you can be rich and successful without any hard work -- that your ticket to success is through rapping or basketball or being a reality TV star, when chances are, you're not going to be any of those things. But the truth is, being successful is hard. You won't love every subject you study. You won't click with every teacher. Not every homework assignment will seem completely relevant to your life right this minute. And you won't necessarily succeed at everything the first time you try. That's OK. Some of the most successful people in the world are the ones who've had the most failures. JK Rowling's first Harry Potter book was rejected twelve times before it was finally published. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team, and he lost hundreds of games and missed thousands of shots during his career. But he once said, "I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." These people succeeded because they understand that you can't let your failures define you -- you have to let them teach you. You have to let them show you what to do differently next time. If you get in trouble, that doesn't mean you're a troublemaker, it means you need to try harder to behave. If you get a bad grade, that doesn't mean you're stupid, it just means you need to spend more time studying. No one's born being good at things, you become good at things through hard work. You're not a varsity athlete the first time you play a new sport. You don't hit every note the first time you sing a song. You've got to practice. It's the same with your schoolwork. You might have to do a math problem a few times before you get it right, or read something a few times before you understand it, or do a few drafts of a paper before it's good enough to hand in. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask for help when you need it. I do that every day. Asking for help isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength. It shows you have the courage to admit when you don't know something, and to learn something new. So find an adult you trust -- a parent, grandparent or teacher; a coach or counselor -- and ask them to help you stay on track to meet your goals. And even when you're struggling, even when you're discouraged, and you feel like other people have given up on you -- don't ever give up on yourself. Because when you give up on yourself, you give up on your country. The story of America isn't about people who quit when things got tough. It's about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best. It's the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation. Students who sat where you sit 75 years ago who overcame a Depression and won a world war; who fought for civil rights and put a man on the moon. Students who sat where you sit 20 years ago who founded Google, Twitter and Facebook and changed the way we communicate with each other. So today, I want to ask you, what's your contribution going to be? What problems are you going to solve? What discoveries will you make? What will a president who comes here in twenty or fifty or one hundred years say about what all of you did for this country? Your families, your teachers, and I are doing everything we can to make sure you have the education you need to answer these questions. I'm working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn. But you've got to do your part too. So I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do. I expect great things from each of you. So don't let us down -- don't let your family or your country or yourself down. Make us all proud. I know you can do it. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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In other unbelievably extraordinary news, a Republican had something positive to say about the president...
"I think he is [doing a good job]," Bush said when asked to assess Obama's job performance. "I think he has got a lot on his plate, and he has tackled a lot to start with, and that has probably made it more difficult."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/l...
And just why did the extreme right rally their base
against students being "forced" to watch this speech? By no means is it Obama's greatest speech, but it does stress personal responsibility in determining ones future. And that is what has made America great past, present, and will in the future.
Great personal attacks there Mr. Eldridge. But that's what you do best isn't it? Honestly is this how you treat your children or grandchildren when they something you don't agree with call them nasty little names and make lude, crass, nasty jokes about them?
Maybe you should do some research and read what former First Lady Laura Bush has to say about this speech.
I'm sorry for the attack on Mr. Eldridge but his attack on ontheleftcoast was just way out of bounds.
But his attack is a perfect example of what happens when you can't actually refute what a person has said, go after their intelligence and just for good measure attack their family.
Sceptre, it's really frightening that you consider personal responsibility, staying in school, getting good grades, being a good citizen, and having high goals for yourself to be empty and worn out topics.
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/7...
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/p...
I love the way the libs and their media bootlickers continually whine about the speech while ignoring the PROBLEM.
READ THE LESSON PLANS.
I don't know, maybe it's because I am a teacher but I see nothing wrong with these lesson plans. They are educational. If you want to see it as indoctrination than that's your choice. I don't see it as a problem But as it has been stated time and time again and a fact that you completely ignored MrsSmith is that these lesson plans were optional, meaning the teacher didn't have to use them. Talk about ignoring.
I find it interesting that you consider calling out an obvious attempt by the far right to stifle the freedom of speech of the president, whining. If you are so closed minded that you think it is absolutely acceptable to disrespect the president because of your political ideology, that's something you have to reconcile. Last time I checked this was OUR country, not YOUR country.
omg!! g.i. and mike giving credit to the former administration for anything. mike, you should be very careful chastising anyone for disrespecting the president. maybe you have changed your ways, but i have read your and g.i.'s posts, any oh so many other liberals and leftists using so many disparaging remarks concerning President Bush and his intellectual abilities.
How is it that being one of hundreds of basketball players or reality stars is unrealistic but being one of nine Supreme Court Justices is more realistic? There more NBA players than Senators and nearly as many Representatives in Congress. At least there are thousands of mayors but that's not even a career.
Of course, the funniest thing about this is that he says basketball isn't a realistic goal but then goes on to use Michael Jordan as an example of sticking to reaching your goals. So what are all the kids who dreamed of being basketball stars supposed to think?
It looks like he's putting single teenage mothers on notice too. If they decide they can't handle work, school and a baby then they have quit on their country. If you have low self-esteem then you have given up on your country. I'm sure they feel better about themselves already.
mccook1 proving once again that nothing the president does is good enough.
doodle bug I have the utmost respect for former President George W. Bush. I didn't agree with a lot of his decisions but I respected him. He did a job most of us could never do. Having said that I always respected and admired Laura Bush. She always spoke from her heart and her mind and used both equally. I guess you would be surprised about people giving credit to those with different ideologies.
Yeah, seriously McCook1, that was about as nit-picky as you can get. You say he is putting teenage mothers on notice, but if he came out with a message like: "its okay teenage mothers, you are doing your best, and your government will support you," I suppose that would be unacceptable also.
I have heard about every Rep. on this board talk about how they absolutely LOVE personal responsibility: Jesus, money, and personal responsibility. If this speech came out of the mouth of a criminal Republican like Reagan I am beyond certain the bleeting from the right would be more positive.
That was an excellent speech. Perfect rhetorical choice for such a large age range of intended listeners. Simple, honest, powerful, and digestible for everyone. Indeed Obama talks a good game, and he embodies everything he just talked about...in a word perseverance.
Now back to health care reform. It is right around the corner folks.
G.I.
He is speaking to kids and this speech with its contradictions is a great way to keep them confused about what they think the President really wants them to do. Especially the younger kids who don't understand rhetoric and actually think the President means what he says.
"but if he came out with a message like: "its okay teenage mothers, you are doing your best, and your government will support you," I suppose that would be unacceptable also."
Actually, that would be great and I'd expect him to back it up. Unfortunately, that's the exact opposite of the stance he took in this speech.
If you want to get defensive about me pointing out the contradictions and inconsistencies of a poorly written speech delivered by the President, so be it. It's really neither here nor there to me. However, the President does have a responsibility to understand who he is speaking to and the impact it could have on his audience and a lot of the dropouts are single teenage mothers. That's just a fact and should be considered before you tell kids they are giving up on their country. Of course, he's the President so I guess you want to ignore the egrecious parts of the speech and pretend like they don't exist.
Overall, the speech is a mediocre attempt to get kids more involved in their schoolwork which is good and I'm not arguing that part of the speech. This is still the President of the United States speaking to the next generation and telling even one kid they gave up on their country is unacceptable. Even you should demand better than that. That's not nit-picking, that's pointing out the words of the President that have a very real chance to belittle and undermine the self-confidence of kids who are forced by life's circumstances to make decisions that they already regret.
McCook1,
I disagree...the speech was not poorly conceived, poorly written, or poorly delivered. In fact I think it was just the opposite.
The idea that he is addressing is that kids may believe that they can make a bunch of money and be famous without the hard work necessary to achieve that level of success. The message was not confusing, and I am certain that your overblown analysis wouldn't occur to many of the viewers/listeners simply because there is intuitive validity in the connection between applying yourself to your education and the chances for success in life. Even if you don't like the way Obama phrased it, the sentiment is not confusing.
The truth of the matter is that by not finishing high school kids are more susceptible to crime and therefore incarceration, which certainly does affect our country. If students are not able to participate in our democracy, if they are not able to contribute to the economy, if they are stuck permanently on welfare because they decided their education was not important, then they most certainly have failed themselves and their country.
"Actually, that would be great and I'd expect him to back it up. Unfortunately, that's the exact opposite of the stance he took in this speech."
So wait, now you are advocating for government supporting single mothers? I am glad you have agreed with me, I too support a welfare ("government support") system that helps struggling families. But according to you Obama does not want to "support" these people. That confuses me because you so constantly argue against Obama helping the unfortunate through "government support" (see our "general welfare" debates).
Hmm, could it be he is advocating for single mothers to follow the example of his own mother and make hard work a priority, make family a priority, AND all the while emboldening government support systems (welfare, health care, etc) in order to make their struggle easier? Yes I think so.
When Bush spoke to students, Democrats investigated, held hearings
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...
when President George H.W. Bush delivered a similar speech on October 1, 1991, from Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington DC, the controversy was just beginning. Democrats, then the majority party in Congress, not only denounced Bush's speech -- they also ordered the General Accounting Office to investigate its production and later summoned top Bush administration officials to Capitol Hill for an extensive hearing on the issue.
snip
The National Education Association denounced the speech, saying it "cannot endorse a president who spends $26,000 of taxpayers' money on a staged media event
..................
I guess you don't recall this little incident, Mike? How about you, GI? Or was that "all different?"
.............
I'm glad you took the time to read the lesson plans, Mike...and not surprised that you see no problem with the overt Obama-worship contained in them. Or the "suggestion" that teachers should post excerpts of Obama's speeches (only Obama's speeches) all over their classrooms.
After reading that propaganda, you'd almost have to believe that this is the first president that even noticed the schools.
In fact, after reading the lesson plans, you'd have to wonder if we've ever had ANY other president!!
Face it, if our last president had broadcast an identical speech...with identical lesson plans...you and the rest of the liberals in this country would have held anti-speech demonstrations, filed law suits, and raved in newspaper columns endlessly.
Actually, Mrs. Smith, the former Presidents Reagan and both Bushes as well as Clinton occasionally took time out to address students (though, in true GOP form, their speeches-Reagan's especially-were much more politicized).
I tend to appreciate Presidents that really focus on students and education (perhaps because I am an educator myself). Our nation could be so much stronger if more of the policies being imposed on schools stemmed from sound research rather than giant publishing conglomerates and politicians pushing programs to satisfy voters over students. Unfortunately, Republicans like to cut spending on education so that they can build bigger bombs and fund tax cuts. Screwy.
So, while I do think Bush was an awful leader, especially in terms of foreign policy where he really failed miserably, I do appreciate when any President takes the time to highlight education, and demonstrate just how important the institution is to the vitality of our nation.
Clearly Mrs. Smith you have no clue what goes on in a classroom. The speech was the focus of the lesson plans. You wouldn't see a math teacher posting pictures of hectagons and squares when they are teaching algebra. It's called focus.
Honestly I don't remember all the hubbub that was going on with George H.W. Bush. I remember seeing him television. I didn't agree with the investigations into George W. Bush's speech to children.
Maybe you should ask (as we all should) what the person's opinion is before you assume to know what they did or how they felt.
Honestly Mrs. Smith if former president Bush had gone about educating the youth as President Obama is I would have applauded him.
And clearly you were reading WAY to much into the lesson plans. When you try as hard as you are to find something wrong you always will.
No, I think it stems from a genuine interest in our students who are struggling after 8 years of education cuts and the ridiculously counter-intuitive NCLB that took money AWAY from the schools that needed it most.
Obama's fiscal policy so far has been: stop the country from sinking into an even greater depression than the great depression...and it seems to be working. I will make you a promise Steff, if Obama does not do as promised, and stop deficit spending once the economy and job markets are back, and if he doesn't start making serious and logical moves to reduce our debt, I will go out and join a tea bag party with you and cry SOCIALISM every time he so much as buys a hamburger from a Mickey D's.
"This speech hubbub is pure smoke and mirror..."
The "speech hub bub" was instigated by the right dearest Steffanie. In fact, every time he does something new, everyone on the right seems to scurry like diseased rats to whatever new act has offended Rush or Beck. That is how obviously superficial you and Sham and Sceptre are, you cannot stay focused on anything. Stop listening to Limbaugh for a week. Educate YOURSELVES on an issue, and then form an opinion. You three need some serious practice at this very normal activity.
"everyone on the right"? "Sham"?
Yes, it makes absoulute sense to tell kids they probably won't be successful at basketball and then do a complete 180 using Michael Jordan as an example of why they can be successful at what they love. There's absolutely no contradiction there as long as you don't think too hard about what the President is saying and I suppose that's all he's really asked of any of his supporters.
No one has said that kids shouldn't finish school so that's an argument you'll just have to have with yourself. I would tell kids they should finish school but I would never condemn the ones who don't finish or can't finish and chastise them publicly by saying they gave up on their country. If you think there's a no problem with telling kids they've given up on their country because they couldn't finish school then we'll just have to leave it there because that is indefensible.
In our "general welfare" debates my arguments were centered around the legal authority of the term which a separate matter entirely. I'm assuming that must be another one of those arguments you thought you were having with me but, in reality, you were only arguing with yourself.
I have no doubt that his mother was a strong influence on his decision to put a priority on education since that was her priority throughout her life. However, as important as education is, I could never leave my kid to pursue my education in another country. That's just me though.
McCook1,
"...it makes absoulute sense to tell kids they probably won't be successful at basketball and then do a complete 180 using Michael Jordan as an example of why they can be successful at what they love."
That makes about as much sense as YOUR reducing the entire speech to that point of contention.
"No one has said that kids shouldn't finish school so that's an argument you'll just have to have with yourself."
It would be more interesting and productive than having it with you.
"...then we'll just have to leave it there because that is indefensible."
I think that there are certainly plenty of examples of people who did not finish high school and went on to have very successful lives. But this is not the reality for the majority of drop-outs, and these kids once they are adults really do have a tangibly negative affect on other important institutions, such as prison systems and police forces. But I will agree to disagree.
"I'm assuming that must be another one of those arguments you thought you were having with me but, in reality, you were only arguing with yourself."
That must be why it was so intriguing. Interesting though, so if you were arguing against the legality of "supporting the general welfare," isn't that also a de facto argument
against "supporting the "general welfare?" You weren't, as I recall, advocating for Democrats to break any laws to accomplish the kinds of support that might ameliorate the general welfare. Silly McCook1.
Oh Steffanie, what vim! I responded quite specifically to your post from 2:29pm, and when I said you couldn't focus on any one thing for very long I was referring to the fact that now you are focused, like most other superficial Republicans with a brain like a chicken on speed, on trying to find some new horrible thing Obama has done, when the fact is, the only results this country has seen early on in Obama's admin. have been improvements in the stock market. People keep talking about "wait a few months from now and everything will be destroyed," but the reality is, things are trending upward across America.
Health care reform is a contentious issue and it's important to many Americans. It is a tough political world and public opinion makes a big difference on this one. Hopefully a smart and logical bill will pass and pass soon and Obama can get back to other the ten things he has to fix in this country thanks to 8 years of ineptitude.
Doodle,
You are right, that should have been put, "SO MANY on the right scurry like diseased rats..."
And "Sham" is a term of endearment. He is an Imerican fighting hero from a long proud line of heroes in my newly inspired book series entitled "The Sham Smellridge Chronicles."
Yes dearest Steffanie, trending upward. Under whose watch do you think the debt grew to the astronomical proportion it is at now? It certainly wasn't Obama in the last 8 months. Every economic whiz in the country was screaming for a stimulus bill to shock the economy into action. Smartly, Obama heeded the advice of every trustworthy person who understands the history of huge government expenditures on infrastructure (military or otherwise) and what these huge expenditures do to the economy. Nobody said the stimulus was a silver bullet, and NO ONE advertised a fast and speedy recovery. But the signs are out there dearest Steffanie, and as I posted before, you don't have to believe me, but The Wall Street Journal has a pretty good reputation...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12518537...
A quote from former Speaker of the House, Neutered Gingrich, "I recommend it to everyone."
Nuff said.
Just in the last few weeks these are the manufactured "controversies" conceived by the far right:
Obama's Czars. Reagan initiated the Czars and there were no complaints about Czars under him or the Bush's. Under Obama it suddenly has become a problem. It is interesting that their chief complaint is that the Czars have no oversight and not approved by Congress. Funny how they didn't have a problem with Bush appointing Bolton to the UN during a recess.
Whether or not he was circumsized
He was going to indoctrinate the children by encouraging them to stay in school and get good grades. Funny how a couple of years ago anyone who disagreed with Bush was clearly anti American but Obama's use of failing the country if you drop out is just as McCook put it "indefensible". Anyone who actually watched the speech knew what he was actually talking about.
Lesson Plans that were suggested use for teachers being the main tool of indoctrination. Must be the first time in history that someone attempting indoctrination has asked those he was planning to indoctrinate whether he could or not.
Obama taking a week for vacation even though the previous president took a month of vacation in the same time frame.
Something else will come down the pike pretty quick. Notice how quiet the far right became when it became apparent that most Americans actually favored Obama speaking to the children. Even more so after several prominent Republicans came out in support of the speech.
Three years of an eight year term is hardly what one would call dominating Sceptre.
I've noticed recently some usage of the term Marxist or some saying that Marx himself would be proud of the ultra liberal some of you believe Obama to be.
Unfortunately that is out of context and very untrue. Marx hated ultra liberals because he saw them as keeping the current system of government running. Though the policies that came out of Marxism (communism and socialism) were primarily left wing, Marx himself believed that a true revolution would only come when the workers themselves rose up against the government.
Workers in European society tended to be conservative and anti government. These were the people that Marx envisioned would lead the world in revolution and have governments truly run by the people.
Sceptre another point of contention. You say that Congress spends the money not the president, but thanks to checks and balances the president can veto any bill that he deems not to the best interest of America. President Bush didn't use the veto until 2006 when he vetoed Stem Cell Research. As far as I remember he never once vetoed any spending bills passed by the Republican or Democratic controlled Congress.
"Watch out, anarchy and civil war are likely to return. Obama is incompetent, and an empty shirt."
Thus the end of the radical-right wing the criminals Nixon and Reagan worked so hard to cultivate and nurture. Good riddance. Seriously, we will be better off without that segment of America.
Just to expand on the point of control of Congress that Sceptre believes the Democrats had primarily had during the eight years of Bush.
There is a neat little graph here that illustrates the exact opposite of Sceptre's claim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divis...
I understand that this info is coming from Wikipedia but the numbers are correct.
From 1995-2007 Democrats had one majority in the Senate and that was from 2001-January 2003 when, with a 50-50 tie Jim Jeffords left the Republican Party and became Independent leaving the Democrats with a 50-49 lead. Republicans won the next election (November 2002) and held the majority until 2007. Democrats held the majority in the Senate under Bush for about 3 years.
When we look at the House, it is a completely different story. Republicans won the majority in the election of 1994 and took control in January 1995 and did not lose control of the House until the election of 2006 (costing them the majority in January of 2007). So when you look at those numbers not only did Republicans hold power in the House for all but one year of Bush's 8-year term, the held it for 6 of Clinton's 8 years in office.
When you look at the numbers you can clearly see that the Democratic Party was not even close to being primarily or remotely in control of Congress during Bush's 8 year term.
The way I look at your presumption that Obama will be kicked out of office for some (more than likely) cooked up reasons, I say, if Bush doesn't get kicked out of office for sending thousands of our men and women to die in an unjust and illegal war, or he doesn't get kicked out for giving the go ahead to ignore the Geneva Conventions or for that matter breaking the laws of the United Stated on torture, then no one is getting kicked out of office anytime soon.
By the way as a last adendum for the three years that the Democrats controlled the Senate during Bush's term, the first was 50-49 with 1 independent caucusing with the Democrats. The next two years was 49-49 with two independents caucusing with the Democrats.
Please, what is a yute?
Steffanie my dear, I hate to point this out to you, but I didn't accuse you of supporting Bush's spend crazy admin. I merely suggest a set of economic circumstances that made it necessary for Obama to spend huge amounts of money despite an enormous amount of criticism, and the point of suggesting that set of circumstances was to demonstrate how things are trending upward economically now.
mike, as a favor to me, will you give me your definition of "torture". i'm doing a little experiment of my own. you may use the dictionary but please dont quote it verbatim.
"Nothing necessitates bankrupting the nation..."
That is what you are not understanding Steffanie, the country would have slipped into a possibly unrecoverable depression and bankruptcy would likely have been the outcome. With the stimulus plan (much like the huge government spending of WWII when our debt was outrageous) our economy is recovering, the housing market is coming back, the auto industry and banks are more stable, and only now can we begin to pay back those loans. Hence, things are trending upward.
I am not sure what you mean by "evil liberal friends" or "blood on [my] hands" but I can assure that as the economy recovers our debts will inevitably have to be paid back...ergo the debt will be reduced. So long as Obama does what he says he will and balance the budget in such a way that we stop deficit spending, reducing the national debt will take some time, but it will not take generations. Many of the zanier Republicans out there have bought into to this nightmarish fairytale propagated NOT by experts but rather by mouthpieces like Beck and Rush...whose expertise only differs from yours or mine in that that they have a bigger audience listening to them.
My definition of torture is any act that brings intended physical or mental pain to the person it is directed to in order to get information out of that person.
Things I consider to be torture are: waterboarding, electrocution, sleep deprevation, threatening a person that if they don't give up information their entire family will be killed.
I also believe that enhanced interrogation techniques is nothing more than torture. One of the things this nation is really great at, at leas with language (and both sides practice in it) is changing something that has a bad connotation to it to make it sound not nearly as bad.
Hmm, I disagree with your opinion on the matter Steffanie, but luckily neither of us knows the outcome yet. The future could be ponies pooping rainbows; or it could be right-wing fanatics preempting the apocalypse, neither one of us knows. But when the opportunity presents itself, I will try not to go overboard in rubbing in how wrong you are.
A civilized person would use a pooper-scooper or plastic bag there Sceptre, but thank you for once again demonstrating why you don't belong in a civilized discussion.
That was quite a stretch Steffanie, you can do better than that.
"My definition of torture is any act that brings intended physical or mental pain to the person it is directed to in order to get information out of that person."
OH MY GOD!!!!! I've just realized my dear departed Irish Mother was a TORTURER, she laid so many guilt trips on me to get information that I felt horrible about all the things I'd ever done.
"A civilized person would use a pooper-scooper or plastic bag there Sceptre, but thank you for once again demonstrating why you don't belong in a civilized discussion."
So is a civilized war only one in which the people fighting have a barrier that keeps them from being close to the people they kill and protects them from the debris?
SW,
What are you talking about?
Guillermo:
Your response to Scepters comment about the unclean nature of war was that civilized men seek a way to sanitize or protect themselves from the inherent filth involved. So what is a civilized, and therefore clean, war? Or was I reading too much into your answer and you really only meant to discuss the appropriate manner in which to clean up feces?
Or did you mean my joke about my mother, Dick Cheney's secret agent? If that is the case see my post a few days ago about everyone needing to lighten up.
My intention was more to point out the stupidity in Scepter's simile between fighting a clean war and picking up dog feces with your bare hands. Although your interpretation is interesting.
I guess modern war, with precision weapons and unmanned drones, high-tech field hospitals, laws against torture, more stringent rules of engagement, and smaller units who have duel roles as fighters and ambassadors, certainly seems more sanitized--at least relatively, wouldn't you agree?
Let me be sure I understand so that I can put this "clean war" thing in proper perspective.
The United States must fight wars with precision bombs, little to no collateral damage, no forceful way of obtaining information from captured terrorists and our soldiers must be trained in the proper "rules of engagement" while fighting terrorists that will behead every American they can kidnap, fly planes into office buildings, recruit women and children to be suicide bombers and threaten death to all Americans at every waking moment?
I wonder what the Vegas odds would be on that.